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Old 06-17-2013   #141
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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It may be crystal ball but two more seasons behind Matt should really season him.
If he's not going to be ready for the next two years, he's not the guy.

Now if he's ready this year, just waiting for an opportunity... I can buy that.

There will most likely be an opportunity in 2013 for someone to step up & replace Matt.
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Old 06-17-2013   #142
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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If he's not going to be ready for the next two years, he's not the guy.

Now if he's ready this year, just waiting for an opportunity... I can buy that.

There will most likely be an opportunity in 2013 for someone to step up & replace Matt.
TK, I enjoy reading your posts but what are you talking about? Keenum has one year on practice squad. Don't you agree most QBs need 1-2 years of significant playing time before starting? Two more seasons behind Matt should be perfect.

Edit: no one will have opportunity to replace Schaub barring injury.
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Old 06-17-2013   #143
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Im still a big time Yates fan. He is underrated around these parts IMO.

he isnt underrated at all lets not go overboard here
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Old 06-17-2013   #144
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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TK, I enjoy reading your posts but what are you talking about? Keenum has one year on practice squad. Don't you agree most QBs need 1-2 years of significant playing time before starting? Two more seasons behind Matt should be perfect.
Not sure how you consider being behind Schaub to be significant playing time. But to answer your question waiting 2-3 years on a QB is a rarity now.
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Old 06-17-2013   #145
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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But to answer your question waiting 2-3 years on a QB is a rarity now.
And the game has suffered for it, IMO.
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Old 06-17-2013   #146
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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And the game has suffered for it, IMO.
When were these halcyon days of QB's sitting around for years? I don't recall Bradshaw, Elway, Montana, Manning, Marino, Kelly sitting around for years watching.

I'll spot you Staubach but that was a rather unique situation all around.
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Old 06-17-2013   #147
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

LOL...Cak, you are the one that said it's a rarity now....

Saying it's a rarity now indicates that you didn't think it used to be.
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Old 06-17-2013   #148
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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TK, I enjoy reading your posts but what are you talking about? Keenum has one year on practice squad. Don't you agree most QBs need 1-2 years of significant playing time before starting? Two more seasons behind Matt should be perfect.

Edit: no one will have opportunity to replace Schaub barring injury.
1-2 years... yeah. 3 years..... no.

Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench for 3 years & I'm sure he's better for it. But I think he was probably ready at the end of year 1, just didn't have an opportunity.

If Keenum isn't ready at the end of this season, I don't think he will be. That's all I'm saying. If he doesn't get on the field before the 2015 season because Matt's the starter & continues to be healthy through the end of the 2014 season, so be it. That's a different story.

Matt played 18 games last season (not counting preseason), the chances of him doing that in 2013... slim. Someone is going to get on that field in his place, if it's Yates, he's been here long enough, we should be able to tell if he's ready to start in the NFL or not.

If Keenum Leap frogs Yates & he gets that opportunity... that's Kubiak saying Keenum is ready. If he falls on his face, he falls on his face.

Time to move on.
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Old 06-17-2013   #149
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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1-2 years... yeah. 3 years..... no.

Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench for 3 years & I'm sure he's better for it. But I think he was probably ready at the end of year 1, just didn't have an opportunity.

If Keenum isn't ready at the end of this season, I don't think he will be. That's all I'm saying. If he doesn't get on the field before the 2015 season because Matt's the starter & continues to be healthy through the end of the 2014 season, so be it. That's a different story.

Matt played 18 games last season (not counting preseason), the chances of him doing that in 2013... slim. Someone is going to get on that field in his place, if it's Yates, he's been here long enough, we should be able to tell if he's ready to start in the NFL or not.

If Keenum Leap frogs Yates & he gets that opportunity... that's Kubiak saying Keenum is ready. If he falls on his face, he falls on his face.

Time to move on.
I'll go on record as saying that Keenum will be the starter by 2015 if Schaub doesn't take us to the Super Bowl by then.

If this were another team, I could see Yates getting traded by then but the Texans don't believe in that. They'd rather cut players and eat dead money or just let a player walk.
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Old 06-17-2013   #150
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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LOL...Cak, you are the one that said it's a rarity now....

Saying it's a rarity now indicates that you didn't think it used to be.
QFT, but I'll play anyway.

First rounders have never sat. Oh, I'm sure someone will come up with an example, so whatever, but the trend has not been for first rounders to sit and develop. But teams used to have guys sitting that they'd develop behind the starter. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't, but there used to be a higher percentage of QBs drafted in later rounds that sat and developed for a couple years. They'd get some mop-up time or maybe start a few games if the starter went down, and then later in their career, they'd turn into decent starters, sometimes very good. Even the guys that started early often saw limited spot duty in their rookie year.

