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Old 11-04-2013   #61
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
So many possibilities. If the reports of no heart attack is indeed accurate, a sudden collapse like this could be a result of an arrhythmia such as atrial fibrillation.

Clots can occur in the heart secondary to the atrial fibrillation (AF).......and can then break loose to obstruct brain circulation (stroke). AF is associated with more severe ischemic strokes and "longer" transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) than emboli from carotid disease, presumably due to embolization of larger particles with AF. As a result, patients with AF who suffer an ischemic stroke appear to have a worse outcome (more disability, greater mortality) than those who have an ischemic stroke in the absence of AF, even after adjustment for the advanced age of patients with AF-related stroke.
Considering the symptoms, would the implementation of an anticoagulent suggest one possibility over others?
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Old 11-04-2013   #62
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

I had really good seats last night and we saw him go down . My #2 son was getting mad because all the medical folks i guess had a potty break . While he was down the camera men started hovering and I'm not sure who this guy was but he was in a suit and started running them off . There was a big dude in a white shirt who was trying to get close , that guy in a suit almost shoved him out of there . It was one of those moments that you thought they were going to pull out the AED .

I think Coach Kubiak's greatest strength is becoming his greatest weakness . You see him on TV or listen to him on the radio and this is wearing on him . I think he is one who is more worried about Schaub and the coaches more than he's worried about himself . Take care of yourself coach and enjoy the grandkids to come .
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Old 11-04-2013   #63
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Get well soon, Coach Kubiak!

Damn, this season just goes from bad to worse.
Ain't that the truth?! Strangest football season I've ever witnessed.
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Old 11-04-2013   #64
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Considering the symptoms, would the implementation of an anticoagulent suggest one possibility over others?
Sorry, but without seeing the MRI and/or more clinical information, that's all I can say. The anticoagulant can be used to dissolve established blocking clots and, in the case of AF, can help prevent more clots originating in the heart from being formed.
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Old 11-04-2013   #65
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Sorry, but without seeing the MRI and/or more clinical information, that's all I can say. The anticoagulant can be used to dissolve established blocking clots and, in the case of AF, can help prevent more clots originating in the heart from being formed.
Considering the pain he was in, I can't help but think that a chunk of clot was dislodged. My mind goes to worst case scenarios.
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Old 11-04-2013   #66
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
So many possibilities. If the reports of no heart attack is indeed accurate, a sudden collapse like this could be a result of an arrhythmia such as atrial fibrillation.

Clots can occur in the heart secondary to the atrial fibrillation (AF).......and can then break loose to obstruct brain circulation (stroke). AF is associated with more severe ischemic strokes and "longer" transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) than emboli from carotid disease, presumably due to embolization of larger particles with AF. As a result, patients with AF who suffer an ischemic stroke appear to have a worse outcome (more disability, greater mortality) than those who have an ischemic stroke in the absence of AF, even after adjustment for the advanced age of patients with AF-related stroke.
Atrial fibrillation very rarely causes syncope (passing out), and typically an a-fib related CVA occurs shortly after restoration of sinus rhythm rather than upon converting into atrial fibrillation.

I think that if they did indeed give TPA, he had to have had a significantly high NIH stroke scale and an ischemic stroke would be the most likely scenario.

If it were a STEMI (heart attack), he would have been taken to the cath lab directly.

Also, no one uses TPA for MI anymore, it is almost always TNK, and it would be very unusual in Houston for someone to be treated with thrombolytics. The only time I know of anyone being treated for MI with lytics (TPA or TNK) in recent times in Houston was during tropical storm Allison when all the cath labs were down due to power outage.

I have seen plenty of people having an acute stroke though and he didn't really look like that either.

And usually the strokes that cause a great deal of pain (which it looked like he was in) are hemorrhagic and he would not have received TPA for that.

The common cardiovascular causes of syncope (passing out) are brady arrhythmias (slow heart rate), ventricular tachy arrhythmias (fast heart rates), or a vasovagal episodes (all of the blood vessels dilating and the blood rushing down to your legs. Very rarely will a supraventricular tachyarrhythmia (like a-fib, a-flutter, AVNRT, atrial tach, etc) cause anything more than palpitations and feeling poorly.

V Tach and complete heart block can commonly be caused by a heart attack.

That being said, it didn't really look like he passed out all the way from what they showed on TV.

