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Old 11-05-2013   #141
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Not that I'm a troglodyte but,

Having a man pay $15,000 and not letting him go on the trip to Vegas is taking it too far.
So the hazing went too far. Then you throw in a huge BUT --

Quote:
This was an important season for the Dolphins, they spent alot of $$$$ in FA and trading up in the draft. This season was important enough to Martin for him to show up for OTA's. This was probably 1 reason why nobody respected Martin on the Dolphins. Including Management/Coaches/Teammates and the reason Martin felt likehe had nobody to complain too.
Or maybe he missed OTAs because he felt like no one on his TEAM had his back, and in fact were siding with Incognito.

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Originally Posted by silvrhand View Post
I personally am not excusing Incognito, he's crazy and a POS, I hope he never gets to see another football field again.

- the voicemail incognito left was over the top, but I do believe that missing OTA's would get you called out by other players, I'm willing to bet Incognito was not the only one to text/call Martin for missing OTAs.
You people and your BUT fetishes .... When someone does something wrong that precipitates a response, you don't say "yeah, he was wrong BUT". You just say he was wrong and recognize that the results are dependent upon that wrong. And again, the guy missed OTAs because of the hazing. The hazing didn't start because he missed OTAs.

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Originally Posted by silvrhand View Post
I have not seen any data on why Martin missed OTA's if this was the case and he had exhausted all other options then so be it. I feel though that there is more going on than we've seen though, we only have one side of the story and it's damning no doubt, but the NFL is a high pressure place that some people can't take the pressure.

Not every job is right for every person.
So the job is only right for the Incognitos of the world? Or just the people who can put up with the Incognitos of the world? God save us.
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Old 11-05-2013   #142
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
I hope Incognito ends up in the NFC North so that he can face off with Suh and hopefully they can kill each other on the field.
Suh might be a thug on the field, but I'm not entirely sure he's one off the field.
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Old 11-05-2013   #143
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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I hope Incognito ends up in the NFC North so that he can face off with Suh and hopefully they can kill each other on the field.
Incognito is done, nobody is going to want to be associated with the guy.
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Old 11-05-2013   #144
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Here's also another problem for me here. Hazing and things like it are supposed to bring people closer. The locker room is a brotherhood. I'm all for someone messing with another guy in good fun to turn around and accept him as one of their own. Thats not what happened here....... O-Linemen are notoriously known as the tightest group around. The fact he went where he did shows me that he was trying to intimidate the guy. And then called him to probably intimidate him some more after he left the team because he said he talked to him and everything is all good. The more I type this the more it sounds ridiculous. I don't know how anyone can't see this.
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Old 11-05-2013   #145
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

This is (part of) the culture they face...

NFL personnel question 'coward' Martin for not challenging Incognito

Quote:
"I think Jonathan Martin is a weak person," said one personnel man, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "If Incognito did offend him racially, that's something you have to handle as a man! Mike Pouncey was a rookie at one point while Incognito was there and you never heard any complaints from him. There's no other way to put it, other than him being sofTTT!"

Said another: "Guys are going to be guys, if you know what I mean. I'm sure there are some instances of 'taking things too far,' but that happens everywhere. You handle it in house -- fight, handle it on the field, joke about it, etc -- and keep it moving."

The Dolphins clearly feel otherwise, if only to protect themselves in the event of a lawsuit. That aside, what fascinates me is how quickly the conversation among players and personnel people turned from Incognito's actions to those of Martin, who has not spoken publicly since the story broke last week. Again, no one defended Incognito, but they did wonder why Martin didn't "man up" and handle the situation one-on-one.

"I might get my ass kicked," one said, "but I'm going to go down swinging if that happens to me, I can tell you that."

Right or wrong, that sentiment is shared by many of the players I spoke with. Football is testosterone driven. It's a physical game and, as such, many of its participants believe that's how issues of (dis)respect should be handled when all else fails -- internally, man against man.

"Locker room culture will never be understood unless you've lived or have been around it," said a personnel man. "This is another ploy in the league's 'player safety' book. Incognito knew who to try. You never heard anything like this come from John Jerry or Mike Pouncey. Instead of being a man and confronting him, he acted like a coward and told like a kid."
So Martin should have assaulted Incognito. He should have bashed his brains in. He should have...
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Old 11-05-2013   #146
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
This is (part of) the culture they face...

NFL personnel question 'coward' Martin for not challenging Incognito

So Martin should have assaulted Incognito. He should have bashed his brains in. He should have...
I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.
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Old 11-05-2013   #147
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

and more...
Quote:
Beneath the disgusting details of threats and taunts and racism lies an uncomfortable truth: The NFL needs Richie Incognito more than it needs Jonathan Martin.

Coaches love players like Incognito. They look at guys like Martin, known as soft-spoken and thoughtful while at Stanford, with skepticism. Does he have the killer instinct? Does he care enough? Those questions don't apply to Incognito. Coaches might not want to see him after hours, but they love him on the field. He's indispensable, a tone-setter, the guy who announces your team's presence with a crazed, through-the-whistle style that is prized at every level.

Coaches chuckle among themselves: He might be a horrible human being, but he's our horrible human being. Sociopathic behavior from players at certain positions is not only tolerated but cherished. As long as it stays out of the headlines and the police blotters -- in other words, as long as it's kept in-house -- it provides the kind of toughness you need to compete.

