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Old 10-25-2013   #201
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I was not a huge Winston Fan, but in hindsight he was leaps and bounds better than anything we have now. Not even close.

There we're the occasional whiffs, but for the most part he'd block him man in pass pro and he was good in run blocking.

Only thing I can think of is that maybe the Texans felt like he was in a decline .
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Your last line is spot on from what I heard from a friend in the organization. There was solid concern about future performance decline in the near future
The primary reason why Winston was released when he was is because he offered the Texans the most Salary Cap space which the Texans were in desperate need of. Winston gave up 6 sacks during the year without any help but nobody did a better job run blocking and opening up more holes for Foster than Winston. Winston's departure was the beginning of Foster's decline. Since Winston's departure to this day the Texans can not run to the right or in the Red Zone.
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Old 10-25-2013   #202
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Now tell us all about the bottom 40 players on that 53 man roster.
Lol I was responding to the conversation surrounding re-signing out players that deserve it and how that has an immediate effect to our cap situation. I can't put it any other way than to say we have a lot of really good players. Those players get paid handsomely. That's the byproduct of them playing so well. The ones were keeping are arguably in the top 3 in the nfl at their respective positions. This whole conversation is about our cap management and were always up against it now bc we have a crap ton of good players.

We didn't splurge during the uncapped season bc they new we needed to re-sign our own players over the next few years. That's managing the cap, we're against the cap ... That's very different from being in cap hell.
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Old 10-25-2013   #203
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

i'm not getting this discussion at all. we have what many consider(ed) to be the most overall talented team in the league. we sent 8 players to the probowl last season, including multiple all-pro's. we have cap-friendly deals in place, and each year can move money around or drop a player without hurting us. this season some contracts have tightened our belt a bit, but some big ones (antonio, wade smith, schaub) can be removed for significant savings. those three mentioned we've addressed with young players. the trouble is your potential players may not be as good as your high payed vets, or they might exceed the vet. case looks better than schaub, jones and wade are about a push, and crick will be a step down from antonio. what Texian keeps harping on is being able to add 2mil-5mil contracts ... those are dead money deals, players who arent part of your core and potential cuts (especially at the bottom of the team like texian wants), but make enough money to cause problems.

what's hurting us more than anything is we've had a run of players who havent panned out at vital positions. OLB has reed, mercilus, montgomery, and williams - picks from each of the first four rounds who havent really worked. on the line we've added newton, jones, gardner, brooks, quess, and williams - picks all over the map with only brandon brooks going as planned. these two areas we've thrown our resources at but just cant land the winners and it's showing on the field.
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Old 10-25-2013   #204
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Can we consider that the bad start began in December of last year?
Because total mismanagement of the salary cap bit us in the ass mid December.


Totally logical.
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Old 10-25-2013   #205
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Because total mismanagement of the salary cap bit us in the ass mid December.


Totally logical.
Yep, it was just a matter of time and that's when it began to rear it's ugly head. Actually the crack in the damn started around the middle of November. Those .500 and > teams have a way of doing that to the Texans most of the time.
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Old 10-25-2013   #206
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I was not a huge Winston Fan, but in hindsight he was leaps and bounds better than anything we have now. Not even close.
Not hindsight. Remember this thread? Winston was playing well his last season here. There was some Pro Bowl chatter. He had his limitations, but they were the sort of limitations that most above average but not elite tackles have.

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I don't know about you, but I was high on Butler. Check old forum posts and I know I wasn't the only one. At the time, I felt for the amount of money we'd save, and the minimal amount of production we'd lose, cutting Winston was the right move. BTW, it's not like he's been playing well since he left either.
I never felt like Butler was an adequate replacement plan. I gave Newton the benefit of the doubt early on, since he was young, but neve rfelt good about him either. Here are some of my posts from the offseason/preseason after Winston was cut:

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That's one way to look at it. Allow me to present the other side of the argument.

