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Old 10-21-2013   #201
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
A much tougher test is when you have to keep up the pace with a great qb. They got indy coming up post bye and we will see more from case.
I can't wait.

No doubt in my mind Case will start, no doubt in my mind that he'll statistically play a better game than Andrew Luck... may not throw as many TDs, but ypa, completion percentage, total yards...... Keenum's numbers are going to be more like a starting QB's.
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Old 10-21-2013   #202
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You should compare him to other starting QBs in the league to determine if he played well overall. In that regard, he played ok.
let's compare case then to the other qb's against the the chiefs. who was the best?

who had the least amount of experience?
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Old 10-21-2013   #203
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
By the way, another childish trait is "I told you so threads", especially after one game. Sure, none of us want to be wrong; so far, it looks like I was wrong on Case, but before ANYONE eats crow, we need to see more than 1 game (or one quarter, smh)
I wasn't wrong. Three things I said I wanted to see before I jumped on the "start Keenum" bandwagon.
  1. Don't do anything stupid
  2. Don't fumble on a sack
  3. Be that spark that gets this run game/defense to dominate

That's all I wanted. He did not do anything stupid. Good.

He fumbled when he was sacked. Not good. Especially considering the situation. As bad as everyone thinks Kubiak did yesterday, given the circumstances (on the road, great defense, awesome pass rush, brand new QB) the best he could have done was to coach a close game with the ball in our hands...... needing a field goal to win. & that's where we were.

There was a spark, we generated some turnovers... but we gave up two 80+ yard TD scoring drives to an offense with one good player. We gave up a 3rd & 21 from their 23 (no score on the drive because Reid gambled on 4th down instead of kicking an 18 yard field goal).

Offensively too many third downs we didn't convert to be able to say there was a spark. 3rd & long, how many of those do you think we converted? 3rd & short, we did fine. 3rd & long, not much better than before & that's not on the QB, I'm not blaming the QB at all.... I'm just saying if there was a spark, if this team was actually playing harder than they had in the past, they would have picked up 3rd & long more frequently than we did before.

None of our QBs give us a chance to win if the rest of the team plays the way they play.

But I think Gary has better tools to work with... with Keenum, so I want Keenum to start even though he fumbled the ball when he got sacked (he's going to get sacked again, I hope he doesn't fumble the ball again). Even though this team did not respond.

If I could be convinced that Schaub would throw the ball downfield, maybe I'd consider Schaub, but asking him to do that makes him self conscious about doing that, which makes him telegraph his throws, which leads to pick 6s...... which makes me wonder why he'd even consider it in the first place.

So yeah, I was wrong. Not about Case, he played great considering but that Kubiak would take a shot on 3rd & 3 from field goal range. I'll have to go back & see if Kubiak actually did call it, but Matt wussed out, it'll be hard to tell, since Matt has the leeway to seemlessly change it to a run play.
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Old 10-21-2013   #204
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I wasn't wrong. Three things I said I wanted to see before I jumped on the "start Keenum" bandwagon.
  1. Don't do anything stupid
  2. Don't fumble on a sack
  3. Be that spark that gets this run game/defense to dominate

That's all I wanted. He did not do anything stupid. Good.

He fumbled when he was sacked. Not good. Especially considering the situation. As bad as everyone thinks Kubiak did yesterday, given the circumstances (on the road, great defense, awesome pass rush, brand new QB) the best he could have done was to coach a close game with the ball in our hands...... needing a field goal to win. & that's where we were.

There was a spark, we generated some turnovers... but we gave up two 80+ yard TD scoring drives to an offense with one good player. We gave up a 3rd & 21 from their 23 (no score on the drive because Reid gambled on 4th down instead of kicking an 18 yard field goal).

Offensively too many third downs we didn't convert to be able to say there was a spark. 3rd & long, how many of those do you think we converted? 3rd & short, we did fine. 3rd & long, not much better than before & that's not on the QB, I'm not blaming the QB at all.... I'm just saying if there was a spark, if this team was actually playing harder than they had in the past, they would have picked up 3rd & long more frequently than we did before.