Yes, this is America's game...
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Old 11-05-2013   #148
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.
It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.
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Old 11-05-2013   #149
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.
Dude, I've been in a fight with an O-lineman that outweighed me by 100 pounds. I'm not talking about things I haven't done.I'm backing Martin in this. I wish I had the ability to just not be pressured into fighting. That's not me though. If someone messes with me I'm trying to kick their ass in the locker room. In the real world I'm smarter than that.
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Old 11-05-2013   #150
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Yes, the whole situation is really very silly isn't it. But I won't be at all surprised if we see a piece on the nightly national news soon suggesting there should be sensitivity training for NFL players re their interactions with both opponents and teammates. The NFL is definitely in full-blown wussification mode
and we are headed full speed towards touch football.

I had wondered how long it would take for somebody in this thread to whiteknight a known piece of ****. Turns out it was 5 whole posts, wow.

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.
I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php
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Old 11-05-2013   #151
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I had wondered how long it would take for somebody in this thread to whiteknight a known piece of ****. Turns out it was 5 whole posts, wow.



I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if that dude has ever played organized sports in his life. Probably just heard stories from more bench warmers who have never got in the game.
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Old 11-05-2013   #152
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.
I think the bolded holds true here. I'm like Tex4life. I would've stood up to him, taken a likely ass whoopin but prove to him I'm not going to be the easy target.

That said, different strokes for different folks. Like the ole cliche' "I'm a lover, not a fighter". I met a dude that was the baddest mofo I've seen on the field. Off the field he was tame as could be, never gave a thought to raising a fist even when severely harassed. I'm not trying to compare. Just giving a personal experience
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Old 11-05-2013   #153
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

This is from an ABC news reporters twitter:

Sara Jane Harris @SaraJaneHarris

Oh wow... ESPN playing sound of Richie Incognito... talking about hazing Ryan Tannehill... saying he took his credit card to buy a jet ski.


Sara Jane Harris ‏@SaraJaneHarris 2h

Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan Tannehill has been sacked like over 30 times this season, he should probably get a refund on those jetski's. Also, it is similar to what the mafia does.
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Old 11-05-2013   #154
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
This is from an ABC news reporters twitter:

Sara Jane Harris @SaraJaneHarris

Oh wow... ESPN playing sound of Richie Incognito... talking about hazing Ryan Tannehill... saying he took his credit card to buy a jet ski.


Sara Jane Harris ‏@SaraJaneHarris 2h

Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan Tannehill has been sacked like over 30 times this season, he should probably get a refund on those jetski's. Also, it is similar to what the mafia does.



on mike and mike this morning they played the audio of Incognito talking about Ryan and "oh we will get our money" or something along those lines
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Old 11-05-2013   #155
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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on mike and mike this morning they played the audio of Incognito talking about Ryan and "oh we will get our money" or something along those lines
At this point, he's a criminal as well as a bully.
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Old 11-05-2013   #156
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Quote:
Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.
Wow. Isn't it his job to protect the QB?

I predict Incognito ends up in prison after his football career is over and before it's all said and done.

Or dead. He threatens the wrong dude and finds himself bringing a knife to a gunfight.
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Old 11-05-2013   #157
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php
ugh...I had no idea what I was clicking into!

That's a whole lotta' stupid in one place. Now I have to wonder about my IP address being connected to such a despicable site.

But, yeah, Incognito and his support group would fit right in.
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Old 11-05-2013   #158
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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ugh...I had no idea what I was clicking into!

That's a whole lotta' stupid in one place. Now I have to wonder about my IP address being connected to such a despicable site.

But, yeah, Incognito and his support group would fit right in.
Sometimes when I'm really drunk, I'll make an account on there just to touch the poop. I don't know what is wrong with me.
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Old 11-05-2013   #159
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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You people and your BUT fetishes .... When someone does something wrong that precipitates a response, you don't say "yeah, he was wrong BUT". You just say he was wrong and recognize that the results are dependent upon that wrong. And again, the guy missed OTAs because of the hazing. The hazing didn't start because he missed OTAs.
Sigh..

I clearly stated that Rich Incognito was wrong and a sick individual. But I'm also enough enough to know where there is smoke there is fire. Clearly somethign went on in the locker room and to what level we only know one side of the story so I'm waiting to hear the full story, if we ever do. It's highly likely Incognito was the only one involved and pushed a man to the point of where he felt like he had no other option. In my view I would have thought that it would be pretty obvious to the coaches and players what was going on, almost nothing is sacred in a locker room.

- If Martin was clearly hurting and went to his coaches/owner and nothing was done shame on them.
- If Martin bypassed and just left the team without telling anyone, probably not the right thing to do.

I personally would have given a player grief for not showing up at OTA's, if he would have explained the situation to me I would hope that I would help alleviate the issue. Trust me this isn't the first time sick invidividuals are in the locker room, go look up Charles Haley. The whole 90's cowboys were a locker room disaster.
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Old 11-05-2013   #160
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Dude, I've been in a fight with an O-lineman that outweighed me by 100 pounds. I'm not talking about things I haven't done.I'm backing Martin in this. I wish I had the ability to just not be pressured into fighting. That's not me though. If someone messes with me I'm trying to kick their ass in the locker room. In the real world I'm smarter than that.
What keeps coming to mind is the Gilbert arenas and Jabaris crittenton incident. Two idiots take an idiotic beef to new lows. I don't see Martin escalating a fight to the point where guns are drawn but a stupid animal like incognito probably would. Fighting incognito or smacking him in the mouth would not resolve any issues with that sack of schit.
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