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Old 11-05-2013   #121
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Total BS

The N word has nothing to do with toughening him up. In fact if Ritchie hadn't used the N word all of this wouldn't be a big deal to the masses, as another poster pointed out. Which is sad.

The fact that both white and African-American teammates have come out in support of Incognito, calling him a great teammate and a leader. (I heard this on the news this morning) speaks volumes. Why aren't they supporting Martin? (Legitimate ?)

It's kinda sad really.

PS, dont put words in my mouth
As I said earlier in this thread: stupid comes in all races. Those players that are supporting this idiot are morons.

And, sorry, but, yes, you are justifying his words and actions.
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Old 11-05-2013   #122
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.
Not that I'm a troglodyte but,

Having a man pay $15,000 and not letting him go on the trip to Vegas is taking it too far.

This was an important season for the Dolphins, they spent alot of $$$$ in FA and trading up in the draft. This season was important enough to Martin for him to show up for OTA's. This was probably 1 reason why nobody respected Martin on the Dolphins. Including Management/Coaches/Teammates and the reason Martin felt likehe had nobody to complain too.

Martin will get another job in the NFL if he wants to play, probably not with the Dolphins. But he will get no respect from his teammates around the NFL. He broke the code by taking team problems outside the lockerroom.

His career is permanently damaged. (Sorry that's just the way it is.) I really question if Martin really wants to play football. Because of this, I smell a lawsuit in the near future. Afterall it really will come down to Martin getting paid.
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Old 11-05-2013   #123
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.
I personally am not excusing Incognito, he's crazy and a POS, I hope he never gets to see another football field again.

- the voicemail incognito left was over the top, but I do believe that missing OTA's would get you called out by other players, I'm willing to bet Incognito was not the only one to text/call Martin for missing OTAs.

- the dinner/trip thing is somewhat normal in the NFL for the rookies, they were raking in rather large salaries during the years when rookies were getting multi million dollar deals so I kind of understand how the veterans felt. I'm sort of split on this, do I see it unreasonable to take the veterans out and have buy them dinner? No, do I see it rather crazy that some of these bills are outrageously priced upwards of 50k, absolutely.

This goes beyond being taped to the goal post, and yes I've taped a few players to the goalpost, and one coach in my playing days.
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Old 11-05-2013   #124
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
As I said earlier in this thread: stupid comes in all races. Those players that are supporting this idiot are morons.

And, sorry, but, yes, you are justifying his words and actions.
Where did I say one thing supporting Incognito, I was just explaing the culture of the Dolphins. Read my above post.

You are interpeting things wrong. Or reading them the way you want to believe. I'm done with this part of the conversation.
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Old 11-05-2013   #125
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.
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Old 11-05-2013   #126
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

Incognito really looks like the idiot meathead characters in professional wrestling. I'd like to believe he's acting like a dbag POS, but I think he is genuinely distrurbed.
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Old 11-05-2013   #127
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.
Don't worry, this is all going to come out. I fully expect this kid to launch a massive lawsuit at some point, probably against the team, and its feasible his own union. Going to get very messy, which to me was why the Dolphins moved so quickly to cut Incognito. I have no doubt that was partially, if not completely based on legal advice.
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Old 11-05-2013   #128
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

I understand picking up a meal but when they run 15k+ for a meal I think as a coach I would step in an end the practice because I see that as taking it too far.



edit:


Whether tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of bullying isn't the only issue affecting the Dolphins. The Miami Herald's Adam Beasley tweeted Sunday that one young defensive player has nearly gone broke because he's been pressured to pay for older players.


They've gotten sucked into the Miami lifestyle, and the veterans are using the younger players as an ATM, I'm told.
— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013

Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...-for-teammates
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Old 11-05-2013   #129
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I'll take him. He's better than what we have now at RT.....
Unfortunately Jeff Ireland is the kind of jerk who'll hold & sit Martin out of spite. He's the same guy who withheld Sage Rosenfels, who he had no plans for, from us in 2011 only to release him weeks later.

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Wrong Buckwheat ... my doctor said my troglodytes were high and I better watch it .
I hear Krispy Kremes are good for that.

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
Could you imagine getting together with co-workers and forcing the new guy to pay for everyones lunch while the new guy stays in the office? That doesnt happen because in the real world...
But it does in the NFL, as Mike Golic has explained. His understanding is that money was "owed" as part of a rookie kangaroo court veterans run to "fine" rookies for various infractions. Sounds excessive to me and perhaps is outdated, but it's not unheard of.

