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View Poll Results: Who gets the start at QB after the buy?
Keenum 162 88.52%
Schaub 21 11.48%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-23-2013   #241
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
You do understand that was not the Texans offensive scheme right? That they basically ran plays from Keenum's College days so that he would do well? You understand that is why he was moving the ball on the Chiefs so easily right? Caught them off guard in the first half for sure as they were expecting the Texans offensive scheme.

But you see what happened in the 2nd half right? After the Chiefs figured out what the Texans were trying to do and adjusted? But you also realize that the Texans are not going to continue to run the spread offense the rest of the year right? So what does Keenum look like when he is running the Texans offensive scheme? We didn't get to see that, so we do not know anything other than you caught a team off guard for a half of football that was not expecting the spread offense from the Texans.



Thank goodness, I was beginning to think I might have to keep listening to comments from your side of the gene pool.



Awwwe, how sweet. Well aren't you two a cute couple now!
I didn't realize that scrambling out to the sidelines, then coming back and throwing a perfect ball across your body 40 yards down the field was in our playbook. Thanks.
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Old 10-23-2013   #242
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Of course you throw the ball away, stop the clock and prevent a turnover from happening. Have more chances to get in FG range. There is a such a play in the NFL. It's called "common knowledge on three, ready? BREAK!"
I think that's a very important point to remember. We only needed a field goal. & what we saw, I think Keenum was trying to make a play instead of living to play another down.

It would have been great & he'd have been a hero had he made something out of that one.... but there's a balance & we're going to see how that balances out with Keenum if he continues to play. I think it's safe to say most here are not comfortable with where that risk/rewards balance settled with Schaub.
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Old 10-23-2013   #243
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
You do understand that was not the Texans offensive scheme right? That they basically ran plays from Keenum's College days so that he would do well? You understand that is why he was moving the ball on the Chiefs so easily right? Caught them off guard in the first half for sure as they were expecting the Texans offensive scheme.

But you see what happened in the 2nd half right? After the Chiefs figured out what the Texans were trying to do and adjusted? But you also realize that the Texans are not going to continue to run the spread offense the rest of the year right? So what does Keenum look like when he is running the Texans offensive scheme? We didn't get to see that, so we do not know anything other than you caught a team off guard for a half of football that was not expecting the spread offense from the Texans.


Nitro, I am a Cougars fan since 1975.
I had watched plenty of Keenum.
That was not Cougars offense; it was 100% Texans offense.

When I ask you to watch more football, I'm quite serious.
It's not a knock; the last 4-5 years. I'm on football as a 70-80 hour a week job.
I don't claim that I know everything about football, but I do try to learn and watch a lot.
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Old 10-23-2013   #244
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think that's a very important point to remember. We only needed a field goal. & what we saw, I think Keenum was trying to make a play instead of living to play another down.

It would have been great & he'd have been a hero had he made something out of that one.... but there's a balance & we're going to see how that balances out with Keenum if he continues to play. I think it's safe to say most here are not comfortable with where that risk/rewards balance settled with Schaub.
TK, please rewatch the play again; there was no time to throw the ball away!!!
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Old 10-23-2013   #245
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
You do understand that was not the Texans offensive scheme right? That they basically ran plays from Keenum's College days so that he would do well? You understand that is why he was moving the ball on the Chiefs so easily right? Caught them off guard in the first half for sure as they were expecting the Texans offensive scheme.
You do understand this is the same strategy that got RGIII, Russell Wilson, & Andrew Luck into the play-offs last season don't you? How can you not be on board with this strategy?

& you make it sound like we sht canned the whole book & that's not the case. That bootleg that set Graham up..... we've run that many times in the past. The bootleg is a big part of our system, but we've basically scrapped that with Schaub under center since it appears the word around the NFL is that's the only way Schaub can hurt them. If the backside defender doesn't chase the run..... we're not going to run the bootleg......

So we put things in & take things out all the time. That's the way it is in the NFL.
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Old 10-23-2013   #246
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
TK, please rewatch the play again; there was no time to throw the ball away!!!
I thought you said he left the pocket at the second mark. That's a lifetime against that pass rush.
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Old 10-23-2013   #247
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I thought you said he left the pocket at the second mark. That's a lifetime against that pass rush.
But the play called for him to step up the pocket.
Watch it again. If he tried to throw the ball, it would have been batted down.
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Old 10-23-2013   #248
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
You do understand this is the same strategy that got RGIII, Russell Wilson, & Andrew Luck into the play-offs last season don't you? How can you not be on board with this strategy?

