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Old 10-26-2013   #41
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
London has sold our every game.

Nfl Europe is meaningless. Of course no one cared about it. How many of you watch the mlb minor league games? I wouldn't watch an nfl Europe team if they were the only teams I had access to either. Inferior played, limited marketing, poor play, very low stakes.
Your logic is backwards. The current London games are almost meaningless. It is a novelty. You could sell out 1 game a year in El Paso. Doesn't mean it will support a team.

NFL Europe on the other hand is very relevant to interest level. Same players, same marketing, same play the Germans were interested and the English were not. That's what all these games are about - trying to build an interest where little exists.
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Old 10-26-2013   #42
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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It will happen eventually whether we like it or not

London has sold our every game. Mexico City isn't even a consideration so I don't know why anyone's even talking about it


Nfl Europe is meaningless. Of course no one cared about it. How many of you watch the mlb minor league games? I wouldn't watch an nfl Europe team if they were the only teams I had access to either. Inferior played, limited marketing, poor play, very low stakes.
People are talking about Mexico City because Mexico City is an extremely short flight. It's do-able.

The NFL can "talk" London all they want, but, that's just to sell tickets in the moment and build excitement.

I haven't even talked about the expense to fly a jumbo jet across the Atlantic, whether or not London-based NFL players will be paid in British Pounds or US dollars and how that conversion rate would essentially double NFL player salaries under the next Collective Bargaining Agreement, whether or not the London-based team staff would be subject to US taxes, whether they will be subject to European Union labor and employment laws...and a zillion other logistical issues that make a team in London a non-starter.

The NFL will never have a team in London.
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Old 10-26-2013   #43
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Your logic is backwards. The current London games are almost meaningless. It is a novelty. You could sell out 1 game a year in El Paso. Doesn't mean it will support a team.

NFL Europe on the other hand is very relevant to interest level. Same players, same marketing, same play the Germans were interested and the English were not.
It's an indicator but certainly not the sole factor. Should we assume that the NFL would fail in Birmingham or San Antonio because their WLAF teams drew poorly?

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TEAM ATTENDANCE

London 40,481; New York-New Jersey 32,380; Montreal 31,882; Frankfurt 29,856; Barcelona 29,002; Birmingham 25,500; Orlando 19,537; Sacramento 17,994; San Antonio 14,853; Raleigh-Durham 12,066;

SOURCE: WLAF
I think games would do very well in Germany, but that doesn't mean that London is a sham. The NFL has come a long way in a very short time there.
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Old 10-26-2013   #44
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Your logic is backwards. The current London games are almost meaningless. It is a novelty. You could sell out 1 game a year in El Paso. Doesn't mean it will support a team.

NFL Europe on the other hand is very relevant to interest level. Same players, same marketing, same play the Germans were interested and the English were not. That's what all these games are about - trying to build an interest where little exists.
Nfl Europe players were meaningless games with basically garbage players on teams with zero history playing against equally meaningless franchises.
You can't compare interest in that with the draw of the packers in London to play against whatever team ends up there.

Like I said, I would never pay to see the nfl Europe players on an nfl Europe team. Even when I lived in a state with no nfl team, it wouldn't have interested me. It's comparing apples and oranges. It's the same reason I don't care about arena football. But you wouldn't judge a city's ability to support a franchise by how popular their novelty leagues are
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Old 10-26-2013   #45
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
People are talking about Mexico City because Mexico City is an extremely short flight. It's do-able.

The NFL can "talk" London all they want, but, that's just to sell tickets in the moment and build excitement.

I haven't even talked about the expense to fly a jumbo jet across the Atlantic, whether or not London-based NFL players will be paid in British Pounds or US dollars and how that conversion rate would essentially double NFL player salaries under the next Collective Bargaining Agreement, whether or not the London-based team staff would be subject to US taxes, whether they will be subject to European Union labor and employment laws...and a zillion other logistical issues that make a team in London a non-starter.

The NFL will never have a team in London.


