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Old 10-22-2013   #2081
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by tedr View Post
The bolded part is the most important part, and is spot on. This is Kubiak's 8th season. He has made the playoffs twice, and has two playoff wins. I don't know of any coach recently in the NFL that has had this many years with one team with this little success. If there is, please correct me.
Minus 1999, Jeff Fisher. Actually, Kubiak has a worst record and less playoff succes than Fish, and I always felt Fisher was ridicukously overrated in this category (see 2000, 2003, 2004, 2008)
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Old 10-22-2013   #2082
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
So, season ticket holders aren't important? Nope. Ain't buying it.

Most season ticket holders have accepted the PSL - which were usually paid years ago - as a sunk cost. True, no one wants to give that sunk cost up, but a lot of ticket holders will weigh giving up that sunk cost against constantly rising costs of tickets for a meidocre team.

Also, owners get quite a bit of revenue from parking (which, at Reliant, has almost doubled over the last several years) and concessions.

You cannot raise ticket prices when the product does not warrant it. You can't. That's why McNair kept ticket prices at one level for several years, and then raised them the year after we went 9-7.
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2083
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
Very true and this article breaks down just how crazy wealthy the NFL is, and why they could easily pay $750M to players. Look at the revenue!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbade...th-26-billion/

Financial terms have not been released, but the three networks are expected to pay roughly $3 billion a year on average annually compared to the current $1.93 billion they collectively pay. ESPN re-upped its deal with the NFL earlier this year at an annual rate of $1.9 billion. Factor in other media deals with the NFL Network, DirectTV ($1 billion annually), Westwood One radio and others, and NFL teams will divvy up nearly $7 billion in media money starting in 2014. That is more than $200 million per team every year before one ticket, beer or jersey is sold.

Its also worth noting that since he got the team, the value of the Texans has increased over 400 million, minimum. These guys aren't billionaires by accident.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2084
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
Speak for yourself. You are not important, but, I - and other fans - are. No, I'm not being naieve.

Also, when did I say the majority of revenue comes from parking and concessions? I said a lot of it does. You are correct: most of it comes from tv contracts.

Speaking of which, exactly how do you think tv contract amounts are set? By ratings. And guess who ratings are determined? By the number of people watching a particular game. That's why the Texans freaked several years ago when tv stations in Beaumont-Port Arthur and Austin stopped carrying their games. The know that eyeballs = tv ratings = revenue.

But, guess what? You're likely to lose viewers if you don't build your FAN BASE.

A strong, loyal fan base keeps the tv contract money flowing.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2085
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
Who watches the games on TV? It always comes back to the fans.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2086
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think.
Bob McNair cannot afford to lose fan support.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2087
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
If your fan base becomes disinterested in your product, they stop showing up and buying tickets, stop putting butts in your seats.. and your games get blacked out and stop getting shown on TV. You then start losing sponsorship money from a crap load of local companies who want to associate themselves with the team in order to sell their product to the fans.. So this goes way beyond just "ticket revenue, parking, and concession sales". Everybody wants to be a part of a winner and a winner that has people beating down their door to get in and buy their product.. it's good for business.

Trust me, NcNair cares about what the fans think of his team.. it's why he's always cared so much about P.R. I mean it sure is a hell of a lot easier to get brand new shiny T.V.s paid for and installed in your stadium when you have some of the best fan support in the entire league.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2088
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
So, season ticket holders aren't important? Nope. Ain't buying it.
I'm not selling. I never said that season ticket holders are not important.

But, please explain to me how season ticket holders will somehow demand answers from Bob McNair.

Your exact statement: "Bob McNair will have to answer to season ticket holders"

How?

Perhaps I assumed you meant by turning in their season tickets with my reply. Because this is the only way McNair gets that message.

If not, what do you propose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Most season ticket holders have accepted the PSL - which were usually paid years ago - as a sunk cost. True, no one wants to give that sunk cost up, but a lot of ticket holders will weigh giving up that sunk cost against constantly rising costs of tickets for a meidocre team.
It did not happen after 2-14.

It did not happen after 6-10 in Kubiak's fourth season.

You speak for ALL season ticket holders? How?

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Also, owners get quite a bit of revenue from parking (which, at Reliant, has almost doubled over the last several years) and concessions.