The problem with diagnosing a stroke is that it doesn't show up on a CT scan for 3-4 days usually. An MRI with diffusion/perfusion imaging can usually show an acute stroke, and it sounds like he was going to have one of those today. The decision of whether or not to give TPA usually comes down to clinical judgement of the ER doc and/or stroke team doc (usually a neurologist) because you only have 180 minutes from symptom onset to treat it.
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Old 11-04-2013   #67
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

I hope everything is ok with Kubiak. It's scary to see something like this happen.
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Old 11-04-2013   #68
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

I wish nothing but the best for Kubiak and his family on this. I hope he comes out of this in good health.
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Old 11-04-2013   #69
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

First John Fox and now Kubes. Wow, was this ever a weekend of health scares for NFL coaches. It certainly is a reminder of priorities and that, well, in the end it *is* "only football".
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Old 11-04-2013   #70
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

There are some truly awful people in this thread.


Get well soon, Coach.
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Old 11-04-2013   #71
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

Best wishes to Coach Kubes and his family. Hoping for a speedy recovery.
Have to admit that after he went down on the field, I had a hard time getting back into the game...can only imagine how the team felt. Wade looked like death himself in the post-game presser.
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Old 11-04-2013   #72
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

Best wishes to Kubiak and his family. Hopefully his hospital stay is just a precaution and he is back with the team soon.
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Old 11-04-2013   #73
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

Chronicle also reported it was not a stroke either but rather stroke-like symptoms...whatever that means.
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Old 11-04-2013   #74
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

Praying for a great outcome for Gary and family.
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Old 11-04-2013   #75
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

My thoughts and prayers are with Coach Kubiak and his family. Wishing him a speedy recovery and full health.

This is a game at the end of the day. Kubes needs to get healthy, and find the priorities in his life that make him happy. If that is football so be it, but there MUST be some work/life balance. I know these guys put in crazy hours. The body can only take so much. Our bodies were designed for a cycle of activity and rest, and when you take out the rest, and add in an incredible dose of stress, that's a recipe for disaster.

Is it time that the NFL care as much about the coaches as it pretends to care about the players?

There are a million different rules in place regarding player safety - and limits on work hours. Interestingly, there are no such rules in place regarding coaches that I am aware of. Coaches burning out quite literally are common.

It's high time we limit coaches hours etc.. If everyone is restricted, it's a level playing field.
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Old 11-04-2013   #76
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
Atrial fibrillation very rarely causes syncope (passing out), and typically an a-fib related CVA occurs shortly after restoration of sinus rhythm rather than upon converting into atrial fibrillation.

I think that if they did indeed give TPA, he had to have had a significantly high NIH stroke scale and an ischemic stroke would be the most likely scenario.

If it were a STEMI (heart attack), he would have been taken to the cath lab directly.

Also, no one uses TPA for MI anymore, it is almost always TNK, and it would be very unusual in Houston for someone to be treated with thrombolytics. The only time I know of anyone being treated for MI with lytics (TPA or TNK) in recent times in Houston was during tropical storm Allison when all the cath labs were down due to power outage.

I have seen plenty of people having an acute stroke though and he didn't really look like that either.

And usually the strokes that cause a great deal of pain (which it looked like he was in) are hemorrhagic and he would not have received TPA for that.

The common cardiovascular causes of syncope (passing out) are brady arrhythmias (slow heart rate), ventricular tachy arrhythmias (fast heart rates), or a vasovagal episodes (all of the blood vessels dilating and the blood rushing down to your legs. Very rarely will a supraventricular tachyarrhythmia (like a-fib, a-flutter, AVNRT, atrial tach, etc) cause anything more than palpitations and feeling poorly.

V Tach and complete heart block can commonly be caused by a heart attack.

That being said, it didn't really look like he passed out all the way from what they showed on TV.

The problem with diagnosing a stroke is that it doesn't show up on a CT scan for 3-4 days usually. An MRI with diffusion/perfusion imaging can usually show an acute stroke, and it sounds like he was going to have one of those today. The decision of whether or not to give TPA usually comes down to clinical judgement of the ER doc and/or stroke team doc (usually a neurologist) because you only have 180 minutes from symptom onset to treat it.
yes. i know some of those words.
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Old 11-04-2013   #77
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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yes. i know some of those words.
Sorry man, I was kind of targeting Dr. Jean with that to get his opinion. The gist of it is that none of it really adds up medically, but the most likely thing that I can come up with is that he probably had a stroke based upon the LITTLE we know.
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Old 11-04-2013   #78
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Default Re: Kubiak Collapses at the half

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As just reported by @BobAllenKHOU, source w/Texans says Kubiak had "stroke-like" symptoms includ. numbness on left side & slurred speech
https://twitter.com/DTGoteraKHOU/sta...99146677919744
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Old 11-04-2013   #79
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Ugh
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Old 11-04-2013   #80
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Sad. Really sad.

What concerns me too is how the Texans' org is so secretive with illnesses and revealing medical details. It concerns me because it could be worse than what is being reported and we won't find out for a few more days.

Here's to a fast and speedy full recovery.

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