None of our QBs give us a chance to win if the rest of the team plays the way they play.

But I think Gary has better tools to work with... with Keenum, so I want Keenum to start even though he fumbled the ball when he got sacked (he's going to get sacked again, I hope he doesn't fumble the ball again). Even though this team did not respond.

If I could be convinced that Schaub would throw the ball downfield, maybe I'd consider Schaub, but asking him to do that makes him self conscious about doing that, which makes him telegraph his throws, which leads to pick 6s...... which makes me wonder why he'd even consider it in the first place.

So yeah, I was wrong. Not about Case, he played great considering but that Kubiak would take a shot on 3rd & 3 from field goal range. I'll have to go back & see if Kubiak actually did call it, but Matt wussed out, it'll be hard to tell, since Matt has the leeway to seemlessly change it to a run play.
That's about as honest and straightforward a post as I've seen from you in a while. Rep.

Keenum definitely has some things to clean up, but we saw, along with Kubiak, Smith and Mcnair, the kind of QB play that has been missing for several years. Keenum brings things to the table that Schaub just physically can't and, nowadays, mentally can't.

I can't bein to understand what you're talking about in the bolded. Regardless, at least you weren't washing Schaub's weenie and admitted that Keenum did pretty OK yesterday.
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Old 10-21-2013   #205
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
As far as the title of the thread, there were people saying keenum would fail miserably and would be a step down from Schaub. Well, he wasn't either if those things.
People? Maybe there was a person saying that.... maybe that's what you heard.. maybe I've got blinders on & my Keenum hate is preventing me from seeing it.
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Old 10-21-2013   #206
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Unhappy Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

but kubes is starting schaub after the bye.






sigh..
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Old 10-21-2013   #207
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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but kubes is starting schaub after the bye.






sigh..
We aren't two Sundays from now, so don't despair. My money says Schaub will be much more injured by then. Whether it's a setback or Kubiak is "just being smart with it", Keenum will start against the Dolts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Schaub was called into Kubiak's office and privately given the news that Keenum will be starting. That protects Schaub's status as a sterter and Kubiak's as a "players coach" who doesn't let an injury take a starters job. That helps Schaub keep employment options open and Kubiak keep the locker room's faith. 2013 is Schaub's last with the Texans. Keep an eye on Craig's List for his house going up for sale.
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Old 10-21-2013   #208
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
We aren't two Sundays from now, so don't despair. My money says Schaub will be much more injured by then. Whether it's a setback or Kubiak is "just being smart with it", Keenum will start against the Dolts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Schaub was called into Kubiak's office and privately given the news that Keenum will be starting. That protects Schaub's status as a sterter and Kubiak's as a "players coach" who doesn't let an injury take a starters job. That helps Schaub keep employment options open and Kubiak keep the locker room's faith. 2013 is Schaub's last with the Texans. Keep an eye on Craig's List for his house going up for sale.
I heard on one of the morning shows that Schaub was saying he was healthy & ready to play... they went on to say Schaub was pretty much saying he's not going to "act" like he's hurt to make it easy on Kubiak. Basically forcing Kubiak to bench him, which Kubiak doesn't want to do.

Not out of respect for Matt. But I'm thinking Schaub knows it will hurt whatever chance he'll have for being allowed to compete for a starting job, much less be given one next season (I'm sure he was sitting on the sideline thinking, "I wouldn't pay me $12M next year if that kid was on my roster." ) if he's put on IR & no one sees him play a meaningful football game over the next 8 months.

He'll probably try to get Kubiak to release him outright so he can find another team this year, but there's no way our cap would allow us to do that.

Anyway.... If I had to guess, Gary & the think-tank is trying to formulate how they'll market this. Working out QBs tells me they're looking for someone to run the scout team, meaning Tj is the #2. They want to IR Schaub, but he doesn't want to go quietly.