You cannot raise ticket prices when the product does not warrant it. You can't. That's why McNair kept ticket prices at one level for several years, and then raised them the year after we went 9-7.
As already eloquently explained by Marcus and Toronto, parking passes and game tickets are a small percentage of the overall profit that teams take in.

31 TEAMS IN THE NFL MAKES A PROFIT EVERY SEASON. (The exception is the Lions, who reside in a third world country and have crappy management - see hiring Matt Millen as an example)

Profit. In spite of records. Profit. In spite of ticket sales. Profit. In spite of merchandising sales.

Certainly successful teams make more profit than others. But that does not change the basic fact that virtually all teams make a profit. Every season.

Shared revenue was instituted decades ago to ensure that NFL teams turn a profit every season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wrong on all counts. The owners get the significant money from the TV contracts. The fans and parking is insignificant window dressing.

Bob McNair could CARE LESS what the fans think. WHY? Because they are just not all that important. Quit believing that tired myth that the fans are important because "they pay the players' salaries". THEY DON'T. They are nothing but loose pocket change at best.

YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
QFT. This times 1000. All the bellyaching, protesting, bitching and moaning, or whatever else fans try to do to get the attention of owners is pointless.

Besides, McNair has already said that he doesn't listen to fans. Most of the time I consider that a good thing.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2089
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

For anyone delusional enough to think McNair hears you:

Quote:
Bob McNair: Texans playing hard

"How could anybody get a team playing harder than this team is playing?" McNair said. "I don't know how anybody can criticize him. You tell me. How are you going to get them to play harder than that when you've got two of your best players out, your starting quarterback is out. You're still out there playing right down to the wire. What more can you ask of your coaches?"

"I think the team performed very well today," McNair said. "I don't know how you're going to do better."

Dated Sunday, 20 October 2013
Now some might say that this is just owner speak. But that some has not been paying attention to Bob McNair for the past 11 years. He says stuff like this because he believes stuff like this.

So get out your placards and get ready to march on Kirby. It won't make a difference, of course, but you can at least have the satisfaction that you did...."something".
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Old 10-22-2013   #2090
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
For anyone delusional enough to think McNair hears you:



Now some might say that this is just owner speak. But that some has not been paying attention to Bob McNair for the past 11 years. He says stuff like this because he believes stuff like this.

So get out your placards and get ready to march on Kirby. It won't make a difference, of course, but you can at least have the satisfaction that you did...."something".
Yup, which is why I've been saying we're stuck like chuck for at least another year. Status quo, man, status quo

Quite depressing, to say the least
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Old 10-22-2013   #2091
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

At least McNair is a nice lovable dumbass, not like the evil dumbass we used to have.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2092
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Yup, which is why I've been saying we're stuck like chuck for at least another year. Status quo, man, status quo

Quite depressing, to say the least
Exactly. We have to know our limits and not expect things that are unrealistic.

McNair, to his credit, probably thinks he has the eternal goodwill of the city for bringing pro football back to Houston.

And if he ever listened to fans, it would have been at the beginning and understood that he just had to be the anti-Bud.

Seen through that prism, it all makes sense.

And if he did listen to fans, I still think we would all be moaning about how far back the VY pick left this franchise.

Infinite patience, man. That is what is required to be a Texans fan. Otherwise, a fan could drive himself crazy every season.

Quote:
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At least McNair is a nice lovable dumbass, not like the evil dumbass we used to have.
yep! If you put yourself in the patent-pending "Bob McNair Reality Bubble", you quickly realize that Kubiak is a long-term project.

McNair has stated that he admires Tom Landry, who did not have a winning season for five years. McNair admires the Steelers, who stay loyal to coaches (not necessarily realizing that the loyalty was born from championships, but whatever).

McNair sees a good time at his games. Nevermind the fact that it's all scripted, it is still a party! And look at that parking lot! So many people gettin' down and tailgating. This is more than just a game. It's an EVENT!! And fun for the whole family!

He's not Bud Adams, which is obviously a good thing. But, not to defend the recently departed, we never questioned Bud's desire to win a championship. His methods were maddening, but his desire was in the right place.

And while I have no doubt that McNair wants to win a championship, what is evident is that the fans are starting to question his methods, as well.