The currency would be a non issue. Either your contract is in usd, eur or gbp and that's how you get paid no matter where you play. The cost of the jumbo jet wouldn't be an issue either. You are making up a handful of things that aren't actual issues
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Old 10-27-2013   #46
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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The currency would be a non issue. Either your contract is in usd, eur or gbp and that's how you get paid no matter where you play. The cost of the jumbo jet wouldn't be an issue either. You are making up a handful of things that aren't actual issues
The currency isn't an issue? The exchange rate with the British Pound is leveraged towards the British Pound. And has been for a long time. If we pay London-based players in British Pounds, they'd be making much more than American-based players. Do you really think the players Union would be ok with that?

If you pay London-based players in American dollars, that would be an issue as well, because the cost of living in London is so high that you'd have to pay them well above what NFL players in other markets are making.

Hauling a massive jumbo jet across the Atlantic isn't an issue? Are you kidding me? You think it's free to run those big jets across the pond? The owners will have to spend massive more amount of money on travel than they already do.

I am not making things up. These are all, real-world, legit issues. You are being obtuse.
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Old 10-27-2013   #47
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Hauling a massive jumbo jet across the Atlantic isn't an issue? Are you kidding me? You think it's free to run those big jets across the pond? The owners will have to spend massive more amount of money on travel than they already do.
Bring back the Concorde!
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Old 10-27-2013   #48
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

Lolz at guys making millions not being able to afford living in London. Okay Latrell Sprewell. How can anyone afford it on 500k a year? We'll have to rewrite the rookie pay scale and eliminate the salary cap so their players can eat!

The cost of living in London is relatively close to living in New York or San Francisco. Do we have to pay guys more to play for the Giants than the Packers?

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index
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Old 10-27-2013   #49
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Lolz at guys making millions not being able to afford living in London. The cost of living in London is relatively close to living in New York or San Francisco. Do we have to pay guys more to play for the Giants than the Packers?

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index
Ah, I knew that one was coming. Understand that it's about the exchange rate, and international tax laws. The American dollar does not go far in London. So, if you pay players in British Pounds, that's good, but, that's kind of screwing US-based players. Yes, we would likely have to pay players living in London more money.

Anyway, this conversation is getting superflous, and none of us will agree. Understand that I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a team in London; it is possible. I just think the logistics - combined with the cheapness of the owners - make is more complicated than most of us realize.
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Old 10-27-2013   #50
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Ah, I knew that one was coming. Understand that it's about the exchange rate, and international tax laws. The American dollar does not go far in London. So, if you pay players in British Pounds, that's good, but, that's kind of screwing US-based players. Yes, we would likely have to pay players living in London more money.

Anyway, this conversation is getting superflous, and none of us will agree. Understand that I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a team in London; it is possible. I just think the logistics - combined with the cheapness of the owners - make is more complicated than most of us realize.
Dude I was in London last summer. My dollar did fine. 50 pounds a night for a decent hotel near Kensington. Beer was 2 pounds or so on average. Fast food was 3 or 4 pounds -- a decent dinner was 10 to 20. The pound was trading at 1 to 1.6 or so, so add 50% and you can see exactly how far my dollar went.

France cost me much more.

500,000 dollars a year (the minimum for a guy with 1 year's experience) equates to 310,000 pounds. Seriously, you don't think they can live on that? You think they need a subsidy?

Not to mention that we'd have to deal with the exchange rate and international tax laws if we expand to Mexico too. I'm pretty sure that players AND owners would rather tie their dollars to the pound than the peso. It's a helluva lot more stable for starters.
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Old 10-27-2013   #51
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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The currency isn't an issue? The exchange rate with the British Pound is leveraged towards the British Pound. And has been for a long time. If we pay London-based players in British Pounds, they'd be making much more than American-based players. Do you really think the players Union would be ok with that?

If you pay London-based players in American dollars, that would be an issue as well, because the cost of living in London is so high that you'd have to pay them well above what NFL players in other markets are making.

Hauling a massive jumbo jet across the Atlantic isn't an issue? Are you kidding me? You think it's free to run those big jets across the pond? The owners will have to spend massive more amount of money on travel than they already do.

