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Old 10-18-2013   #41
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I hope for the best, but prepare for reality.
Yep.

Have Kubiak/Denneson done enough self-scouting to figure where they have been tipping their playcalling?
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Old 10-18-2013   #42
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

I'm afraid the reality is that he will wilt under the pressure, and I'm not so sure that if he were actually handed the keys to the offense and turned loose that would be the case (no pun intended). I think what Kubiak will do is restrict him to such a degree that it will insure failure. I don't think that Kubiak has any intention to do so, but it is like he just can't help himself. He has to always be in total control. Let's follow the script and don't deviate. I'm not sure if any Hall of fame QB you can name throughout history would be able to survive and make good under that kind of restriction. I don't expect to see Case being able to be Case at all. I think it will be Schaub 3.0, in which case Texans lose big.
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Old 10-18-2013   #43
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I keep hearing the word "spark" with Case. From the head coach on down, the burden of trying to breath some life into this team and maybe save a season rests on his young, inexperienced shoulders.

The kid is either going to rise to the occasion or wilt under pressure.
All he needs to do is not do anything stoopid. This team needs that spark more than anything, something to get them to play the way they were put together to play. We were built to win with Matt Schaub, dominant run game, dominant defense, clean efficient play from the QB.

If he turns into a player, a play-maker, that's icing.

But if they don't "spark" then it's the coach they laid down on, not the QB.
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Old 10-18-2013   #44
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
I hate to be the rain cloud that ruins the day but...........that aint happenin'.........so let's see what Keenum has. I just can't fathom why anyone would be against that with this season. It's not like the Texans are 6-0 and we're clamoring for this.
I am definitely against the "let's see what we've got" crowd. Whether we can win a Super Bowl or not is irrelevant. We're not mathematically out of the play off race, we're not even mathematically out of the division race. Now's not the time to be holding tryouts for the QB situation when you're probably going to be drafting a QB anyway.

The primary goal Sunday should be to walk out of Arrowhead with a victory.
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Old 10-18-2013   #45
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

I fall down laughing at all the college rah rah "my team" fans who are not currently enrolled. I get having a sports team to root for but to go bonkers, destroy property or want to fight another person is junior highesh to me. Last weekend, I was at a neighbor's whom I've known for 4 years to eat steak & watch football. Texas Tech vs Iowa State (1-3) one of the games we were to flip between. His bipolar brother shows up & before we are through first quarter he is pumping new coach as greatest & TT as a great team. I said "Look, I like the coach TT is good but let's see how they do rest of season". Well that went over like screen door on submarine. Game became secondary & brother Mike began getting louder & calling me crazy & talking out my a-s-s. I replied, "why are you getting angry? Listen, TT is not one of the top schools that coaches want to go to." He & my neighbor "top 10. top 10" I said not even top 30. Mike tries to get his fat butt off couch saying "you are fixing to get your ass kicked! You are talking about my school like you just called my daughter a slut!"

Wait..what? I poured my tea down sink , thought wistfully about ribeye on grill & left. Of course, I had to research & knock on Tom's door with Texas Tech currently rated # 41 in nation for coaches job. Game result Tech won 42-35 (hardly great).

Look, if you watched Keenum in college, he is a very good QB with some mechanical flaws like every college QB. He could be Brees or not. Why take a position until we see him play?
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Old 10-18-2013   #46
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Prior to the season, I stated that I thought we should go with Schaub because of his experience in the system and because he gives us the best chance of winning by NOT making mistakes. He was at his best last year when he was working entirely within the system and not trying to pus things, just taking what the defense was giving whether that was the long ball (Denver) or the short ball (1st Jacksonville game.)

But the last several games (going back to last season), Schaub has not been that guy. He's making uncharacteristic mistakes and they look unforced. Sometimes guys get into slumps and have to play their way out of it. I've been waiting for Schaub to wake up and it hasn't been happening. (Although that last game was more on the rest of the team for me.)

I know a lot of people are touchy about this but I don't think Kubiak made a mistake by sticking with a guy he's had some success with and a guy he trusts. I'm not anti-Kubiak like a lot of people here. I think he's a good coach with a good team.

But.

I'm excited about Keenum. I'm excited to see what he can do when bullets start flying for real. I'm hoping he's a gamer and I'm hoping the rest of the team is going to rally around his spark.

I was hoping that we'd be able to draft a good QB next draft and have a year or two to develop him. But if Schaub doesn't turn his head around, then we don't have the year or two I thought we did. If that's the case, I hope Case is The Guy. I hope Case becomes the next Warner/Brady, an unheralded UDFA/late rounder taking over for an incumbent QB knocked out of the line-up by injury and leading his team to the Super Bowl.

