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Old 10-21-2013   #101
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by JamesBill View Post
What are you calling clean house? I agree with cutting Schaub, Reed, JJo and Foster. Those moves would not take away much talent, and would be huge for the Cap even after you sign Tate.
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Originally Posted by SchaubApologist View Post
schaub
jjo
foster
reed
daniels

not resigning:
antonio smith
ben tate

would be a good start.
I'm sorry but are you saying we cut J.Joseph and let Brice McCain be the #2 CB? And if not McCain, then who??
Seriously?? Restructure? Sure. Cut Joseph and let McCain (or whoever) start? No.

And if I have to chose between the two RBs, I'm keeping Foster and trading Ben Tate. Even if it's only for a 4th or something.

I'm fairly certain that A. Smith's contract will be restructured or he will be cut.

And I've not seen a single mention of who will replace these guys while keeping us at a competitive talent level.

I have no wish to sink back to the Cleveland/Oakland/Jacksonville level of talent where we're waiting for other teams to cut guys so we can fill up our depth chart.

And do you think J.J. Watt is gonna want to stay here if we've cut what little help he has around him?
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Old 10-22-2013   #102
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I'm gonna have to call BS on this point you keep hammering. The bottom of our roster being one of the weakest is simply not true... .
In the last 48 hours, Montgomery GONE, Wood GONE, Jefferson GONE, Dobbins GONE...hows that above argument working out for you today?
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Old 10-22-2013   #103
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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In the last 48 hours, Montgomery GONE, Wood GONE, Jefferson GONE, Dobbins GONE...hows that above argument working out for you today?

Looks like a lot of non-contributing weak-links were cast off with the exception of Wood who we can replace with nearly zero effort. a ZBS RB can be found in every bargain bin in the league.

Until we see who takes those places as well as what they do I can't say that any of those moves made much difference in the big picture.
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Old 10-22-2013   #104
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Looks like a lot of non-contributing weak-links were cast off with the exception of Wood who we can replace with nearly zero effort. a ZBS RB can be found in every bargain bin in the league.

Until we see who takes those places as well as what they do I can't say that any of those moves made much difference in the big picture.
Exactly my point, that's all they could afford.
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Old 10-22-2013   #105
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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What if the next regime wants to move on without Dre???
Not likely considering he is still a top 10 WR in this league. He isnt going anywhere until he decides he is ready to have a chance at a SB else where or retire. I personally hope he retires before then.
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Old 10-22-2013   #106
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Texian : I would try to trade Foster. The days of Alex Gibbs ZBS are days gone by. Foster is a 4 ypc or < RB today. That's nothing exceptional. With the decline of the OL it's not going to get any better, likely worse.
Will still have to disagree with you, Foster when healthy is one of the best RBs in the NFL. There is not MANY guys i would take over him. He might be a 4 ypc back, but he is the kind of RB who can carry a team on his back, and he also gets better as the game goes on. We have had pretty much zero leads this season so foster has not been able to close out a game like he does so well.
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Old 10-23-2013   #107
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
he wasted two picks on outside linebackers we didnt need and did not address the ILB and DT depth.

Has not fired joe marciano, stayed with schaub for too long, as well as kubiak. Rick smith comes off as a yes man company tool with no real autonomy or sovereignty as GM.

He lets coaches exert too much managerial control.
That's because Rick Smith is not a real GM. As you suggest Rick Smith is a yes man company tool with no real autonomy or sovereignty as GM. Rick Smith is to Gary Kubiak as Scott Pioli was to Bill Belichick. Gary Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster, it's part of his contract.
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Old 10-23-2013   #108
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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That's because Rick Smith is not a real GM. As you suggest Rick Smith is a yes man company tool with no real autonomy or sovereignty as GM. Rick Smith is to Gary Kubiak as Scott Pioli was to Bill Belichick. Gary Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster, it's part of his contract.

This has worked out well hasn't it. Welcome to mediocrity
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Old 10-23-2013   #109
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I like Case, but I just wonder how will do once teams have tape on him.....
As long as he keeps his head & doesn't start making poor decisions with the ball, tape won't matter. This is still Kubiak's system, a system that helped Matt put up nigh elite numbers. The system will get recievers open... he does need to work on his footwork & timing, but he should be alright.
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Old 10-23-2013   #110
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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I agree he's worthless. I think our problem maybe that we just need bodies at the spot. I think Keo should be getting more reps. He has been playing better than I expected.
We were supposed to have a fierce pass-rush, Reed was supposed to help capitalize on QB mistakes, make QBs think twice about going deep. It's difficult to judge Reed when we aren't pressuring the QB. A better slot corner would help out more than a better Reed would since QBs have been able to hit that slot Reciever so quickly.
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Old 10-23-2013   #111
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
If the Texans are great at cap management, why are they always up against the cap every offseason?

I've got a problem signing any player (including Cushing) that's coming off a major injury to a long term contract, especially when it's not absolutely necessary to sign an extention. Make the player play out the yr (prove he can stay healthy) and then extend the player. Kinda like the Ravens (Who are great at cap management) did with Flacco.
I think you're correct in that the problem started around the 2010 season... but it was after, not before. The Texans obviously (far as I can tell) expected an increase in the cap for the 2011, 2012, 2013, & 2014 season. Their capology was computed with that in mind, so contracts signed in 2008, 2009, 2010 are weighing much heavier on our cap than expected.