I am not making things up. These are all, real-world, legit issues. You are being obtuse.


You must not work in the real world because simple business concepts seem to escape you.

Let's say a top flight qb makes 20 million usd a year and it takes 1.50 to purchase 1 gbp well the top flight qb on the London based team would make 13.33 million gbp a year instead. It's very simple math to take care of the conversion. All US based players could still be paid USD, for that matter so could the London based players and no you wouldn't have to make any absurd adjustments for cost of living, is the salary cap adjusted across the US? Nope. I can request my employer pay me in one of about 20 currencies no matter where I work or live.


There is an expense with the flight however is not prohibitive to keep this from happening and certainly something a London based owner would know going in to this

There is also not a magical 3 hour flight difference on the return flight
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Old 10-27-2013   #52
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
You must not work in the real world because simple business concepts seem to escape you.

Let's say a top flight qb makes 20 million usd a year and it takes 1.50 to purchase 1 gbp well the top flight qb on the London based team would make 13.33 million gbp a year instead. It's very simple math to take care of the conversion. All US based players could still be paid USD, for that matter so could the London based players and no you wouldn't have to make any absurd adjustments for cost of living, is the salary cap adjusted across the US? Nope. I can request my employer pay me in one of about 20 currencies no matter where I work or live.


There is an expense with the flight however is not prohibitive to keep this from happening and certainly something a London based owner would know going in to this

There is also not a magical 3 hour flight difference on the return flight
Actually, I work in Houston for a London-based company. I know about business.

Anyway, as I said, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm done with this conversation.

A London team will not happen.
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Old 10-27-2013   #53
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Dude I was in London last summer. My dollar did fine. 50 pounds a night for a decent hotel near Kensington. Beer was 2 pounds or so on average. Fast food was 3 or 4 pounds -- a decent dinner was 10 to 20. The pound was trading at 1 to 1.6 or so, so add 50% and you can see exactly how far my dollar went.

France cost me much more.

500,000 dollars a year (the minimum for a guy with 1 year's experience) equates to 310,000 pounds. Seriously, you don't think they can live on that? You think they need a subsidy?

Not to mention that we'd have to deal with the exchange rate and international tax laws if we expand to Mexico too. I'm pretty sure that players AND owners would rather tie their dollars to the pound than the peso. It's a helluva lot more stable for starters.
Good grief.

You do realize that the exchange rate with Mexico favors the US dollar MUCH more than it does with the UK pound, no?

And, again: flying to Mexico is nothing compared to flying to London. Which dramatically negates the travel costs.

As I said, this conversation is going no where. Some of us just won't agree.

And, regardless of what people are finding as they rush to airline web sites to look up flight times to and from Europe, I have done that trip several times. Coming back from Europe is pretty much 3 hours longer - to Houston - than going over. That's been my experience, anyway.

Anyway, as I said, we will all agree to disagree...
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Old 10-27-2013   #54
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Good grief.

You do realize that the exchange rate with Mexico favors the US dollar MUCH more than it does with the UK pound, no?

And, again: flying to Mexico is nothing compared to flying to London. Which dramatically negates the travel costs.

As I said, this conversation is going no where. Some of us just won't agree.

And, regardless of what people are finding as they rush to airline web sites to look up flight times to and from Europe, I have done that trip several times. Coming back from Europe is pretty much 3 hours longer - to Houston - than going over. That's been my experience, anyway.

Anyway, as I said, we will all agree to disagree...
hey you know the dollar is even stronger against the Columbian peso. Maybe they should put a team in Bogota.

Corrupt Federales shot up the airport a week after the last time I flew out of Benito Juarez. Maybe it's not "nothing" compared to a flight to London after all?
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Old 10-27-2013   #55
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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hey you know the dollar is even stronger against the Columbian peso. Maybe they should put a team in Bogota.

Corrupt Federales shot up the airport a week after the last time I flew out of Benito Juarez. Maybe it's not "nothing" compared to a flight to London after all?
LOL!

