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Old 10-21-2013   #181
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
So you disagree that the posters you're arguing with want the best for the Texans as a team?
Is that what I said in my post you quoted?

How can we even have a discussion if you aren't addressing anything I said?
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Old 10-21-2013   #182
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
The 'code' in the NFL is that a starter doesn't lose his job to injury. If Schaub is healthy, look for him to start against Indy.

I would think he would be on a short leash and they may have to put Keenum in so the offense can hear the plays over all the boos.
Someone tell Bill Belichick that he is a codebreaker.
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Old 10-21-2013   #183
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Is that what I said in my post you quoted?

How can we even have a discussion if you aren't addressing anything I said?
My original post had one point that I reiterated at the end: there's two sides of this argument, both sides want the best for the Texans. Wherever you stand on Case, don't take either side to the extreme.

You said you disagree. I haven't seen anyone "harp" on his negatives, I haven't seen anyone designate him as THE answer going forward. He had a *good* game. It wasn't enough to win, and that's what we're all about, right?
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Old 10-21-2013   #184
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
Cierre Wood has been cut, reportedly.
C. Wood is still listed on the roster at houstontexans.com as the #3 RB. And there's nothing to that effect - that he'd been cut - listed among the team transactions. Do you have a link?
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Old 10-21-2013   #185
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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C. Wood is still listed on the roster at houstontexans.com as the #3 RB. And there's nothing to that effect - that he'd been cut - listed among the team transactions. Do you have a link?
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Old 10-21-2013   #186
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Who exactly should he be compared to?

Were there any other qb's making their first start under similar conditions as case this weekend?

I don't know what you guys' are looking at or expect. Keenum played very well.
You should compare him to other starting QBs in the league to determine if he played well overall. In that regard, he played ok. 1 TD and 2 fumbles is not great, or even "good." Having said that, for a guy making his first start he showed some real positives. The guy can definitely throw the ball and seems to be able to keep plays alive with his legs. He deserves a real shot at being the future. He should be the starter for the rest of the year based on the KC game and what the Texans had at QB prior to it.

There's a difference between saying that a guy is probably our best at the position and saying he played or is great. There's also a difference between saying a guy played ok and rooting for him to fail. Huge difference. I want Keenum to succeed, but it takes more than "he played better than the last guy" for me to start overly praising someone. It also takes more than 25 regular season passes. That's just the way I am.

In regards to the weak minded comment, just look at the title of this thread for that. Throwing unfounded confidence in an undrafted player and starting a thread like this after one quarter is about as weak minded as it gets.
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Old 10-21-2013   #187
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You should compare him to other starting QBs in the league to determine if he played well overall.
Well then you're creating your own phantom counter argument.

No one has said that keenum can play like that forever and be considered a good starter.

What has consistently been said is that in those circumstances, with that being his first start he played well. It was a very good beginning for him.

If you are comparing him to other good starting qb's then your expectations were unrealistic. If he'd have played like a good starter having a good game against that defense that would have been unreal. And even then, it'd still have been just one game.
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Old 10-21-2013   #188
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Well then you're creating your own phantom counter argument.

No one has said that keenum can play like that forever and be considered a good starter.

What has consistently been said is that in those circumstances, with that being his first start he played well.

If you are comparing him to other good starting qb's then your expectations were unrealistic.
I didn't have any expectations other than I expected him to make some good throws, based on preseason. How he would handle managing a full regular season game was up in the air. He did a decent job at it, but made some small mistakes. I think he can improve on it. They are certainly coachable mistakes.
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Old 10-21-2013   #189
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

As far as the title of the thread, there were people saying keenum would fail miserably and would be a step down from Schaub. Well, he wasn't either if those things.

If you weren't one of the people saying that keenum would fall on his face and be miserable against the chiefs then the thread title shouldn't offend you.

Does any of this mean case will be a legit starter in this league? NO

But it's just my opinion that if the first thing you came here and said was some variation of "he wasn't all that", then you're likely one if the people that have a problem with the thread title, which means you likely predicted that case would not do well.
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Old 10-21-2013   #190
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

Predicting whether or not Keenum would do well was complete conjecture. Truthfully, nobody should know either way. People predicting him to fail are just as ridiculous as people predicting him to be great.

