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View Poll Results: Who gets the start at QB after the buy?
Keenum 162 88.52%
Schaub 21 11.48%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-23-2013   #281
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
IMO Kubiak has for the most part canned that play, because if you watch the last 4 games the Texans have played, the DE or LB is not crashing down the line on the play fake, they have been instructed to ignore that and go after the QB. You can see the DE or LB with his eyes directly on the QB, not even looking at the run action, even when the Texans were running the ball well.

It was the bread and butter of the Texans long play capability, and so teams decided to focus on stopping that play and basically dare the Texans to run it 30 or 40 times a game.
IMO, that's why the cutback lane has been so wide open & Arian has been running roughshod on just about everyone we've played over that same time. If Tate would run a little more patience, a little more awareness, & pick the right moment to hit the burst... he could be something special & we would run it 30 to 40 times a game.
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Old 10-23-2013   #282
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

If MS starts just remember it is Kubiak's decision not Matt's.

I have always said MS is MS. Not his fault.

The fault lies with Kubiak and Smith.

Stands should be filled with signs clarifying why we the fans are upset
.

Kubiak's recent actions make me feel he is tired of being soft and hopefully done with playing favorites even though he might have cost a win by sending them home when he did.

Could be McNair getting involved but I don't think so.

His recent actions should bode well for Keenum being named starter.
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Old 10-24-2013   #283
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
First it was more than 2 seconds, and the pocket was clean. You can see that in the previous image. All he had to do was throw the ball away, stop the clock and play another down.

In the following coaches film screen cap, it is just as Keenum decides to run, but had he just lofted the ball to either Tate our of the backfield, or Graham in the middle of the field, just before they made their breaks, he would have had a completion. But the proper play there was if nothing is there, throw it away.

From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.
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Old 10-24-2013   #284
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.
If Newton could block a fly this would all be mute, he is HORRBILE, and a majority of the sacks given up appear to come from the man he is blocking. I want Harris to start in place of Newton.
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Old 10-24-2013   #285
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by gafftop View Post
If MS starts just remember it is Kubiak's decision not Matt's.

I have always said MS is MS. Not his fault.

The fault lies with Kubiak and Smith.

Stands should be filled with signs clarifying why we the fans are upset
.
I think Kubiak should shoulder some of the blame for the Matt Schaub injury cheering.

NObody wants to see anyone get hurt & sometimes the fans are just plain wrong. But if Kubiak would have shown some "give-a-sht" Benching Matt at the end of the Seattle game & at the end of the San Francisco game (instead of just throwing in the towel the way he did)... the crowd wouldn't have been so anxious to move on. They'd have known it was a matter of time. But Kubiak gave them no choice but to hope something forces Kubiak's hand & it was going to have to be something more drastic than giving the other team the ball.

It's classless..... I didn't appreciate it. I thumped my daughter to make her stop. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand it. & I know my wife was doing cartwheels at home.
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Old 10-24-2013   #286
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.
No, Nitro is on the money. He could throw a safe pass leading the TE & RB away from the coverage. He also could have thrown it over either receivers head..... uncatchable to effectively get around an intentional grounding penalty.

The 2nd worst thing that could happen there (a pick 6 would have been the worst) was to fumble it there, recovered by the other team & that's what happened. If you're honest about it, it turns an otherwise amazing first time start into something a little more mundane (considering it was his second sack fumble). & there are some here that don't want to believe Case's first start, though promising, was more mundane than amazing.
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Old 10-24-2013   #287
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
If Newton could block a fly this would all be mute, he is HORRBILE, and a majority of the sacks given up appear to come from the man he is blocking. I want Harris to start in place of Newton.
There used to be people here who would complain because Mario Williams would allow a tackle... a RT to run him completely out of a play. That's exactly what happened to Houston right there. He's run completely out of the play. Only problem is that he & Keenum keep playing & Newton didn't.

That was a 3 step drop, the ball should have been gone.

Newton should play to the whistle... that's the kind of spark you'd expect a QB change such as this would provide, but he didn't. Which brings me back to lip service.

Was there a spark on this team?

This teams biggest issue since week 1 has been lack of effort. This teams issue since last year's Jags game has been lack of effort. You watch the Patriots & Packers & Vikings & Colts whip our a55es & it's because they played with more effort than we did. Shane Vareen & Steven Riddley & a bunch of LBs no more talented than our group out efforted us against the Pats, twice.

We can't score from 1st & goal from the 1, that's lack of effort on our part. DeAndre's a rookie, Case is just starting so my criticism of that failed play is more observation than anything else. But a little more effort from either player & that's 6 points.

