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Old 11-06-2013   #201
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

a bad situation, but there are some good discussions resulting from it. depression and mental illness, bullying, acceptable social norms, and many others. hopefully these talks will help bring about some change for the better. i dont think much of that applies in this situation though, because ...

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
The normal "rules of engagement" for dealing with typical bullies do not apply or work with sociopaths.

And this is where I think the story has become lost in translation. Incognito was more than just a bully. Dude crossed so many lines that his behavior goes into the category of mental depravity. This kind of mind does not hear reason, does not respond to respect, does not back down in confrontation or even getting his own ass kicked in.

Johnathan Martin's teammates have said he has stood up for himself and fought other linemen. Dude is not the wimp he's being portrayed.
incognito is nuckin futs. if i said a year ago that a headline would read "richie incognito torments teammate to the point of quitting", anyone who wouldnt have believed it would lose ten common sense points. without ever giving the victim a name, it was a very plausible and probably scenario. martin just happened to be the victim's name.

if i said in 10 years a headline will read "richie incognito arrested on suspicion of double homicide". will you be surprised? of course not, and again a victim's name isnt required because it could be anybody. what's going to happen when he doesnt have 300lb manliest of men to let his mental instability out on? what happens when he runs out of money? he's already stealing from teammates, he's going to have to fund his lifestyle somehow and i doubt it's going to be by working at home depot. dude is a sociopath and a danger to anyone around him.
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Old 11-06-2013   #202
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.
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Old 11-06-2013   #203
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I just feel the need to point out that Antonio Smith has stood up to Incognito several times in his career, dating back to his time with the Cards. Hasn't stopped Incognito from being a bully toward him. In fact, not only did it not stop Incognito, but a significant segment of the NFL watching populace considered Smith's retaliation unacceptable, and he was fined and suspended for it. So for his efforts, Smith lost money, the team lost a player for a game, and he still has to deal with Incognito.

Yeah, that punch him in the mouth thing works real well, huh?
Smith was on his weekly radio show last night and said pretty much the same thing, although carefully worded to avoid any potential NFL backlash.

He basically said Incognito has been a POS everywhere he's been and obviously none of this surprises him at all. Incognito's first year surprised Smith, though, but mainly because Incognito had signed a contract with conditions to change his behavior. Smith thought he was being punk'd or something because Incognito was so out of character. Obviously, he was acting for his contract extension.
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Old 11-06-2013   #204
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.
Yep. People wanted Martin to kick his butt, or bring in a shot gun and blow his brains out because "that's what real men do."

But, Martin will win the war, here. Not only will he ruin Ingonitio's career and likely cost him millions, he could also sue Incognitio, the Dolphins AND the NFL for damages. And would probably win.

Notice how he kept all the text messages and voice mails.

Martin is extremely smart and strong, in my opinion. Not at all "weak."
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Old 11-06-2013   #205
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

This story is evolving now into one of Martin being hyper-sensitive and Incognito's and other's player's actions as being crass but normal course of business for the Dolphins...
  • If you're that last guy to sit down at a meal, the table gets up & moves. Philbin was supposedly similarly pranked
  • Incognito was asked by position coaches to "train" or "toughen up" Martin after Martin skipped OTAs, to "bring him into the circle"
  • Financial shakedowns & rookie kangaroo courts were institutionalized
  • There is a culture of acceptance of non-blacks using the "N" word in certain circles, including some NFL environments
Although some players have backed Incognito, others stated they would have objected to the extent and nature of Incognito's off the clock communications. Some of the dialogue appears to be changing from disgust to realization.

Not that I agree, but it's what I'm seeing fwiw.
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Old 11-06-2013   #206
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Incognito was an "honorary black guy" in the locker according to the Miami Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...cker-room.html

Quote:
Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...#storylink=cpy
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Old 11-06-2013   #207
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
Incognito was an "honorary black guy" in the locker according to the Miami Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...cker-room.html
Again: stupid comes in all colors. Those black players are morons.

I think Martin was shunned because he has two parents that are Harvard-educated, and he had a good life. That does not go over well with a lot of people. Sad, but true.
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Old 11-06-2013   #208
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

...in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.