As far as signing Cushing, they gambled... it looked like a good gamble until he got hurt. He wasn't pre-injury Cushing, but he was getting better every game. Still, this might be a blessing in disguise.... he might have been pushing much harder than he should have to let his ACL fully heal. Now that he's going to be sidelined a few more months, maybe it'll properly heal. Coming back from this an LCL & broken bone is nothing compared to an ACL.

Waiting until he "proved" he was healthy (the way you said it suggests this is had more to do with his previous injury than Jamaal Charles' shoulder pads) would have raised the price, or we'd have let him go.

& I'm 100% positive the Ravens would have preferred Joey signed the contract they offered before the season that he refused. Instead, they, (like the Jets with Sanchez) over paid for their own player. If Flacco wins another Super Bowl, then it's all good & I'm wrong, but they're not going to win another Super Bowl with Joe Flacco.

Matt Schaub gambled as well, same as Flacco he told the Texans he was worth more than $60M, more than the $10M/yr avg salary they offered. But after the fans booed him week 1, he had second thoughts & offered to take the deal. Rick Smith broke his own policy to make it happen.
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Old 10-23-2013   #112
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Here is the truth, since 2010 the Texans have for every year mortgaged the future.
2006

2007

2012

2012

The Texans learned from the best. If you pay attention, you'll see over the years the Patriots, & Steelers have also restructured contracts at various times to get under the cap. That's football.

But it is interesting to see how the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, & Texans have managed the cap since 2011. Totally different approaches, but slightly different motivations. While the fans might gripe, they're willing to stuggle a little if they've already won Championships, or snagged the best QB prospect in our generation.... what the Colts is going through right now is a total surprise to all of them. Patriots.... well, that's Belichick & Brady. Steelers, Giants, Panthers.... we're not the only ones hurting.
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Old 10-23-2013   #113
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

I wouldn't lay everything bad or good at smiths feet. Kubiak was here first. That alone likely means kubiak has more than a little say in personnel decisions. Especially offensively.

I think the decision on whether to sign Matt or not was above his head. That was a McNair kubiak decision IMO.
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Old 10-24-2013   #114
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
2006

2007

2012

2012

The Texans learned from the best. If you pay attention, you'll see over the years the Patriots, & Steelers have also restructured contracts at various times to get under the cap. That's football.

But it is interesting to see how the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, & Texans have managed the cap since 2011. Totally different approaches, but slightly different motivations. While the fans might gripe, they're willing to stuggle a little if they've already won Championships, or snagged the best QB prospect in our generation.... what the Colts is going through right now is a total surprise to all of them. Patriots.... well, that's Belichick & Brady. Steelers, Giants, Panthers.... we're not the only ones hurting.
The BOTTOM LINE:....Since 2010 The Texans have started each new league year with NOT enough available salary cap dollars to meet the MINIMUM FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS of completing a 53 man roster and a 8 man practice squad.

In order to meet the minimum obligations for each of the last four years the Texans have had to resort to borrowing money from future years by restructuring players contracts. In essence the Texans took expenses of the current season and moved those expenses to be paid in future season(s) in order to remain salary cap compliant.

In addition the Texans also had to resort to releasing and trading players over this time period as another tool to reduce expenses to make it possible for the Texans meet the MINIMUM FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS of a 53 man roster and 8 player practice squad. Due to the limited salary cap funds available the Texans have not been able in most cases to replace the players lost with equal or better talent.

Compound the poor management of the salary cap, the releasing and trading of high value players, the inability to replace the lost players with equal talent and factor in years of average to below average drafts and you have all the reasons why the 2013 Texans are 2 - 5.

Last edited by Texian; 10-24-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 10-24-2013   #115
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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Compound the poor management of the salary cap, the releasing and trading of players, the inability to replace the lost players and factor in years of average to below average drafts and you have all the reasons why the 2013 Texans are 2 - 5.
So what was the reason they were 10-6 in 2011 & 12-4 in 2012? It was the same guys pulling the trigger. We're 2-5 now, because of poor cap management, blah, blah, blah......

has nothing to do with our QB scoring for the other team....... salary cap issue mismanagement or not, Schaub was going to be our starting QB in 2012.

Ed Reed or Glover Quin in the secondary has nothing to do with giving up PIs to extend drives.

We could be $40M under the cap & the fat hobbit is still 3-3 on 50 yard kicks.

You make a good argument, but you're wrong. The Texans manage the cap the same way everyone else manages the cap, Matt Schaub & his pick 6 thing has been our biggest issue.
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Old 10-24-2013   #116
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

Maybe I'm blind but I still don't see Rick Smith as having completely mismanaged the salary cap and that's caused us to suck.