Graham's failed opportunity.... a little more effort & that's 6 points. Defensively, if they played with the effort they had in the 2nd half, those 80+ yard TD drives are punts at the very least, turnovers with a little effort, defensive scores with the spark we needed.

Was there a spark..... yes, but nowhere near what we needed. There was a lot to overcome, I'm not saying any different. First time starter, ferocious pass rush (but KC was having protection issues of their own before the game started), Arian out early in the 1st, Ben was useless even before he got hurt, Cushing out...... Manning out. But we gave up that last sack on a 3 man rush, not because Newton sux..... I'm not saying he doesn't.... but because of lack of effort. & that's what cost us that game, & the St Louis game & the San Francisco game, & the Seattle game, & the Baltimore game.

They can say they support this QB, or that QB. They can say they've got his back, they can say he's not out there alone, or that "The fans don't want to hear us talk about it." It's what they do on the field that counts. Anything else, is lip service.
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Old 10-24-2013   #288
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
There used to be people here who would complain because Mario Williams would allow a tackle... a RT to run him completely out of a play. That's exactly what happened to Houston right there. He's run completely out of the play. Only problem is that he & Keenum keep playing & Newton didn't.

That was a 3 step drop, the ball should have been gone.

Newton should play to the whistle... that's the kind of spark you'd expect a QB change such as this would provide, but he didn't. Which brings me back to lip service.

Was there a spark on this team?
.

What makes you believe that was a three step drop and the ball was supposed to come out?

All the receivers are still running vertical. Look at where the sticks are, the time left in the game....a quick pass there doesn't make any sense if we are talking about the same play.


As far as was there a spark? Yes there was.
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Old 10-24-2013   #289
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Case should start after the bye.

On the play in question, I think getting beat by a 3-man rush is far more egregious than the sack/strip. Pathetic by the OL. It was perhaps Keenum's biggest error of the game - he was so totally focused downfield. I'm sure he will get coached-on for these situations and be better the next time for it....

Goes without saying he did a lot more good things than bad in the game. Should his only serious mistake be hammered into everyone's consciousness? I don't think so....
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Old 10-24-2013   #290
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spor...e36aa6cc308649

Quote:
I haven't thought about it that way," he said. "In my mind, it's been the same thing every week preparing to play. Right now, we're still kind of looking back a little bit, watching cut-ups from the previous seven weeks, just still trying to get better as a team. I just need to work on being the best quarterback I can be."

Schaub, for his part, remains mum on the topic. He hasn't spoken to the media since Kubiak announced Keenum would start in Kansas City. But during the open part of practice Tuesday, Schaub was moving around without any readily apparent limitations.
Hopefully it means he knows he is done for.
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Old 10-24-2013   #291
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Keenum was not getting help from his OL. Some interesting observations in general re. the Chiefs game. [Read from bottom to top]

