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View Poll Results: Who do you want to start at QB this week?
Schaub 10 9.26%
Yates 6 5.56%
Keenum 86 79.63%
Other 6 5.56%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2013   #101
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
It's not only a Texans problem, but it is something Schaub struggles with. Our O-line isn't exactly giving our QBs the best protection. In order to complete a long pass, the O-line either needs to give the QB more time, or the QB needs to create that time on his own by scrambling and moving in the pocket. Matt Schaub can't do that, and our O-line can't protect him, so that's why we struggle with 3rd and long situations.


that I can agree with
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Old 10-17-2013   #102
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Yep, team speed appears to be non-important trait for Smith & Kubiak in player acquisition.
I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, but that's gone into the crapper.. when your receivers have to jump in the air, reach down at passes thrown at their feet, or contort for passes thrown behind them there's little opportunities for YAC yards. I mean how many times do we actually see WRs get led or thrown open in this offense.
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Old 10-17-2013   #103
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

Cha...I'm.....I'm....gonna stick...with ....Bill on this one.
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Old 10-17-2013   #104
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
It's not only a Texans problem, but it is something Schaub struggles with. Our O-line isn't exactly giving our QBs the best protection. In order to complete a long pass, the O-line either needs to give the QB more time, or the QB needs to create that time on his own by scrambling and moving in the pocket. Matt Schaub can't do that, and our O-line can't protect him, so that's why we struggle with 3rd and long situations.
Unless you're ben Rothlisberger..a guy notorious for running around behind the LOS waiting for someone to uncover, or 1 of the elite guys, no qb can survive and play a great game that way...consistently anyway. Your o-line has to be pretty competent for them to play half way decent. You're either going to get hurt or you're going to be throwing bad balls trying to move around too much b/c your line can't block anybody. The only reason Rothlisberger gets away with it so consistently is b/c he's like 6'4 & 250 and for the most part can take the punishment he recieves by doing it...not the case with Keenum.

Keenum projects to be better at moving around in short space, but it doesn't mean that he'll be any better getting the ball downfield b/c no qb likes being moved off their spot..Furthermore, As a qb working under center, you see how quick those DE's get off the snap out of the corner of your eye....If you're routinely getting hit, b/c your RT is getting blown by, it makes it just that much harder to keep your focus downfield where it should be... It speeds up your clock...& as a qb you tend to want to check it down in an effort to avoid negative plays...Kubiak knows this....it's just part of the long list things that factor into why we're not throwing it downfield much these days..

The o-line struggles are going to be a huge factor for whomever is under center...& whomever that is apart from Schaub, you can't expect them to continue to make plays under those circumstances
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Old 10-17-2013   #105
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
3rd and 11 is pretty specific. So if it is 3rd and 5 3rd and 7 and you throw 2-3 yards short you would typically pick up yac. Throwing short of the sticks is not a Texans only practice but keep up with it
I never said it was a Texans only practice, but this year they SUCK at picking up YAC. A point exacerbated by our top 2 receivers averaging 2.

Texans TEAM YAC = 3.29
Texans Opponent YAC = 5.40

Chiefs TEAM YAC = 5.06
Chiefs Opponent YAC = 4.64

Hell, maybe we up the average this game, but let's not act like the Texans (17th in 3rd down conv.) are doing "above average". As you say, keep up with it.
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Old 10-17-2013   #106
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I never said it was a Texans only practice, but this year they SUCK at picking up YAC. A point exacerbated by our top 2 receivers averaging 2.

Texans TEAM YAC = 3.29
Texans Opponent YAC = 5.40

Chiefs TEAM YAC = 5.06
Chiefs Opponent YAC = 4.64

Hell, maybe we up the average this game, but let's not act like the Texans (17th in 3rd down conv.) are doing "above average". As you say, keep up with it.

where did I say the texans were doing way above average?
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Old 10-17-2013   #107
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
I knew this was going to come up. Warren Moon is actually a perfect example, and Doug Williams proves my point. Both QBs entered the 1978 draft with high hopes. Doug Williams was drafted in Rd #1, Moon was not drafted at all. By 1978 the black QBs inability to play had already been laid to rest, and it's Moon who perpetuates the myth that there was something about the color of his skin that didn't get him drafted. What Doug Williams did for black QBs cannot be denied, but the door was already wide open for the black QB in the NFL. It just makes a better story to state otherwise.