& like I said, they can't cut him.
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Old 10-21-2013   #209
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

I don't understand the talk about Kubiak's willingness to take a shot on 3rd and 3 with Keenum, but not Schaub. Or maybe some people are just surprised that we are running our wide receivers deep? These are the same plays that we were running earlier in the year. The guy that makes the decision to throw that ball is the QB. Keenum should be getting the praise for that TD throw. That's one of the things I like about Keenum: his willingness and ability to make that kind of throw.
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Old 10-21-2013   #210
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I don't understand the talk about Kubiak's willingness to take a shot on 3rd and 3 with Keenum, but not Schaub. Or maybe some people are just surprised that we are running our wide receivers deep? These are the same plays that we were running earlier in the year. The guy that makes the decision to throw that ball is the QB. Keenum should be getting the praise for that TD throw. That's one of the things I like about Keenum: his willingness and ability to make that kind of throw.
I'm going to have to go back & look, I can't remember taking that shot on 3rd & 3. 1st & 10 from the 30, like Graham in Seattle... yeah.

& it may not be Kubiak, it may be me. In that situation, that down & distance, that part of the field, that time in the game... I'm expecting to try to pick up the first down.

Like you said, probably the same play.

I'm not giving Kubiak any praise for the call, just saying I think he's having fun again calling plays for someone who's going to execute them the way they were designed to be executed.
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Old 10-22-2013   #211
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I heard on one of the morning shows that Schaub was saying he was healthy & ready to play... they went on to say Schaub was pretty much saying he's not going to "act" like he's hurt to make it easy on Kubiak. Basically forcing Kubiak to bench him, which Kubiak doesn't want to do.

Not out of respect for Matt. But I'm thinking Schaub knows it will hurt whatever chance he'll have for being allowed to compete for a starting job, much less be given one next season (I'm sure he was sitting on the sideline thinking, "I wouldn't pay me $12M next year if that kid was on my roster." ) if he's put on IR & no one sees him play a meaningful football game over the next 8 months.

He'll probably try to get Kubiak to release him outright so he can find another team this year, but there's no way our cap would allow us to do that.

Anyway.... If I had to guess, Gary & the think-tank is trying to formulate how they'll market this. Working out QBs tells me they're looking for someone to run the scout team, meaning Tj is the #2. They want to IR Schaub, but he doesn't want to go quietly.

& like I said, they can't cut him.
Depending on what the coaches decide to do, Schaub could be cutting his own throat. It would be much better for him to agree that he was injured and could play better than to admit that he was healthy and played as bad as he did. No more game film from 2013 can only help Schaub. He killed any trade/contract value in the first 5 weeks of 2013. Schaub is in a no win situation if he tries to force any hand at all.
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Old 10-22-2013   #212
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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People? Maybe there was a person saying that.... maybe that's what you heard.. maybe I've got blinders on & my Keenum hate is preventing me from seeing it.
I read one post that directly said it. But let's not be coy...there were quite a few people indirectly saying keenum was not worth the trouble. Well, 1 game in, he's shown good promise.

It's hard to talk real football when people let their pride get in the way of honest evals.

I didn't like the Mercilus pick. I made that clear from the get go. But when the guy does good things I praise him. When he gets better at something I say he got better.

No one "knows" how these players will turn out so what sense does it make to get married to an eval that you did once upon a time?

Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. Sometimes you're right and a guy changes...it happens.
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Old 10-22-2013   #213
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Predicting whether or not Keenum would do well was complete conjecture. Truthfully, nobody should know either way.
That's about as irrelevant as it gets. Of course no one knows. Does that need to be said?

The point is, when you make strong statements about something and it doesn't go how you predicted, you look weak minded when you can't even acknowledge that for that one moment/game a guy played well without some crack about keenum fans.

This is part of a post you made last week:

Quote:
. You have people on the board expecting Keenum to be a "special" player (taken from this thread) when he has literally done nothing thus far in his NFL career. He has been sitting on the practice squad for how long now? How many years have teams passed up on him to be on their roster again? It is just silly. What I see is a beat down fan base struggling to comprehend what exactly is happening to their team and throwing their last bit of hope into an unproven, undrafted hometown kid. Meanwhile, they have made a determination about Yates that is almost equally as unfounded. It is just laughably silly all around, but I guess I'm just a realist.
You made several other post referencing him being on practice squad, being an udfa, making some good throws against back ups and people not in the nfl anymore.