Quote:
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 12m
Hali & Houston are very talented OLBs that any team would be lucky to have. Poe and Derrick Johnson on a different level.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
I had equal respect for Poe, DJ, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston going into this game. Completely different feeling after All-22 vs Texans.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
Derrick Johnson has always been a special ILB. Poe takes him to a whole new level now.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 13m
Poe is already at an elite level. He's on par with Haloti Ngata at the peak of his career. Versatile and determined. Eating humble pie.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 14m
Dontari Poe and Derrick Johnson are a deadly combo. Even when Poe's not making he plays, he's making plays.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 14m
The last sack was just a basic look that had 3 linemen come after Case Keenum. Derek Newton was just beat by Hali for sack FF & FR by DJ.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
2 more of the sacks came when Kansas City brought a CB blitz w/ Derrick Johnson. 1st time both came at Wade Smith, 2nd vs Brooks.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
Then they lined Houston & Hali outside of Duane Brown to overload his side. Texans didn't have an answer for it.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 15m
2 of the Chiefs sacks in the 4th came w/ KC lining Hali & Houston both outside of OTs on the same side of the line. 1st overloading Newton
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
Texans gave up 0 sacks in the 1st half vs KC. 1 sack in the 3rd qtr, & 4 sacks in the 4th. Chiefs got creative in 4th vs no running threat.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
Duane Brown was obviously shaken up after the sack, injury. His technique wasn't crisp & struggled to get back inside after kick out.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 16m
I was asked by a few people about Duane Brown. He played well, except after the right side gave up sack then rolled up on DB's legs.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
While all 5 sacks weren't Derek Newton's fault, all 5 happened w/ him in the game at RT. 0 sacks were given up by Texans w/ Harris at RT.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
Still funny...to me. RT @JaysonBraddock: Derek Newton still has a kick out move that is as NFL caliber as Cotton from "King of the Hill"
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 17m
cont'd RT @JaysonBraddock: Hali crashed down on the run, Brooks runs thru the hole and doesn't pick up anyone successfully.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
On a running play, Brooks pulled out & seemed loss due to Hali lining up wide of the receiver. Heard of wide 9, may have been wide 15?
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
KC has a nice blend of players on their 3-4 front. Mike DeVito was troublesome for the Texans' OL against the run.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 18m
Case Keenum played well for his 1st start, but he has to polish up several issues before the Colts' game.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 19m
Keenum also "aimed" too many passes. Once again, this is overly critical due to it being his first NFL action. He has to zip, out routes.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 19m
Keenum didn't do well at recognizing blitzes & missed his "hot" reads on a few sacks. He has to help his line out vs pressure & overload.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Reason it's obvious that it should be Keenum's offense was due to his ability to keep plays alive & eyes down field...most of the time.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Keep hearing that Kubiak is conservative & doesn't try anything new. Also heard that he'd never go to "gimic" pistol, zone read, etc.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 20m
Keenum played out of pistol for the whole game. He even ran some zone read, including the DeVier Posey play.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 21m
On zone read pass to Posey, he stops play fake early, due to Posey's window closing. Veteran zone read, move. Most would finish tuck/pull
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 21m
On out route to Hopkins, Keenum aimed the pass, which led to it being placed behind him. He's being cautious. Fine game 1, changes game 2
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 22m
Biggest mistake? VS single high safety LB, passes Graham off to safety who's turned away from Graham's seam route. Would of been 75 yd TD
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 22m
Hate beating a dead horse, but Ben Tate continued to prove that he's not a zone runner. Cuts take to long for timing windows.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 23m
On the deep throw to Garrett Graham, Andre Johnson destroyed Derrick Johnson on the pick to open Graham up. Several more picks vs KC for AJ.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 28m
After studying Texans offense yesterday, I tweeted out some notes last night. I'll send a few back out now.
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Old 10-24-2013   #292
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

I want to see the adjustments with case. I want to see better reads by case the next time around against a blitz. off line didn't do well, coach could read the blitz's, and so with keenum.

with that said, the guy (can't remember the name) that worked with case for the combine (he also worked with romo and some other great qb's) said that case was the smartest QB he's worked with.

case is a great QB in the making. I want to beef up the off line and get some linebackers. draft a low QB too..

you don't win a championship in high school, break several NCAA records, do great in the preseason and play against the best defense in the chiefs and call it a fluke. if the Texan's can commit that Case is the man, the team can move forward and not be in limbo.
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Old 10-24-2013   #293
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post

You know what I get from that picture? Look at Newton. He's not riding his guy out wide. Look at his feet, look at his hips. He's beat. The man should not be playing in the NFL. That is a piss poor job of blocking.

Also, no one is open. What Keenum is definitely guilty of here is waiting for something to develop. You can't do that on your own goal line. He's trying too hard.
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Old 10-25-2013   #294
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

This is a great in-detail, honest, unbiased analysis, including multiple supporting illustrative screenshots, of the KC game and Keenum's play and Kubiak' play calling......A must read!


Quote:
Posted October 24, 2013
The All-22: Texans opened the playbook for Case Keenum before Chiefs closed it back up
Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, The All-22

Kubiak may be well-served by giving Keenum another shot, whether Schaub is healthy or not. He’s shown obvious inexperience, and things will become more complicated as opposing defensive coordinators get more tape on him, but it’s pretty clear that he brings an expansiveness to an offense that has been mired in predictability for far too long.
THE REST OF THE STORY
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Old 10-25-2013   #295
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Every time we play the Chiefs I'm reminded that Charlie Casserly could have taken Derrick Johnson but instead traded back and selected Travis Johnson. Apparently he could not hear me screaming at my radio at the time.

Every time I think of that I die just a little bit on the inside.
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Old 10-25-2013   #296
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Keenum was far from satisfied with his play Sunday (Dale Robertson).

Quote:
Crunch time irks QB

Without a healthy running back in the second half - Arian Foster was out with an encore hamstring tweak, and Ben Tate tried to play with multiple broken ribs, but his four post-halftime carries were for 1, minus-1, 0 and 1 yard - the Chiefs ratcheted up pressure on Keenum until he was being buried on almost every play. Already leading the NFL in sacks, they exploited the Texans' single-dimension offense and the quarterback's inexperience with vigor, dumping him for sizable losses on three successive third downs before crushing him one last time on second-and-10, finally forcing the fumble that would be the Texans' lone turnover on the afternoon.