Circumstances vary, but I can think of Steve Young, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Stan Humphries, Elvis Grbac, and Lynn Dickey. I'm sure if I looked far enough into it, I could come up with some more. A few of these guys were drafted really late, but some were drafted in the 3rd-ish rounds. Coaches worked with them in the hopes that they'd develop and some of them did. Now teams spend a ton on their starter and don't bother too much to develop a later round guy. It happens, but it's not as common as it used to be.

Maybe it wasn't exactly common back then, but as the game has increasingly put skirts on the QBs and the paychecks have risen at the position, teams put a much lower emphasis on ensuring there's a real viable option at backup. The Colts are the extreme example - hell, they had exactly no one behind Peyton Manning for years.
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Old 06-17-2013   #151
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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QFT, but I'll play anyway.

First rounders have never sat. Oh, I'm sure someone will come up with an example, so whatever, but the trend has not been for first rounders to sit and develop. But teams used to have guys sitting that they'd develop behind the starter. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't, but there used to be a higher percentage of QBs drafted in later rounds that sat and developed for a couple years. They'd get some mop-up time or maybe start a few games if the starter went down, and then later in their career, they'd turn into decent starters, sometimes very good. Even the guys that started early often saw limited spot duty in their rookie year.

Circumstances vary, but I can think of Steve Young, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Stan Humphries, Elvis Grbac, and Lynn Dickey. I'm sure if I looked far enough into it, I could come up with some more. A few of these guys were drafted really late, but some were drafted in the 3rd-ish rounds. Coaches worked with them in the hopes that they'd develop and some of them did. Now teams spend a ton on their starter and don't bother too much to develop a later round guy. It happens, but it's not as common as it used to be.

Maybe it wasn't exactly common back then, but as the game has increasingly put skirts on the QBs and the paychecks have risen at the position, teams put a much lower emphasis on ensuring there's a real viable option at backup. The Colts are the extreme example - hell, they had exactly no one behind Peyton Manning for years.
Steve Young was drafted in the 1st round by Tampa Bay. Aaron Rodgers was drafted in the 1st round. Warren Moon wasn't drafted at all. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Case Keenum wasn't drafted (I keed, I keed!!!). Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round.

There doesn't seem to be a tried and true method of drafting a QB. For every Peyton Manning out there, there are 3 Leif Garret's or Jamarcus Russell's. Some QB's learn under fire better than others, some need the time to sit and learn how to be a pro. Our very own David Carr could well be a prime example of that. Who knows what could've come of his career if he'd been allowed to watch a seasoned vet go out and get slobberknockered behind a horrible OL for a couple of years?

IMHO, I'd rather see a draft pick, regardless of draft position sit for at least a year and learn how to prepare like a pro. Just MHO.
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Old 06-17-2013   #152
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

Just to continue this exercise in futility.

Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Matt Schaub
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton
Andrew Luck
Christian Ponder
Robert Griffen III

Where were these guys drafted & when did they start (year 1, 2, 3, or 4)
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Old 06-17-2013   #153
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Just to continue this exercise in futility.

Joe Flacco
Colin Kaepernick
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Matt Schaub
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton
Russell Wilson
Andrew Luck
Jake Locker

Where were these guys drafted & when did they start (year 1, 2, 3, or 4)
Kind of a silly way to play the game. The vast majority are young and drafted in the top 3 rounds of their drafts. Right where eventual starters are expected to be drafted.

The biggest surprise in those names is Wilson. Nobody expected Wilson to be the starter in Seattle last season.
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Old 06-17-2013   #154
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Matt Leinhert was a beast at handoffs in that one half he played.


STOP IT!! Just STOP IT!!!!

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While funny I've heard that Keenum has been killing it!
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Old 06-17-2013   #155
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Kind of a silly way to play the game.
Those are the 2012 Play off QBs, that's the only reason I picked them. I think Rogers is the only one who sat for more than 2 years. But I wasn't sure, which is another reason I posed the question.
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Old 06-17-2013   #156
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Those are the 2012 Play off QBs, that's the only reason I picked them. I think Rogers is the only one who sat for more than 2 years. But I wasn't sure, which is another reason I posed the question.
3 out of the bunch were rookies. How does that play out? Has to be fairly high, depending on games started as a rookie.
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Old 06-17-2013   #157
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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3 out of the bunch were rookies. How does that play out? Has to be fairly high, depending on games started as a rookie.
You're right...... somehow I missed RG3

I also screwed up & had Locker in there instead of Ponder & I counted Russell Wilson twice.
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Old 06-17-2013   #158
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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You're right...... somehow I missed RG3
LOL
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Old 10-18-2013   #159
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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well, yeah, there really is not much to talk about, so I kinda give this a pass. the only thing i find funny is the people using some form of replacemnt or future starter when talking about either of them.
Well....here we are....
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Old 10-18-2013   #160
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Well....here we are....
Yes, for better or worse, here we are.
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