Calling yourself a realist, and and anyone that thought case would play well desperate or delusional or whatever. And it's fine to still hold that opinion because it was only one game. But I guarantee you'd have been on here thumping your chest had keenum played poorly. Because while you didn't directly say it (maybe you did at some point) you more than alluded to it being highly likely.

You can't knock other people for their views beforehand and then when something positive goes their way and there's a tiny chance they could be right, come back and knock them again. That's weak.

Last edited by Rey; 10-22-2013 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 10-22-2013   #214
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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That's about as irrelevant as it gets. Of course no one knows. Does that need to be said?

The point is, when you make strong statements about something and it doesn't go how you predicted, you look weak minded when you can't even acknowledge that for that one moment/game a guy played well without some crack about keenum fans.

This is part of a post you made last week:



You made several other post referencing him being on practice squad, being a sixth round pick, making some good throws against back ups and people not in the nfl anymore.

Calling yourself a realist, and and anyone that thought case would play well desperate or delusional or whatever. And it's fine to still hold that opinion because it was only one game. But I guarantee you'd have been on here thumping your chest had keenum played poorly. Because while you didn't directly say it (maybe you did at some point) you more than alluded to it being highly likely.

You can't knock other people for their views beforehand and then when something positive goes there way and there's a tiny chance they could be right, come back and knock them again. That's weak.
It's not irrelevant because it shows you where my mindset is. I never predicted it to go either way. My statements were simply to say that Yates deserved a full game, so did Keenum but moreso Yates. I further stated that predicting great success was unfounded. So, I'm not sure how anything didn't go my way, or how I predicted.

The post above was directed at people who said they thought he would do great. The kid was undrafted. Predicting him to play great IS unfounded and is more indicative of a desperate group of fans. Hell, we are all desperate here, the team sucks. Sorry for saying something obvious. And I haven't knocked anyone for saying he played well. I gave my opinion that he played decent.

And Rey, don't tell me I would be on here pumping my chest if Keenum played poorly. I didn't even predict that, so what the hell are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm going to have to go back & look, I can't remember taking that shot on 3rd & 3. 1st & 10 from the 30, like Graham in Seattle... yeah.

& it may not be Kubiak, it may be me. In that situation, that down & distance, that part of the field, that time in the game... I'm expecting to try to pick up the first down.

Like you said, probably the same play.

I'm not giving Kubiak any praise for the call, just saying I think he's having fun again calling plays for someone who's going to execute them the way they were designed to be executed.
You'd hope that he is. I think part of Kubes deal is that he is trying to show some loyally, because vets respect it. However, in this situation, he just needs to move on.

If Keenum can improve over the course of the year, I think fans are going to come to the determination that this squad does have better targets than we thought on the roster. He's got the arm to take advantage of them.

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Old 10-22-2013   #215
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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You'd hope that he is. I think part of Kubes deal is that he is trying to show some loyally, because vets respect it. However, in this situation, he just needs to move on.
I think it's more than hope. Listening to the things he says about Keenum before & after the game I think it's clear he's having fun.

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
If Keenum can improve over the course of the year, I think fans are going to come to the determination that this squad does have better targets than we thought on the roster. He's got the arm to take advantage of them.
Agreed
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Old 10-22-2013   #216
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

Pressure situations will determine a QB's worth. Case played fine, nothing screamed superstar to me, especially not picking up jailbreak blitzes, and misplacing a few balls (Graham/Hopkins) balls that could have been scores or set up scores. I'm not going to crown him anything yet, he showed some promise no doubt.

Let's see what happens when more film becomes available to DC's and how quick he will be able to implement the full playbook. Pistol formations are not catching anybody off guard anymore.