& you make it sound like we sht canned the whole book & that's not the case. That bootleg that set Graham up..... we've run that many times in the past. The bootleg is a big part of our system, but we've basically scrapped that with Schaub under center since it appears the word around the NFL is that's the only way Schaub can hurt them. If the backside defender doesn't chase the run..... we're not going to run the bootleg......

So we put things in & take things out all the time. That's the way it is in the NFL.
The Texans started the game with two outside zone run.
The third play was a faked zone run when Keenum completed a pass to AJ.
The fourth play was another faked zone run when Keenum rolled out on the bootleg and threw the ball across his body. Graham had both hands on the ball but couldn't pull it in.
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Old 10-23-2013   #249
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
But the play called for him to step up the pocket.
Watch it again. If he tried to throw the ball, it would have been batted down.
The midget? Or Schaub?


Look, I'm happy for your boy. He took a damn good shot with the opportunity given him. I think the right thing to do would be to give him another start. I'm fairly sure, damn near positive, Kubiak will do the right thing.

But this is going to be one of the things they'll talk about when they go over the film (I think they already did). Keenum knows he's got to do better in that situation & he knows, I'm sure, that he could have done better.

He's getting a pass for basically giving the game away on that play......


let it go.
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Old 10-23-2013   #250
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

One of the plays that Keenum missed was on third and 4 with about 4:37 to go.

He failed to see Jean wide open for a first down on the hot read.
He was looking left first and missed that easy one.
That one was totally on him.
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Old 10-23-2013   #251
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Nitro, I am a Cougars fan since 1975.
I had watched plenty of Keenum.
That was not Cougars offense; it was 100% Texans offense.

When I ask you to watch more football, I'm quite serious.
It's not a knock; the last 4-5 years. I'm on football as a 70-80 hour a week job.
I don't claim that I know everything about football, but I do try to learn and watch a lot.
I will agree it was not totally Cougars playbook, but it was not the Texans either. It was a hybrid installed for Keenum. Very few of those plays were the same plays Schaub ran. Nearly every play was from the pistol formation, and while we have seen Schaub in that formation a few times, it was not for an entire game. Please do not try to convince me that the Texans run 99% of their plays from the pistol with Schaub in the game, or that those are the same routes they run from their normal formations, because it is NOT true.

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you in regards to who watches more football. I respect your opinion, but will remind you that two people can watch the same event and see two completely different things.

You are saying Keenum did not have time to throw it away, and that it would have been batted down. Even if that were true a batted pass would have been more desirable then a sack/fumble.

You do not get cute down around your own goal line, let alone with 1:41 and no timeouts left with the win on the line, and if you are not willing to admit that than we will just have to agree to disagree.

In the coaches film screen cap below, it is clear that Keenum's feet are set, there are no open receivers, and there is plenty of time and space, in a clean pocket to throw the ball away, but instead Keenum gets cute, trying too hard to be the hero in that moment and make something happen and ends up losing the game.

The Chiefs only rushed 3, and were using a LB as a spy on Keenum so he was not going to run for any yardage if he tried. You have to know the situation, and throw the ball away on 2nd and 10, not scramble around at your own goal line trying to make something happen with some of the best pass rushers in the game and a suspect offensive line. You just don't do it.

If you are saying he gets a pass because it was his first game, blaa, blaa, blaa, that is one thing, but to deny what I have said (and shown) is completely dishonest, and smacks of fan boy analysis. Perhaps you are just too close to this.

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Last edited by Nitrofish; 10-23-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013   #252
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Nitro, like I said in one of these Keenum's thread; the Texans can still run all of their normal plays from the pistol.

The only difference is where the QB lines up.

The Cougars don't run the pistol.

....

On the last play; the Chiefs rushed 3, used one to contain or spy, and one to cover the RB.

With 3 rushers, a QB should expect better protection, shouldn't he?
Why should he be in hurry to throw the ball away.
You don't do that against a 3-man pass rush.