You know, I never really "got" the concept of a Straw Man argument until now.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Unbelievable.
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Old 10-27-2013   #56
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

This is interesting. It would give London 8 games per season without a team...

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Peter King @SI_PeterKing
NFL considering many London options. Reported on #NBCSNF that one option is lg playing 8-game package w/all teams rotating regularly.
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Old 10-27-2013   #57
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Actually, I work in Houston for a London-based company. I know about business.

Anyway, as I said, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm done with this conversation.

A London team will not happen.

No clearly you don't understand business because currency differences aren't an issue and you continue to show how ignorant you are on the topic. You work for a London based company in the US? Do you get paid in gbp? If not I can't understand how your company figured it out and the nfl cant


The added cost for longer flights will be something a London based owner could easily absorb without impacting the finances of a team to keep this from happening

Of course we can agree to disagree on a fake 3 hour travel time difference
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Old 10-27-2013   #58
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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Good grief.

You do realize that the exchange rate with Mexico favors the US dollar MUCH more than it does with the UK pound, no?

And, again: flying to Mexico is nothing compared to flying to London. Which dramatically negates the travel costs.

As I said, this conversation is going no where. Some of us just won't agree.

And, regardless of what people are finding as they rush to airline web sites to look up flight times to and from Europe, I have done that trip several times. Coming back from Europe is pretty much 3 hours longer - to Houston - than going over. That's been my experience, anyway.

Anyway, as I said, we will all agree to disagree...
It is not 3 hours longer. Christ look it up its a hour to hour and a half. You can't start saying "agree to disagree" when you are factually wrong an there is no retort you can make
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Old 10-27-2013   #59
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

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LOL!

You know, I never really "got" the concept of a Straw Man argument until now.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Unbelievable.
You still don't get the concept.

You are arguing that since "the exchange rate with Mexico favors the US dollar MUCH more than it does with the UK pound," it means Mexico is a better candidate, are you not? If you aren't saying that what the heck are you pointing it out for? And I'm saying in response that the primary consideration isn't just where the exchange rate favors us -- if it were there are a lot of other candidates too. Player safety matters. The purchasing power of the fans in the city or country they place the team matters.

Hypothetical question: If London and Mexico City both got a team and both offered Payton $20 million to play for them, do you think Peyton Manning would rather make $20 million to play in Mexico City or London?
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Old 10-27-2013   #60
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Default Re: 3 NFL Games in London in 2014?

Quote:
THE Big Mac index was invented by The Economist in 1986 as a lighthearted guide to whether currencies are at their “correct” level. It is based on the theory of purchasing-power parity (PPP), the notion that in the long run exchange rates should move towards the rate that would equalise the prices of an identical basket of goods and services (in this case, a burger) in any two countries. For example, the average price of a Big Mac in America in July 2013 was $4.56; in China it was only $2.61 at market exchange rates. So the "raw" Big Mac index says that the yuan was undervalued by 43% at that time.

Burgernomics was never intended as a precise gauge of currency misalignment, merely a tool to make exchange-rate theory more digestible. Yet the Big Mac index has become a global standard, included in several economic textbooks and the subject of at least 20 academic studies. For those who take their fast food more seriously, we have also calculated a gourmet version of the index.

This adjusted index addresses the criticism that you would expect average burger prices to be cheaper in poor countries than in rich ones because labour costs are lower. PPP signals where exchange rates should be heading in the long run, as a country like China gets richer, but it says little about today's equilibrium rate. The relationship between prices and GDP per person may be a better guide to the current fair value of a currency. The adjusted index uses the “line of best fit” between Big Mac prices and GDP per person for 48 countries (plus the euro area). The difference between the price predicted by the red line for each country, given its income per person, and its actual price gives a supersized measure of currency under- and over-valuation.
http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

According to this index the dollar is currently undervalued against the pound by 11.8%, and against the peso by 37.3%. At least these economists (from The Economist Magazine) think the dollar's purchasing power isn't as bad in Britain as you claim.
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