And who said anything about being offended by the thread title? It's more funny than anything, I simply pointed it out after the weak minded comment was brought up to describe people who didn't think Keenum played great. It was more of a "funny that you should post that in this thread" kind of comment.
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Old 10-21-2013   #191
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Throwing unfounded confidence in an undrafted player and starting a thread like this after one quarter is about as weak minded as it gets.
Putting your reputation on the line after just one quarter is not "weak minded".. that takes guts.. at least more guts than those who bashed every person who ever said anything remotely positive about Keenum have. I don't even know what the hell you were attempting to say above, because it doesn't make a lick of sense

Also

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Predicting whether or not Keenum would do well was complete conjecture. Truthfully, nobody should know either way. People predicting him to fail are just as ridiculous as people predicting him to be great.

And who said anything about being offended by the thread title? It's more funny than anything, I simply pointed it out after the weak minded comment was brought up to describe people who didn't think Keenum played great. It was more of a "funny that you should post that in this thread" kind of comment.
Saying he played great and predicting him to be great are two completely different things

Did I say he played great.. yes, I did, because given the circumstances he played under (no running back), he did (which even his own teammates said).. did I predict him to "BE GREAT".. I never did. Do I believe that he can be a answer in the future for this team, yep I do until he proves that wrong.. but that's far from saying "He'll be great". Once again, the haters got to hate and make crap up.

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You should compare him to other starting QBs in the league to determine if he played well overall.
Do us a favor.. pull up the first starts of other top NFL QBs in this league.. compare them and then get back with us, to extend that pull up the ones who had to make that start on the road. I'm pretty sure you aren't going to find too many that played better than case.. hence the "he played great" (not IS great, but played great) comment.
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Old 10-21-2013   #192
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS View Post
You're out of your mind or didn't watch the game if you think Keenum didn't play well given the circumstances. Once Tate got hurt we had zero threat of a running game which allowed the defense to pin it's ears back the rest of the way. The offensive line got it's tail whipped from that point on hence why we gave up 5 sacks in the 2nd half.
I think if you have to say "given the circumstances" that says it all. & 4 of those sacks were in the 4th qtr. From that point on, we can say Case looked better than Matt Barkley & that's really all that can be said.

I want Case to start the rest of the year. Not because I thought he Kaepernicked it, but because I like the way Kubiak called the game.

& I'm sorry If I don't give any creedence to you Schaub hater/Case fanbois..... Matt Schaub haters swing from Keenum's nutts... shocking...
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Old 10-21-2013   #193
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Lets not forget the potential TD to G. Graham that was dropped along with the pass to Hopkins in the endzone that he dropped and then we settled for 3. He made the plays on those the guy catching the ball just didnt do his part.
Can I go back & cherry pick the Seattle game with ifs?

Is it ok to play the if game now? I don't want someone jumping on me like I'm the only one playing the game.
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Old 10-21-2013   #194
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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meh....no pick 6s, so in my mind, that's a good enough improvement to stay on the job.
That's honest. I can get behind that. Not too fanboi... not too hater..... honest.
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Old 10-21-2013   #195
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Can I go back & cherry pick the Seattle game with ifs?

Is it ok to play the if game now? I don't want someone jumping on me like I'm the only one playing the game.
As long as you aren't going to throw a lame duck hand grenade to the flat.. please do
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Old 10-21-2013   #196
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
A much tougher test is when you have to keep up the pace with a great qb. They got indy coming up post bye and we will see more from case.
I can't wait.

No doubt in my mind Case will start, no doubt in my mind that he'll statistically play a better game than Andrew Luck... may not throw as many TDs, but ypa, completion percentage, total yards...... Keenum's numbers are going to be more like a starting QB's.
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Old 10-21-2013   #197
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
You should compare him to other starting QBs in the league to determine if he played well overall. In that regard, he played ok.
let's compare case then to the other qb's against the the chiefs. who was the best?

who had the least amount of experience?
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Old 10-21-2013   #198
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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By the way, another childish trait is "I told you so threads", especially after one game. Sure, none of us want to be wrong; so far, it looks like I was wrong on Case, but before ANYONE eats crow, we need to see more than 1 game (or one quarter, smh)
I wasn't wrong. Three things I said I wanted to see before I jumped on the "start Keenum" bandwagon.
  1. Don't do anything stupid
  2. Don't fumble on a sack
  3. Be that spark that gets this run game/defense to dominate

That's all I wanted. He did not do anything stupid. Good.

He fumbled when he was sacked. Not good. Especially considering the situation. As bad as everyone thinks Kubiak did yesterday, given the circumstances (on the road, great defense, awesome pass rush, brand new QB) the best he could have done was to coach a close game with the ball in our hands...... needing a field goal to win. & that's where we were.