He's my QB and he's on my team so I'm going to be rooting for him.
I couldn't have said it any better!

If a player is struggling, you have to give him a chance to play out of it. If we immediately got rid of every player that struggled, then we'd be in constant search of perfect players that don't exist.

Now getting that out of the way... lets go Case!!!
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Old 10-18-2013   #47
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Spot on for me too. I never root against young guys.When posters start using college as a reason,that's part of my thing. I hope he plays well,but the elephant in the room is andrew luck. They have luck,we're starting a guy who wasn't drafted. Let that sink in.
Luck plays for the colts, what does that have to do with anything that was mentioned in this thread. The chiefs have smith, not luck.
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Old 10-18-2013   #48
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
Understood.

But, what is the realistic outcome of a scenario in starting Schaub or Yates over and over and over with these results?
Well, I think most of our problems relate to Kubiak's plays being available on video for anyone who wants to see them! Schaub is horrible at making something out of a play where the D knows whats coming, Yates isn't any better and has lockin syndrome on Andre; Keenum can't be any worse, I would think. But if Kubiak puts him in there with the denny's menu and expects different results, I think we'll be watching the same thing come Sunday.

This goes back to the end of last season, though, not just the beginning of this one. Teams know how we're coming out and the teams with an above average D are capable of stopping us easily.
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Old 10-18-2013   #49
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by robroy72 View Post
But if Kubiak puts him in there with the denny's menu and expects different results, I think we'll be watching the same thing come Sunday.
Now this I 100% agree with and is a huge concern for me too!
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Old 10-18-2013   #50
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Teams know how we're coming out and the teams with an above average D are capable of stopping us easily.
The Seahawks had a hard time stopping us. I know they didn't score at all in the 2nd half, but I think that was mainly the Texans killing themselves. Kubiak draws up some good plays, but it's dependent on the players executing.
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Old 10-18-2013   #51
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I fall down laughing at all the college rah rah "my team" fans who are not currently enrolled. I get having a sports team to root for but to go bonkers, destroy property or want to fight another person is junior highesh to me. Last weekend, I was at a neighbor's whom I've known for 4 years to eat steak & watch football. Texas Tech vs Iowa State (1-3) one of the games we were to flip between. His bipolar brother shows up & before we are through first quarter he is pumping new coach as greatest & TT as a great team. I said "Look, I like the coach TT is good but let's see how they do rest of season". Well that went over like screen door on submarine. Game became secondary & brother Mike began getting louder & calling me crazy & talking out my a-s-s. I replied, "why are you getting angry? Listen, TT is not one of the top schools that coaches want to go to." He & my neighbor "top 10. top 10" I said not even top 30. Mike tries to get his fat butt off couch saying "you are fixing to get your ass kicked! You are talking about my school like you just called my daughter a slut!"

Wait..what? I poured my tea down sink , thought wistfully about ribeye on grill & left. Of course, I had to research & knock on Tom's door with Texas Tech currently rated # 41 in nation for coaches job. Game result Tech won 42-35 (hardly great).

Look, if you watched Keenum in college, he is a very good QB with some mechanical flaws like every college QB. He could be Brees or not. Why take a position until we see him play?
Well... it was a Tech fan.

Only kidding, any red raiders we have on this board
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Old 10-18-2013   #52
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

Keenum's day is going to live or die behind how Kubiak runs the offense. If he tries to hide the quarterback then we will all be frustrated. I don't know why anyone would think we would open up the offense now. Kubiak is gonna run that same underneath route, two te plodding offense that won't challenge the back end. This is gonna be a runfest with a big serving of 23. Chiefs have struggled vs the run so this gives us our best chance to win so I think we will be pretty darn conservative. If we get behind it's gonna get rough.
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Old 10-18-2013   #53
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

Well, there are six Case Keenum threads already on the front page of the main forum and he was just announced as the starter. He hasn't even played yet.

It's just a lot of hype for an undrafted player. I honestly don't see any hate for Keenum or any anti-Keenum at all, but there sure is a ton of Keenum lovers. Most of them are ripping Yates after he was put in a terrible lose-lose situation.

Desperation slaps critical thinking ability around quickly it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNTLEWOLF View Post
I'm afraid the reality is that he will wilt under the pressure, and I'm not so sure that if he were actually handed the keys to the offense and turned loose that would be the case (no pun intended). I think what Kubiak will do is restrict him to such a degree that it will insure failure. I don't think that Kubiak has any intention to do so, but it is like he just can't help himself. He has to always be in total control. Let's follow the script and don't deviate. I'm not sure if any Hall of fame QB you can name throughout history would be able to survive and make good under that kind of restriction. I don't expect to see Case being able to be Case at all. I think it will be Schaub 3.0, in which case Texans lose big.
It's stuff like this that makes people verbally pump the breaks on the "Keenum is special" crowd.
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Old 10-18-2013   #54
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I hope for the best, but prepare for reality.