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Originally Posted by Txn_in_Oki View Post
We were talking about this at work today and thought that the worst thing was that it wasn't really considered a big deal until the almighty n-word got involved...
I have an issue with that, but calling the guy "at home" and leaving threats bringing his family into it is outside the lines.

Worse for me, though, is Incognito being the source of what is now widely publicly known very personal information about Martin's attempted suicide(s). Did Incognito make all buddy-buddy nice guy with Martin to ferret out embarrassing information that he could use to bully and humiliate Martin with? SOP for bullies. That's HIPAA type privacy info. If Richie tough guy is sharing that info with his loudmouth, jackhole father he very likely bullied Martin about it. And that's beyond the pale.
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Old 11-05-2013   #130
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

All of Incognito's college and pro teams have ended up suspending him, cutting ties with him or both

Quote:
It was early 2002 and Incognito was just a freshman at Nebraska, but that didn't stop him from picking fights or harassing teammates, in this case a non-scholarship offensive lineman named Jack Limbaugh. Incognito plowed into Limbaugh's back during practice, knocking him to the ground for no apparent reason.

Limbaugh responded by getting up, grabbing his equipment and walking out, according to the diary of teammate David Kolowski.

"Richie was a guy who came in with all the talent in the world, and Jack was an easy mark for a guy like Richie, who came across as a bully," Kolowski told USA TODAY Sports on Monday. "Jack was a walk-on just trying to make the team. There was a bit of that kind of bullying with Jack. He didn't appreciate it, but in that culture you don't run and cry to the coaches."

"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," Lawrence Jackson, a former NFL defensive end, said Monday on Twitter. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."

"He didn't know where to draw the line," said Kolowski, who published Diary of a Husker.

There's a pattern at work here, much of which resembles an old stereotype: The privileged jock who likes to make life miserable for opponents and easy targets.
Quote:
"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," Lawrence Jackson, a former NFL defensive end, said Monday on Twitter. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."

"Richie Incognito is... a dirty and disrespectful player," Jackson said on Twitter. "For those wondering...I played him 4x when I was with Seattle. We all knew to watch our KNEES and be alert for his antics."
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Old 11-05-2013   #131
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.
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Old 11-05-2013   #132
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.
I have not seen any data on why Martin missed OTA's if this was the case and he had exhausted all other options then so be it. I feel though that there is more going on than we've seen though, we only have one side of the story and it's damning no doubt, but the NFL is a high pressure place that some people can't take the pressure.

Not every job is right for every person.
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Old 11-05-2013   #133
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.
It's getting a bit out of hand for sure, 4500/5000 I could see, but after that it's like uh yo I'm the only one here.
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Old 11-05-2013   #134
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?
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Old 11-05-2013   #135
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.


I think Dez Bryant picked up a 55k tab
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Old 11-05-2013   #136
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?


It really shouldnt be allowed anywhere
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Old 11-05-2013   #137
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.
According to people on this board, they were just trying to "toughen him up..."
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Old 11-05-2013   #138
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

It won't be long before incognito comes out with a b.s. mea culpa in an effort to salvage his career. Whatever B.S. he says some team will give him a job and I bet he'll find a way to eff that one up too.
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Old 11-05-2013   #139
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by toronto View Post
Dread, I have been there, and am still crawling out. It really is a black hole, or quicksand. I so frigging appreciate knowing many have been down this road. It sucks.
Whenever I hear about someone taking his or her own life, part of me dies a little because I know the place they were in before they found themselves in that dark tunnel and heading for what they assumed to be the only way out.
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"Why attack a man for his race or religion when there are so many other PERFECTLY good reasons?" :Dreademiah 2:16 Dread-Head. Texan from DAY ONE & PROUD Honorary Blue Crew member..."Damn it Bill!"
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Old 11-05-2013   #140
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Default Re: T Johnathan Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?
Hazing is dumb man. I never participated in it even though I went through my fair share of it. Luckily as a freshman in high school I didn't get beat up like other freshman because of my older brother. I did have to deal with it pretty tough first year in college though but it is what it is.

None of them made it personal though which is the problem with this story. I don't understand anyone who even thinks about this twice. If you have kids then you would never want your sons to deal with the likes of Incognito. I would have tried to kick his ass, but everyone isn't wired like me. I can't blame Martin because he chose a different approach. Trying to justify Incognito's actions by pointing out Martin's actions or lack of reactions makes me think people who are doing it are the scum of the earth to me.
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