There was a spark, we generated some turnovers... but we gave up two 80+ yard TD scoring drives to an offense with one good player. We gave up a 3rd & 21 from their 23 (no score on the drive because Reid gambled on 4th down instead of kicking an 18 yard field goal).

Offensively too many third downs we didn't convert to be able to say there was a spark. 3rd & long, how many of those do you think we converted? 3rd & short, we did fine. 3rd & long, not much better than before & that's not on the QB, I'm not blaming the QB at all.... I'm just saying if there was a spark, if this team was actually playing harder than they had in the past, they would have picked up 3rd & long more frequently than we did before.

None of our QBs give us a chance to win if the rest of the team plays the way they play.

But I think Gary has better tools to work with... with Keenum, so I want Keenum to start even though he fumbled the ball when he got sacked (he's going to get sacked again, I hope he doesn't fumble the ball again). Even though this team did not respond.

If I could be convinced that Schaub would throw the ball downfield, maybe I'd consider Schaub, but asking him to do that makes him self conscious about doing that, which makes him telegraph his throws, which leads to pick 6s...... which makes me wonder why he'd even consider it in the first place.

So yeah, I was wrong. Not about Case, he played great considering but that Kubiak would take a shot on 3rd & 3 from field goal range. I'll have to go back & see if Kubiak actually did call it, but Matt wussed out, it'll be hard to tell, since Matt has the leeway to seemlessly change it to a run play.
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Old 10-21-2013   #199
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I wasn't wrong. Three things I said I wanted to see before I jumped on the "start Keenum" bandwagon.
  1. Don't do anything stupid
  2. Don't fumble on a sack
  3. Be that spark that gets this run game/defense to dominate

That's all I wanted. He did not do anything stupid. Good.

He fumbled when he was sacked. Not good. Especially considering the situation. As bad as everyone thinks Kubiak did yesterday, given the circumstances (on the road, great defense, awesome pass rush, brand new QB) the best he could have done was to coach a close game with the ball in our hands...... needing a field goal to win. & that's where we were.

There was a spark, we generated some turnovers... but we gave up two 80+ yard TD scoring drives to an offense with one good player. We gave up a 3rd & 21 from their 23 (no score on the drive because Reid gambled on 4th down instead of kicking an 18 yard field goal).

Offensively too many third downs we didn't convert to be able to say there was a spark. 3rd & long, how many of those do you think we converted? 3rd & short, we did fine. 3rd & long, not much better than before & that's not on the QB, I'm not blaming the QB at all.... I'm just saying if there was a spark, if this team was actually playing harder than they had in the past, they would have picked up 3rd & long more frequently than we did before.

None of our QBs give us a chance to win if the rest of the team plays the way they play.

But I think Gary has better tools to work with... with Keenum, so I want Keenum to start even though he fumbled the ball when he got sacked (he's going to get sacked again, I hope he doesn't fumble the ball again). Even though this team did not respond.

If I could be convinced that Schaub would throw the ball downfield, maybe I'd consider Schaub, but asking him to do that makes him self conscious about doing that, which makes him telegraph his throws, which leads to pick 6s...... which makes me wonder why he'd even consider it in the first place.

So yeah, I was wrong. Not about Case, he played great considering but that Kubiak would take a shot on 3rd & 3 from field goal range. I'll have to go back & see if Kubiak actually did call it, but Matt wussed out, it'll be hard to tell, since Matt has the leeway to seemlessly change it to a run play.
That's about as honest and straightforward a post as I've seen from you in a while. Rep.

Keenum definitely has some things to clean up, but we saw, along with Kubiak, Smith and Mcnair, the kind of QB play that has been missing for several years. Keenum brings things to the table that Schaub just physically can't and, nowadays, mentally can't.

I can't bein to understand what you're talking about in the bolded. Regardless, at least you weren't washing Schaub's weenie and admitted that Keenum did pretty OK yesterday.

Last edited by infantrycak; 10-21-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 10-21-2013   #200
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
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Default Re: .. and it only took a quarter, so who's ready to eat crow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
As far as the title of the thread, there were people saying keenum would fail miserably and would be a step down from Schaub. Well, he wasn't either if those things.
People? Maybe there was a person saying that.... maybe that's what you heard.. maybe I've got blinders on & my Keenum hate is preventing me from seeing it.
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