The team was a QB and maybe a WR away from being serious Super Bowl contenders this past season. They were a Jacoby Jones away from potentially moving on to the AFC Championship game even without that QB and WR (full strength AJ). Since then, the only personnel change to the team has been a net loss of players.

1.) Mario - let me get this out of the way first. I'm a big fan of Mario I was one of the few people cheering when they announced the night before the draft they were taking him. The guy caught a ton of unjustified flack while he was here and played well when he was healthy. WHEN HE WAS HEALTHY is why I'm perfectly OK with him moving on. You don't pay a guy 96mil for missing games every season and/or ineffectively playing through injury. I think we all suspected Mario would be gone, and I think the FO made the only choice they should have to maintain long term viability. Thank you Texans for not mortgaging the future on Mario.

2.) Schaub has missed significant time 3 of the 5 seasons he's been a Texan. TJ Yates is a possible replacement someday, but we all saw that he's not quite there yet. Just wanted to point out that they're still potentially a QB away from being a serious SB contender.

3.) WR - Jacoby sucks. I've been saying it for a long time, and my hatred for him as a player (not person) is pretty far from objective after the playoff game. He's still here. AJ is great WHEN HE'S HEALTHY. He's missed more games in the past 5 years than Matt Schaub. Maybe people don't realize or want to accept that; I don't know.

4.) Myers - glad he was re-signed, but I'm not buying the hype that's been put out there about him. He's had one really bad year, one really good year, and the rest has been solid. You didn't fire him after his really bad year, so don't blow smoke up my ass about his really good year. Make him do it again. You made Foster do it a second time, after all.

5.) Brisiel - not to be confused with a HOF guard or anything, but he's consistently beaten Caldwell, even coming back from a bad leg, twice. He's just a flat out better player than Caldwell. So saying they have his replacement on the roster is pretty disingenuous.

6.) Winston - occasional liability in pass protection, but if Butler is better, why didn't he beat out Winston for the job? Either he's not as good or Kubiak wasn't playing the better player. You decide which of those options you like best, I suppose. I hope he gets better than Winston this season, at any rate.

7.) Ryans - Everyone knew it was going to take 2 years to come back from that injury. He started playing his best football toward the end of last year, so they traded him away.

8.) Vickers, Allen, Dreessen, etc. - All of these guys filled roles that kept other players off the field. Casey didn't supplant Vickers as a blocker or Dreessen as a TE. Graham didn't supplant Dreessen as a TE. KJax couldn't keep Allen off the field. Brandon Harris never saw the field, despite being a 2nd round pick. McManis and his random contemporaries couldn't break through either. So again, either these players were the best options to help the team win, or the coaches were making bad decisions.

Any of these moves can be rationalized. Taken as a whole, however, they weaken the team. They may not weaken the business side of things, but that's not going to help the W-L column unless they use that money to bring real replacements in. There's still a draft left to go and they'll undoubtedly get a couple impact players. Let's hope it's enough. I have hope for Sharpton and Kareem Jackson, so that's a positive. Brooks Reed is going to be a very good player. But like I said above, the moves when taken as a whole are hard to rationalize away.

Also, while I have a ton of faith in Wade Phillips to put a top notch defense out there no matter what, Smithiak has earned no such trust from me. They've had way too many WTF moments in personnel for me to blindly trust that they know the best course of action.

But hey, I hope you sunshiners are right, since I rather enjoyed the first good season immensely. I'm just a little irritated that they seem intent on blasting my optimism since the season ended. And deep down, a little part of me knew they would. So no, the sky isn't falling, but it's hard to tell if those clouds rolling in are just an afternoon shower or a full blown hurricane. We'll see.
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I just think some people are trying to convince themselves that Winston was worse than he is and the OL will be better off without him and Brisiel. If Caldwell was better than Brisiel, he would have beaten him out in one of the many opportunities he's gotten. If Butler was better than Winston, he would have been receiving the sort of playtime rotation that Caldwell was getting, or some sort of greater opportunity.