Mmmmkay, so the white guy is black but the black guy is not. Natch.

When are they just going to admit the team ordered a Code Red on Martin?
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Old 11-06-2013   #209
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Again: stupid comes in all colors. Those black players are morons.

I think Martin was shunned because he has two parents that are Harvard-educated, and he had a good life. That does not go over well with a lot of people. Sad, but true.


Sad my thoughts as I read it were nearly exact to yours
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Old 11-06-2013   #210
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

This story may make my head explode. The more I read the more disgusted I become. I have a lack of respect for all Dolphins players after reading that trash. "Honorary black man"? Are these fools serious?
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Old 11-06-2013   #211
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Well now, that's a unique way of qualifying Richie's remarks. If the Dolphins offense was that creative, they might not have lost to Buffalo.
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Old 11-06-2013   #212
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

You know what..... I'm ashamed at the black players on that team. That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Black people love Larry Bird, Bill Clinton, Eminem. That doesn't make them honarary black people. It just makes them cool people being who they are. Man, I'm so upset by this its not even funny and I probably shouldn't be. Every single one of those dudes that said that needs to be punched in the face. Could you imagine the uproar of someone saying "he's an honorary white person"? That **** sounds ridiculous man.

Last edited by Texn4life; 11-06-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 11-06-2013   #213
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...#storylink=cpy
*********
It's well known many blacks feel that usage of the N-word is acceptable by
blacks between themselves and it turns out Richie himself is exempt from charges of racism if he uses it because he's viewed by black team members as an "honorary" Bro. And actually he's considered blacker than Martin by black team members. Now that's some really fascinating stuff.
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Old 11-06-2013   #214
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolph...#storylink=cpy
*********
It's well known many blacks feel that usage of the N-word is acceptable by
blacks between themselves and it turns out Richie himself is exempt from charges of racism if he uses it because he's viewed by black team members as an "honorary" Bro. And actually he's considered blacker than Martin by black team members. Now that's some really fascinating stuff.



lets say I have a friend who is african american and is okay with my use of the n word and gives me a pass, that pass is not good for me to us on every other person. Its not sad someone is labeled a racist for saying racist things to a person of another race.
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Old 11-06-2013   #215
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Quote:
Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.
The whole race thing just jumped the freakin' shark.

I'm sure this is exactly the dream that the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was talking about in his historic speech for future generations about race relations and equality. (obvious sarcasm)

You know, I've heard over and over again (from players, of course) that none of us could possibly understand a pro football locker room. And now, I'm beginning to think that I don't want to understand it. It's like bizarro world. Maybe all these men have suffered from too much CTE. I'm not sarcastic about this part.
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Old 11-06-2013   #216
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Haha, what locker room code did he break? He walked away and had to explain why he walked away. He had racial and death threats thrown his way........ man I hope you have a son that deals with the same crap and think locker room code needs to be upheld. Locker room code is a brotherhood. I would never make my brother feel less like a man. The idiots bringing up this stuff don't know what they're talking about.
Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?
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Old 11-06-2013   #217
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?
Please stop with the "hiding from his poor play" nonsense. He probably didn't turn them in because he felt attacked from all sides. If, as has been rumored, that the direction came from the Dolphin's management to "toughen him up," that means the guy was essentially all alone, and had NO ONE to talk to. About ANYTHING.

And, as I have said before, if he was playing poorly, why not just cut him? Teams do it all the time (except for the Texans. lol).
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Old 11-06-2013   #218
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?
I'll address this post more at length later, but the day I listen to any of those dudes and take them serious is the day I'll jump off a bridge. Everyone of them is an idiot with the exception of Bruce who probably is too. One of them openly supported a murderer...... You're gonna reference that dude? for real for real?
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Old 11-06-2013   #219
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.
If you think Incognito's career is ruined from this than I think you are completely wrong. If Incognito is cut someone will pick him up and I think there is a better chance of him still being on the team rather than Martin.

This is one of those arguments that neither side will ever see or understand the point that the other side is trying get at.
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Old 11-06-2013   #220
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Who would you rather have protecting your QB, Incognito or Martin?
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