Plenty of time to see whether or not he will pan out. Starting Schaub moving forward may cost Kubiak his job, and if so say goodbye to the Keenum project, the new coach will draft his QB in what is probably one of the deeper drafts for the position in a few years.
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Old 10-22-2013   #217
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

Just in case anyone wants a little perspective, go look at Brady's stats for his first few games after he took over for Bledsoe back in '01. I remember nothing saying superstar at the time, so I went back and looked, and yeah, doesn't look like it from the stat sheet either. Not saying Keenum will be Brady, duh. Just saying it's one game, either way.

5/10, 46 yds, 0, 0, 62.9 QBR - L, 3-10
13/23, 168 yds, 0, 0, 79.6 QBR, W 44-13, 1 sack
12/24, 86 yds, 0, 0, 58.7 QBR, L 10-30, 4 sacks, 2 fumbles lost

Now be true to yourself - if Keenum puts up those games as his first three, are you still clamoring for him to start?
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Old 10-22-2013   #218
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Just in case anyone wants a little perspective, go look at Brady's stats for his first few games after he took over for Bledsoe back in '01. I remember nothing saying superstar at the time, so I went back and looked, and yeah, doesn't look like it from the stat sheet either. Not saying Keenum will be Brady, duh. Just saying it's one game, either way.

5/10, 46 yds, 0, 0, 62.9 QBR - L, 3-10
13/23, 168 yds, 0, 0, 79.6 QBR, W 44-13, 1 sack
12/24, 86 yds, 0, 0, 58.7 QBR, L 10-30, 4 sacks, 2 fumbles lost

Now be true to yourself - if Keenum puts up those games as his first three, are you still clamoring for him to start?
the repeated opinion when coaches talk in hindsight about brady is mariucci's line "we looked at everything, but we didnt open up his chest". i doubt there's anyone on the planet that would question what's in case's chest. i know i'm coming off as "fan boy" at this point, and really couldnt care less. i'm not a college fan, and didnt have anything to say about case until this offseason when he gave me reason to take a deeper look. i truly cant find a knock on this kid. arm - check, touch - check, mobility in the pocket - check, mobility outside the pocket - check, accuracy - check, leading throws - check, YAC - check, a leader - check, a hard worker - check, intelligent - check, accurate on the run - check, quick reads - check.

the only thing that case doesnt have is experience. again, i'm aware i sound over the top blinded by the local kid, but that couldnt be further from the truth. he could be dan from wisconsin and i'd say the same things. i see an exceptional talent.

to your point about the numbers, it didnt matter then and it doesnt matter now - there's something special that is obvious to the eyes regardless of the spreadsheet.
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Old 10-22-2013   #219
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Pressure situations will determine a QB's worth. Case played fine, nothing screamed superstar to me, especially not picking up jailbreak blitzes, and misplacing a few balls (Graham/Hopkins) balls that could have been scores or set up scores. I'm not going to crown him anything yet, he showed some promise no doubt.
Yeah but, do you think he can throw a football over them mountains?
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Old 10-22-2013   #220
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
the repeated opinion when coaches talk in hindsight about brady is mariucci's line "we looked at everything, but we didnt open up his chest". i doubt there's anyone on the planet that would question what's in case's chest. i know i'm coming off as "fan boy" at this point, and really couldnt care less. i'm not a college fan, and didnt have anything to say about case until this offseason when he gave me reason to take a deeper look. i truly cant find a knock on this kid. arm - check, touch - check, mobility in the pocket - check, mobility outside the pocket - check, accuracy - check, leading throws - check, YAC - check, a leader - check, a hard worker - check, intelligent - check, accurate on the run - check, quick reads - check.

the only thing that case doesnt have is experience. again, i'm aware i sound over the top blinded by the local kid, but that couldnt be further from the truth. he could be dan from wisconsin and i'd say the same things. i see an exceptional talent.

to your point about the numbers, it didnt matter then and it doesnt matter now - there's something special that is obvious to the eyes regardless of the spreadsheet.
I love your enthusiasm and optimism, I really do. But a checklist like that needs more than a pre-season and one game to accurately assess. Hopefully by the end of this season we know where Case falls so we know we can either roll into next season with him or look into the draft (either way, I'd be looking in the draft, just as insurance).
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