It's going to be an issue going forward. Luckily, the QB and RB will minimize the impact but when you get into tight spaces, that right side is going to come up short a lot more than Brisiel and Winston. JMO. We'll see.
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As for the contract restructure/pay cut, I have my own question about it, relative to other offseason activity. Walter has not only played in most of the games since he started playing for the Texans (his 2nd year here, I think), but he's been a starter. Why would you ask a guy like Walter to take a pay cut and then make him the starter? I mean, I get that he makes a little too much money for what they want him to do, and they recognize that, and also they have a ton of other offseason considerations like Myers, Foster, and Duane Brown. But if a guy isn't producing like you want, teams most often just cut them. You don't generally see starters asked to take a pay cut and then remain as a starter. Now add to that line of thinking that they never even asked Winston to take a pay cut. They just cut him outright. He's a far better tackle than Walter is a WR in most fans' opinions (so, grain of salt and all that). But he was just unceremoniously cut loose. They didn't even try to get anything in return.
I think there's a little revisionist history going on these days.

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I get what you are saying. However, it's not as if Winston went on to play solid football the next few years... He was done. So, I give the team credit for making that call when they did. Then, I am critical of the fact that they have failed to patch up the tackle position. They weren't replacing an all-pro. They were replacing a borderline NFL tackle (at the point of his release). So, good recognition on Winston and good, tough decision. But, then, come on! Coach someone up or bring in a veteran presence to sure the spot up.
You can't have a salary cap discussion without discussing the lack of ability to replace players. Otherwise, we could just all propose that they replace everyone with vet minimums. Winston was a better tackle than anyone the Texans had in the pipeline, and he was under contract. And in case everyone forgot, the Texans never even attempted to renegotiate his contract! They just outright cut him as a complete surprise. They gave us that BS rationale that they respected him too much to try and renegotiate his contract, while they forced Walter to take a pay cut and renegotiated AJ's contract. Guess that means they didn't respect the latter two players, huh?

That kind of crap is on Rick Smith. IF you're going to cut a solid player, you better damn sure have a replacement plan and a contingency plan or you run the risk of looking like a dumbass at the very least, and costing your team some wins very possibly.
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Old 10-25-2013   #207
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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The primary reason why Winston was released when he was is because he offered the Texans the most Salary Cap space which the Texans were in desperate need of. Winston gave up 6 sacks during the year without any help but nobody did a better job run blocking and opening up more holes for Foster than Winston. Winston's departure was the beginning of Foster's decline. Since Winston's departure to this day the Texans can not run to the right or in the Red Zone.
You're right there was significant cap savings but that's not the only reason. There were other factors that contributed to Winston's release
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Old 10-25-2013   #208
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Not hindsight. Remember this thread? Winston was playing well his last season here. There was some Pro Bowl chatter. He had his limitations, but they were the sort of limitations that most above average but not elite tackles have.



I never felt like Butler was an adequate replacement plan. I gave Newton the benefit of the doubt early on, since he was young, but neve rfelt good about him either. Here are some of my posts from the offseason/preseason after Winston was cut:







I think there's a little revisionist history going on these days.



You can't have a salary cap discussion without discussing the lack of ability to replace players. Otherwise, we could just all propose that they replace everyone with vet minimums. Winston was a better tackle than anyone the Texans had in the pipeline, and he was under contract. And in case everyone forgot, the Texans never even attempted to renegotiate his contract! They just outright cut him as a complete surprise. They gave us that BS rationale that they respected him too much to try and renegotiate his contract, while they forced Walter to take a pay cut and renegotiated AJ's contract. Guess that means they didn't respect the latter two players, huh?