If your line cannot handle a 3-man pass rush for 2 seconds, your team is going to lose the game.
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Old 10-23-2013   #253
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

And I do have the All-22 film, too.
You can't just take one screen shot to come to a conclusion that the pocket was clean.
I wish there's a simulation software that allows you to go on with the play as if the QB attempt to throw the ball.

At any rate, it was not desperate time for the QB to just throw the ball away.
But that's besides the point.
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Old 10-23-2013   #254
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Nitro, like I said in one of these Keenum's thread; the Texans can still run all of their normal plays from the pistol.

The only difference is where the QB lines up.

The Cougars don't run the pistol.

....

On the last play; the Chiefs rushed 3, used one to contain or spy, and one to cover the RB.

With 3 rushers, a QB should expect better protection, shouldn't he?
Why should he be in hurry to throw the ball away.
You don't do that against a 3-man pass rush.

If your line cannot handle a 3-man pass rush for 2 seconds, your team is going to lose the game.
First it was more than 2 seconds, and the pocket was clean. You can see that in the previous image. All he had to do was throw the ball away, stop the clock and play another down.

In the following coaches film screen cap, it is just as Keenum decides to run, but had he just lofted the ball to either Tate our of the backfield, or Graham in the middle of the field, just before they made their breaks, he would have had a completion. But the proper play there was if nothing is there, throw it away.

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Last edited by Nitrofish; 10-23-2013 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013   #255
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Again, somewhere in one of these threads, I said I would put that play squarely on Keenum if it was a quarter to a half of a second longer.
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Old 10-23-2013   #256
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
And I do have the All-22 film, too.
You can't just take one screen shot to come to a conclusion that the pocket was clean.
I wish there's a simulation software that allows you to go on with the play as if the QB attempt to throw the ball.

At any rate, it was not desperate time for the QB to just throw the ball away.
But that's besides the point.
Really? If 2nd and 10, on your own 10 yard line, with 1:41 on the clock, no time outs, trailing by 1 on the road with a rookie QB at the helm is not desperate times, then nothing is. The game was on the line, it was desperation time, and it needed a calm, quick thinking experienced QB to make the right decision, and that is throw it away, not get cute on your own goal line.
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Old 10-23-2013   #257
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Nitro, at that time Keenum was on the retreat and he got out of the pocket within 3 seconds.

Graham was bumped hard by his defender; he can't clear it in time.

Tate never got open until late; he was being double-teamed.

Keenum cannot extend his arm to throw the ball anyway.
The RDE would have gotten to the ball.
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Old 10-23-2013   #258
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
Really? If 2nd and 10, on your own 10 yard line, with 1:41 on the clock, no time outs, trailing by 1 on the road with a rookie QB at the helm is not desperate times, then nothing is. The game was on the line, it was desperation time, and it needed a calm, quick thinking experienced QB to make the right decision, and that is throw it away, not get cute on your own goal line.
The attempt to throw the ball is more risky as I have described above.

The option is to run toward the sideline; there was a lot of green space there as the defense was double-teaming on AJ way down the field.
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Old 10-23-2013   #259
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

Look at the front view from the coaches film; there wasn't a chance that Keenum can even raise his arm to throw the ball away.

He would have been dead duck.
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Old 10-23-2013   #260
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Default Re: Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

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Nitro, at that time Keenum was on the retreat and he got out of the pocket within 3 seconds.

Graham was bumped hard by his defender; he can't clear it in time.

Tate never got open until late; he was being double-teamed.

Keenum cannot extend his arm to throw the ball anyway.
The RDE would have gotten to the ball.
He never retreated. He dropped back, surveyed, slide left and tried to run. By then it was too late. You do not waste precious time trying to run to the sideline when you can throw it there three times faster. By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down. All of the defenders were engaged and not likely to bat anything down.

In the first image I posted, you can see nobody is within 3-5 yards of Keenum and he has plenty of room to extend his arm to throw it away bro. Come on now, you are grasping at straws to show your boy was not at fault when it is clear he was. Regardless of how long we argue this, people will believe whatever they want, regardless of evidence.

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The attempt to throw the ball is more risky as I have described above.

The option is to run toward the sideline; there was a lot of green space there as the defense was double-teaming on AJ way down the field.
I disagree with you, and as I said above "By your logic QB's should never throw it because there is a pass rush and it might get batted down." You can throw to the sideline much faster than you can run there and time was precious.

Let's just agree to disagree.
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