Are we consistently "against the cap"? Yes... But don't confused that with "cap hell". We've got probowl top players in the league at a lot of positions and they're being paid accordingly. Duane Brown, Arian Foster, Andre Johnson, Chris Meyers, Owen Daniels, Brian Cushing. Matt Schaub is looking like the only terrible contract due to his play. Antonio Smith is getting paid handsomely but he's a solid player. Ed Reed is underperforming but they're not throwing it his way. Joseph and Manning were great the 1st year.

Look we've got a lot of players that just aren't playing up to how they should. We're in a huge slump and a lot of fault can be placed on coaching. Can Rick Smith be blamed? Sure but making him a scape goat is just ignorant.

He's built this team with a TON of talent, he's paid the players that deserve it (save Schaub) and we don't have much if any dead money. Now we'll see what happens going forward.

I view this much differently than many fans it looks like. I don't think Smith and Kubiak are tied at the hip. I think McNair would let Kubes go and keep Smith. With that said if Rick pounds on the desk in support of Kubiak and we have back to back crap seasons then I see it differently.

I think they're both here next year, Marciano is let go. And Matt Schaub is fighting got his career the rest of the season
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Old 10-24-2013   #117
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

Truth

The Colts had 1 down yr and got their QB. They also saved a huge amount of cap $$$$ by letting Manning walk. They used that cap $$$$ to sign upgrades of the OL/DB's and although there were no superstars signed, the FA's they did sign were upgrades and they can let go of the players they did sign next offeason with very little cap hit.

Grigson is a smart GM and the Colts are making moves to win a SB. Grigson isn't playing around. He wants to win and win now. The Texans are meanwhile treading water, being very conservative. Which is a trademark of the BoB regime.

Texian may be on to something, the Texans need to cleanout all of the bad contracts, extend Watt and move forward. Even if that means taking a step back next yr. Hopefully they find their QB of the future next yr either thru the draft or Keenum. If they do this next yr will be considered a sucess, regardless of their record. IMHO

If they decide to do this (be smart) instead of kicking the can down the road, I want somebody other than Rick/Gary making the calls on retooling the franchise.
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Old 10-24-2013   #118
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

The Texans are a perennially mediocre team.

They jumped on the chance presented to them when the Colts fell apart and won the division at 10-6. This is notable because that is one of the few times this organization has successfully taken advantage of an opportunity laid before them.

Last year they had a very, very good season. 12-4 for the division crown. That was an exceptional season in two senses of the word. It was exceptional in comparison to other teams that year, but it was also the exception to the Texans usual performance.

Mix in two each of 6-10 and 8-8. Don't forget the "wildly successful" 9-7.

It is almost halfway into this season and the Texans will have to improve drastically just to reach their usual, extremely average result.

It isn't just the QB, or just the coaches, or just the GM. The front office, coaches, and many players are responsible for the way this team has performed over the years. Many changes will be required to change this team from what they are: average. The GM and coaches have to go, and the new regime will take care of weeding out the players.
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Old 10-24-2013   #119
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

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So what was the reason they were 10-6 in 2011 & 12-4 in 2012? It was the same guys pulling the trigger. We're 2-5 now, because of poor cap management, blah, blah, blah......
It eventually caught up with them. For three years they couldn't get better. Cutting players and trading players without replacement of equal or better value eventually caught up with them. Poor to average drafts eventually caught up with them.

Further to your question about 2011 & 2012, the Texans success was directly related to the Colts and Titans demise (departures of Manning & Fisher). Also The Texans borrowed heavily in 2010 which had direct effects on 2011 & 2013. When you borrow money you have to pay it back, after four years of borrowing it finally caught up with them. In 2013 they had to pay the Piper.

FYI - If things remain the same the Texans will start 2014 without enough Salary Cap dollars to meet the Minimum Financial Obligations a 53 man roster, 8 practice squad players. Once again the Texans will only be able to afford rookie and vet minimums. Once again the Texans will be unable to take any steps forward to getting better. Once again it will only be more steps backwards. 2015 is a big time step back. If nothing changes come 2015 the Texans will once again be at the bottom of the division.
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Old 10-24-2013   #120
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Default Re: Rick Smith's poor job of managing the cap has closed our window for the time bein

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Truth

The Colts had 1 down yr and got their QB. They also saved a huge amount of cap $$$$ by letting Manning walk. They used that cap $$$$ to sign upgrades of the OL/DB's and although there were no superstars signed, the FA's they did sign were upgrades and they can let go of the players they did sign next offeason with very little cap hit.

Grigson is a smart GM and the Colts are making moves to win a SB. Grigson isn't playing around. He wants to win and win now. The Texans are meanwhile treading water, being very conservative. Which is a trademark of the BoB regime.

Texian may be on to something, the Texans need to cleanout all of the bad contracts, extend Watt and move forward. Even if that means taking a step back next yr. Hopefully they find their QB of the future next yr either thru the draft or Keenum. If they do this next yr will be considered a sucess, regardless of their record. IMHO

If they decide to do this (be smart) instead of kicking the can down the road, I want somebody other than Rick/Gary making the calls on retooling the franchise.


So where would the colts be without Manning's injury? That is the only reason they shed cap space, did as poorly as they did to get ther draft pick they didn and that all happend in the year in which Luck hit the draft. So tell me how well that is managing the cap or being a great GM?
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