But, like Bud, McNair will not cave to fan desires.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2093
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

After Kubiak's comments about still evaluating his quarterbacks and that Matt is the starter but was injured, I am now for the FIRST time in the history of my time on Texans Talk am donning the pink (in this case blue) fire Kubiak soap.

Screw the idiot. He has absolutely no clue how to manage a football team.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2094
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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After Kubiak's comments about still evaluating his quarterbacks and that Matt is the starter but was injured, I am now for the FIRST time in the history of my time on Texans Talk am donning the pink (in this case blue) fire Kubiak soap.

Screw the idiot. He has absolutely no clue how to manage a football team.
Welcome to the dark side.

Or in your case, the blue side.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2095
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Exactly. We have to know our limits and not expect things that are unrealistic.

McNair, to his credit, probably thinks he has the eternal goodwill of the city for bringing pro football back to Houston.

And if he ever listened to fans, it would have been at the beginning and understood that he just had to be the anti-Bud.

Seen through that prism, it all makes sense.

And if he did listen to fans, I still think we would all be moaning about how far back the VY pick left this franchise.

Infinite patience, man. That is what is required to be a Texans fan. Otherwise, a fan could drive himself crazy every season.



yep! If you put yourself in the patent-pending "Bob McNair Reality Bubble", you quickly realize that Kubiak is a long-term project.

McNair has stated that he admires Tom Landry, who did not have a winning season for five years. McNair admires the Steelers, who stay loyal to coaches (not necessarily realizing that the loyalty was born from championships, but whatever).

McNair sees a good time at his games. Nevermind the fact that it's all scripted, it is still a party! And look at that parking lot! So many people gettin' down and tailgating. This is more than just a game. It's an EVENT!! And fun for the whole family!

He's not Bud Adams, which is obviously a good thing. But, not to defend the recently departed, we never questioned Bud's desire to win a championship. His methods were maddening, but his desire was in the right place.

And while I have no doubt that McNair wants to win a championship, what is evident is that the fans are starting to question his methods, as well.

But, like Bud, McNair will not cave to fan desires.
Great post, DB. Bob McNair is certainly first on the list as deserving of blame in this whole situation. But sadly, we can't do anything about Bob McNair so we have to move on down the hierarchy to the people we can get rid of. So that leaves Kubiak, his coaches, and Rick Smith.

Personally, I think Rick Smith has done an ok job as GM but even still, our team is lackluster as far as depth is concerned. We find ourselves in cap hell, and his second and third rounders have been pretty much garbage during his tenure. I know there have been a couple hits in those rounds but overall, our stars are either late round picks, undrafted, or first rounders. We simply aren't finding the talent in the middle rounds of the draft, and that is unacceptable.

If Kubiak stays after this season though, I might be looking for a new team to root for. I have to unhitch myself from this wagon and quit going through the emotional roller coaster that is being a Houston Texans fan.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2096
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

I could deal with all the secrets if we were winning championships, but they act like telling something as simple as who is starting the next game is going to equal an automatic loss.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2097
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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I could deal with all the secrets if we were winning championships, but they act like telling something as simple as who is starting the next game is going to equal an automatic loss.
That's because Kubiak plays not to lose...good and great coaches just play to win. It's that simple with Kubiak he is a flat out loser.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2098
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

Kubiak is 61-58 as head coach of the Texans. If we go 3-6 to finish out the year, he will be 64-64, which seems fitting for his tenure here. Average is as average does.
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Old 10-22-2013   #2099
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Kubiak is 61-58 as head coach of the Texans. If we go 3-6 to finish out the year, he will be 64-64, which seems fitting for his tenure here. Average is as average does.
wow....man, how appropriate would that be?!...

and 3-6 is not unrealistic!
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Old 10-22-2013   #2100
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Default Re: The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

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Originally Posted by utahmark View Post
Who watches the games on TV? It always comes back to the fans.
But because one team sucks do you think the NFL will fold? Naaah... the big mkt East Coast teams and some of the vintage teams (Vikes, Bears,
Cowboys, Pack, even the Browns, etc.) will keep the TV revenues huge and that's where they make their money.

Trust me, if all of Houston stopped going to the games and every game had to be blacked out because no one came, McNair could cash in at the end of that year and this franchise would probably head out west. Or maybe they'd be moved to Europe and be renamed the "Londoners"...

NFL wouldn't miss a beat.
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