Kansas City was sending more rushers than the Texans had blockers, and Keenum didn't yet possess the wherewithal or acumen to adjust accordingly on the fly. However, after replaying the situations repeatedly both in his mind and on the video screen, he promised it wouldn't happen to him the same way next time, whenever that next time comes.

"The sacks were on me," he said. "But I won't make the same mistakes twice."

A road warrior in the making?

Case Keenum posted a higher quarterback rating in his first NFL road start than any Houston quarterback who preceded him. How his numbers in Kansas City compared to those posted by the city's most prominent:

Player Year Week Opp. Result Cmp. Att. Pct. Yds. TD Int. Rating

Dan Pastorini 1971 6 at Steelers L 23-16 17 3450.0 191 0 1 54.9

Warren Moon 1984 1 at Chargers L 31-14 11 3135.5 212 1 0 70.9

Steve McNair 1995 16 at Buffalo W 28-17 12 2646.2 168 1 0 80.3

David Carr 2002 2 at Chargers L 24-3 6 2524.0 87 0 2 8.2

Matt Schaub* 2004 15 at Saints L 41-17 17 4141.5 188 0 2 35.4

T. J. Yates 2011 13 at Bengals W 20-19 26 4459.0 300 2 1 85.4

Case Keenum 2013 7 at Chiefs L 17-16 15 2560.0 271 1 0 110.6
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Old 10-25-2013   #297
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Colin Kaepernick's first start (albeit at home)
W 32-7 16 comp 23 att 69.6% 243 yards 10.6 ypa 2TD 0 Ints 1 sack 133.1 rate 0 fumbles

I think this is most comparable since he was not the starter & only had 1 week to prepare as the starter. Granted as the #2 he was being prepared similar to the starter & he took garbage time snaps before his first start.

Andrew Luck after OTAs & Training camp as the starter
@CHI L 23 comp 45 att 51.1pct 309 yards 6.9 ypa 1 TD 3 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble

Russell Wilson won the starting job in the preseason
@ ARI W 58-0 18 comp 34 att 52.9 pct 153 yards 4.5 ypa 1 TD 1 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble


I know some people say it's ludicrous to compare Case Keenum to Andrew Luck. But those three guys are considered to be "franchise" QBs. If the idea is to see if Keenum can be a franchise guy, I don't know who else to compare him to.

& Keenum compares well after 1 start. Playing a tougher defense, statistically, with less preperation.
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Old 10-25-2013   #298
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Colin Kaepernick's first start (albeit at home)
W 32-7 16 comp 23 att 69.6% 243 yards 10.6 ypa 2TD 0 Ints 1 sack 133.1 rate 0 fumbles

I think this is most comparable since he was not the starter & only had 1 week to prepare as the starter. Granted as the #2 he was being prepared similar to the starter & he took garbage time snaps before his first start.

Andrew Luck after OTAs & Training camp as the starter
@CHI L 23 comp 45 att 51.1pct 309 yards 6.9 ypa 1 TD 3 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble

Russell Wilson won the starting job in the preseason
@ ARI W 58-0 18 comp 34 att 52.9 pct 153 yards 4.5 ypa 1 TD 1 INT 3 sacks 1 fumble


I know some people say it's ludicrous to compare Case Keenum to Andrew Luck. But those three guys are considered to be "franchise" QBs. If the idea is to see if Keenum can be a franchise guy, I don't know who else to compare him to.

& Keenum compares well after 1 start. Playing a tougher defense, statistically, with less preperation.
Thanks for those extra stats.
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Old 10-25-2013   #299
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
From what you've shown here everyone is covered.
Case is still inside the "tackle box". If he "throws it away" now... from here... it's intentional grounding. He has to take off and run to get outside the tackle box to even have that option. Throwing it, from here, in the direction of the RB or the TE, Graham, risks a pick six.

What you suggest is a very risky option.

His only option is to run outside the tackle box so he can toss it away without penalty.

Unfortunately, he didn't make it.
absolutely. it would have been intentional grounding. Keenum took the sack like a real man unlike schaub who would have been so scared to be sacked that he would have thrown it away to get intercepted for a pick six.
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Old 10-25-2013   #300
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

from doc's all 22 link

Quote:
We knew he could throw the ball. Him in that shotgun-type of look, where he looks like hes going to hand it off, sometimes that slows the rush down because [you dont know] if it could be a run, or it could be a pass. Once we know it is a pass, we can go after him.
and this is why you keep a back in at this level. you have to at least threaten the run, even if running doesnt work. you also have to keep the back in for blitz pickup to prevent a free rusher. this becomes infinitely more important when you have a young quarterback who's not as able to protect himself with hot reads and only a week to prepare.
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