At 2-4 this team is desperate. Most fans entered this season taking a playoff spot for granted, that this team would secure the division again, and just needed to focus on winning "big games".

Obviously, that is no longer an expectation for most fans, and the reality is that the season is starting to circle the drain just 6 games into it. And it's not just the record, but the way the team is playing as a whole and how they are losing games as a team.

I keep hearing the word "spark" with Case. From the head coach on down, the burden of trying to breath some life into this team and maybe save a season rests on his young, inexperienced shoulders.

The kid is either going to rise to the occasion or wilt under pressure. Most of us hope for the former, but just be prepared for the latter. NFL history is full of examples of players being put in situations over their heads and sinking. All we can do is hope that we have that 1 in a 100 player that has some kind of destiny to be great. But we won't know until it happens.
For me I agree he is NFL inexperienced but has experience in being underdog, and too short. He has experience in proving to coaches, teammates, opponents and fans he can win. He can pass, manage a game, motivate and win. He has no NFL experience because he has not played in a game; just like any other QB that has not played a game. Be optimistic or pessimistic as either can be supported until about 6:30 Sunday, then we might know a bit more. Sure everything has been pretty good but he is going against Chief's D. He is going against them with the Texans' first string offense and the 1st string defense. He has not done that before either.
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Old 10-18-2013   #55
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Desperation slaps critical thinking ability around quickly it seems.



It's stuff like this that makes people verbally pump the breaks on the "Keenum is special" crowd.
If Case was from the University of Hawaii there wouldn't be this reaction...gotta include the home town kid factor.
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Old 10-18-2013   #56
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
If Case was from the University of Hawaii there wouldn't be this reaction...gotta include the home town kid factor.
I made the same point in the ... one of the Keenum threads anyway. Except I used Akron.
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Old 10-18-2013   #57
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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I am definitely against the "let's see what we've got" crowd. Whether we can win a Super Bowl or not is irrelevant. We're not mathematically out of the play off race, we're not even mathematically out of the division race. Now's not the time to be holding tryouts for the QB situation when you're probably going to be drafting a QB anyway.

The primary goal Sunday should be to walk out of Arrowhead with a victory.
Which walking out with a victory is of course the goal but what QB actually gives you confidence? I thought you had jumped off the Schaub train? Are you on the Yates train or just anyone but Keenum train? (Not attacking you, just confused)

So, in a SB or bust year, with the talent on this team, just getting to the playoffs is good enough? And if so, we're expecting to win with Schaub or Yates?

This seems like the acceptance of mediocrity mindset to me. Especially if you think we're going to draft a QB next year as you said. So why wouldn't we see what Keenum has again before we draft someone?

I'm confused.
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Old 10-18-2013   #58
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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If Case was from the University of Hawaii there wouldn't be this reaction...gotta include the home town kid factor.
Exactly. We'd still be wanting him to start just to check him out, but there wouldn't be this much buzz. At work yesterday it was pretty much all the "water cooler" talk with the UH alumni going nuts.

And I'm guilty of it as well. Not that I have a problem with it. It's the first genuinely positive thing to happen around these parts in a while.
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Old 10-18-2013   #59
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
So, in a SB or bust year, with the talent on this team, just getting to the playoffs is good enough? And if so, we're expecting to win with Schaub or Yates?

This seems like the acceptance of mediocrity mindset to me. Especially if you think we're going to draft a QB next year as you said. So why wouldn't we see what Keenum has again before we draft someone?

I'm confused.
I'm confused too, but I honestly can't tell if TK just takes the opposing side of things for the hell of it anymore, so I just overlook it.

"Find out what we got," is the only crowd out there. That's the only situation that is possible. Schaub is injured and cannot play. Yates and, moreso, Keenum have yet to show us who they are. So, not sure what crowd he's in.
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Old 10-18-2013   #60
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Default Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
These have typed what I have been posting/thinking.

That said, I am not going stop wishing the best for "hope and change" keenum if he has a bad game against the hottest pass rush in the league. One good or bad game does not make a career. Remember Matt Flynn once dropped 6TDs in a real NFL game, and could not keep a QB job after two teams gave him real $$$$.
There is no Aaron Rodgers to take his spot back so if Keenum took a giant **** on the Chiefs defense he'd pretty much have to be a starter after that or Kubiak would probably end up with his head on a stick somewhere in 5th ward.
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