That kind of crap is on Rick Smith. IF you're going to cut a solid player, you better damn sure have a replacement plan and a contingency plan or you run the risk of looking like a dumbass at the very least, and costing your team some wins very possibly.
I think they made tactical mistakes and counted on players they shouldn't have... I don't think they "had" to cut Winston because of the cap. And, I certainly know they could have spent some money this off-season on the right tackle position... They chose not to. It is not due to the cap. With A.Smith's, W. Smith's contracts and others, they had a ton of room to work with. They were content with Newton. OOPS!. It reminds me of the errors they made in 2009-10 in the secondary, particularly at the safety position.
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Old 10-25-2013   #209
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I think they made tactical mistakes and counted on players they shouldn't have... I don't think they "had" to cut Winston because of the cap.
Well, they certainly sold the story that it was because of the salary cap, so as far as I'm concerned, they've mismanaged the cap. Regardless what you think about any specific player's situation, there's a generality that applies. If you draft people and they are solid to good players, you have to either keep them (cap management commensurate with talent level) or properly plan to replace them before they are let go (also cap management commensurate with talent level). I don't think the Texans have done a good job on that.
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Old 10-25-2013   #210
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Not hindsight. Remember this thread? Winston was playing well his last season here. There was some Pro Bowl chatter. He had his limitations, but they were the sort of limitations that most above average but not elite tackles have.



I never felt like Butler was an adequate replacement plan. I gave Newton the benefit of the doubt early on, since he was young, but neve rfelt good about him either. Here are some of my posts from the offseason/preseason after Winston was cut:







I think there's a little revisionist history going on these days.



You can't have a salary cap discussion without discussing the lack of ability to replace players. Otherwise, we could just all propose that they replace everyone with vet minimums. Winston was a better tackle than anyone the Texans had in the pipeline, and he was under contract. And in case everyone forgot, the Texans never even attempted to renegotiate his contract! They just outright cut him as a complete surprise. They gave us that BS rationale that they respected him too much to try and renegotiate his contract, while they forced Walter to take a pay cut and renegotiated AJ's contract. Guess that means they didn't respect the latter two players, huh?

That kind of crap is on Rick Smith. IF you're going to cut a solid player, you better damn sure have a replacement plan and a contingency plan or you run the risk of looking like a dumbass at the very least, and costing your team some wins very possibly.

I was speaking more from my perspective. I definitely would have tried to replace Winston though. Him being a better player here than newton isn't saying a lot, but if they could have worked it out cap wise I'd rather then keep a guy like Winston than to play a guy like newton who is markedly worse.
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Old 10-25-2013   #211
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I was speaking more from my perspective. I definitely would have tried to replace Winston though.
Well sure. He never did make a Pro Bowl, and he gave up too many WTF sacks for my liking. But a replacement plan doesn't consist of cutting the starter and then hoping that a 7th round pick outperforms the guy that couldn't outperform the average to slightly above starter you just cut. That's just dumb.

I guess for all the talk of building a team long term and having a long term plan, it annoys me to notice that they really suck at planning.
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Old 10-25-2013   #212
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Well sure. He never did make a Pro Bowl, and he gave up too many WTF sacks for my liking. But a replacement plan doesn't consist of cutting the starter and then hoping that a 7th round pick outperforms the guy that couldn't outperform the average to slightly above starter you just cut. That's just dumb.

I guess for all the talk of building a team long term and having a long term plan, it annoys me to notice that they really suck at planning.
Not many RT make the pro bowl. LT get most of the press and most of the votes.
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Old 10-25-2013   #213
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Well sure. He never did make a Pro Bowl, and he gave up too many WTF sacks for my liking. But a replacement plan doesn't consist of cutting the starter and then hoping that a 7th round pick outperforms the guy that couldn't outperform the average to slightly above starter you just cut. That's just dumb.

I guess for all the talk of building a team long term and having a long term plan, it annoys me to notice that they really suck at planning.
But Newton wasn't plan A, it was Butler. Butler did an awesome job filling for Duane during his suspension. I honestly thought Butler was a better pass protector than Winston, but not as good in run blocking. I thought Butler would overall be a downgrade, but not by much... certainly justifying the cut to save money I thought. I don't think the FO was expecting either Butler or Newton to be better than Winston.
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Old 10-25-2013   #214
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

MIT graduate Daryl Morey lives by mantra of "Opportunity is not a lengthy visitor," fitting for all-in strategy

Read this article. It highlights the characteristics of what a CHAMPIONSHIP caliber GM is all about. Opportunity is not a lengthy visitor. I love that quote. I wish Smithiak had a TENTH of that type of urgency. It is no wonder that the Rockets are poised to contend for championships for years. Don't give me the excuse that the NBA is different. The Baltimore Ravens have consistently been a playoff team contending for Super Bowls for over a decade. They have the Morey like sense of urgency. FIRE SMITHIAK!!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports.../#twitterstfcf

I absolutely love Daryl Morey and the Rockets are by far and away the best run team in Houston with the best owner.
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Old 10-25-2013   #215
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

the NBA lets half the league into the playoffs and morey's only made it 3 of his 7 years. let's not crown anybody until they achieve something. morey plays with the team like it's a video game and the fans love all that movement. that's not the way to win in the NFL.
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Old 10-25-2013   #216
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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the NBA lets half the league into the playoffs and morey's only made it 3 of his 7 years. let's not crown anybody until they achieve something. morey plays with the team like it's a video game and the fans love all that movement. that's not the way to win in the NFL.
Keep making excuses for Smithiak. Morey deftly managed the salary cap, has found diamonds in the SECOND ROUND OF THE NBA DRAFT, moved assets and pounced on opportunity to get Harden and then attracted a STUD FA in Howard. Rick Smith whiffs on 2nd and 3rd round NFL draft picks like Brandon Harris, Sam Montgomery, Roc Carmichael, etc., extends a contract for a loser like Schaub and signs a broke-down Ed Reed. Which team do you think has a brighter future?
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Old 10-25-2013   #217
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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the NBA lets half the league into the playoffs and morey's only made it 3 of his 7 years. let's not crown anybody until they achieve something. morey plays with the team like it's a video game and the fans love all that movement. that's not the way to win in the NFL.
You must not read the basketball forum. Morey is pretty much next to God there.
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Old 10-25-2013   #218
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

the dude has to fill 10 roster spots and still cant make the playoffs. it looks like this may be a good year, but one injury and all is lost. cap and player management between the two sports arent really comparable because of the vast difference in number of players, injury frequency, and the very nature of the sports being team vs individuals. if you want to see morey in the NFL, and what all the transactions do, just look at jerry jones.
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Old 10-25-2013   #219
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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You must not read the basketball forum. Morey is pretty much next to God there.
unfortunately i'm aware. like i said, he moves players around like he's playing a video game and the fans love it. simulate through the season without caring about results - but come the offseason the wheeling and dealing begins and it's pretty exciting. and then sim the season again.
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Old 10-25-2013   #220
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Yep, it was just a matter of time and that's when it began to rear it's ugly head. Actually the crack in the damn started around the middle of November. Those .500 and > teams have a way of doing that to the Texans most of the time.
Riiiiiiggghhhtttt. Bad cap management started affecting us in December. So do bad draft picks start hurting teams in the Superbowl?

I've wasted too much time in this thread. You have a twisted reason for every statement you make and your analytical skills are severely lacking.

It is OK for a very talented team to be up against the cap. This is a very talented team. Your favorite team, Indy apparently, is under the cap because they are a young team with onegreat player and several above aaverage players that are all very young.

And in case you have forgotten, your favorite team had the best qb of all time for over a decade and only has one ring to show for it. Think about that for a minute. You think in 3 years that Luck's contract isn'tgoing to put indy in a world of hurt? Their owner was just lamenting the fact that they only won one ring with Manning. The colts are a 3 or 4 win team without Luck. The Texans will win more games than that with a QB that is half as good as luck and then they will have the chance to draft a franchise QB.

Other than luck which players do the colts have that you would take over the Texans hands down? If that list is more than three or four players we know the problem, it is your knowledge.

Mike
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