Geez, Marlin Briscoe in the late 60s early 70s, James Harris in the early 1970s, Vince Evans was drafted a year before Williams, and my God, Joe Gilliam! That's just off the top of my head.

In fact, the scout's knock on Moon was the same as the knock on Keenum: neither QB played in a pro-style drop back and pass offense.
If knew it would come up,then maybe you should've done a better job of getting your facts together. Warren Moon played in a pro style offense and played well in college. Doug williams came out of a swac school. The examples you gave are poor because between joe g with the steelers and warren moon,there were countless black qbs who were told to play another position. Hell,charlie ward wasn't even drafted because teams thought he might play basketball and wasn't sure if it was the offense at fsu.Nevermind the guy had a cannon,was a natural leader,and was very,very, mobile. So when you say warren and doug compare to case,I think your wrong and getting wronger. As soon as warren got thru dominating the cfl,he was the highest paid qb in the nfl.case on the other have had 2 guys recently get drafted playing in the exact same system. Rg3 and kolb both were drafted high playing in that same system. Just like white and heupal played in the same system as bradford but wasn't drafted. Scouts can look past the system and look at talent.
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Old 10-17-2013   #108
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, but that's gone into the crapper.. when your receivers have to jump in the air, reach down at passes thrown at their feet, or contort for passes thrown behind them there's little opportunities for YAC yards. I mean how many times do we actually see WRs get led or thrown open in this offense.
Schaub has never been that accurate. How many times have we seen schaub leave points on the field because he didn't lead the wrs? How many times have andre had to pluck a ball off the shoelaces. I think one of the reasons they drafted hopkins is because he can catch bad passes. I never thought of him as a 1 ish wr because he's not that explosive.He's the kind of wr you have to throw open or put it in his area and he will get it no matter how poorly its thrown. On the other hand,dbs don't worry about him running by them. Actually the same can be said for just about every wr and te on the texans.
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Old 10-17-2013   #109
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, in his dreams, but as it turns out QB's must be awake in order to participate in an NFL game, and Matt couldn't hit his ass with both hands, if he were given three tries and a Google map
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Old 10-17-2013   #110
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
where did I say the texans were doing way above average?
You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link Link

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.
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Old 10-17-2013   #111
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link Link

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.
So what? You are just a fan and NFL coaches know more than you.
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Old 10-17-2013   #112
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

I wonder if Kubiak saw this poll when he made his decision?
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Old 10-17-2013   #113
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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I wonder if Kubiak saw this poll when he made his decision?
Of course I errr he did.
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Old 10-17-2013   #114
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link Link

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.


I said that throwing short of the sticks is common and not just for the Texans which is a fact. You threw out a 3rd and 11, the conversion % for the nfl is rather low for those 3rd and long distances also fact. The texans at midde of the pack on 3rd down conversions


Now I was expecting you to show me where I said the texans were above average as you claimed, you couldnt do that. I wonder why?
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Old 10-17-2013   #115
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?




Really and truly hope to be eating some crow on Sunday.

They're reporting it on ESPN too.
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Old 10-17-2013   #116
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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Really and truly hope to be eating some crow on Sunday.
I really hate this cop-out. If you are right you get to complain and say "See, I told you so", but if you are wrong you just shrug your shoulders and celebrate the victory.

After weeks of banging the Anybody but Schaub drum, I finally tell myself that Schaub would be better to play @ KC rather than an inexperienced 2nd year pro and they go with the inexperienced 2nd year pro...

I guess starting him off at home and not against a top defense would be too much to ask...
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Old 10-17-2013   #117
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

I bet the effort level shoots up vs Kansas City. We're going to get fumbles, we're going to get INTs, we're going to pick up 3rd & 1s, Arian is going to catch more of those little dump offs & turn it up field.

If there's any doubt that this team quit on Kubiak/Schaub... it'll be pretty clear on Sunday.
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Old 10-17-2013   #118
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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I bet the effort level shoots up vs Kansas City. We're going to get fumbles, we're going to get INTs, we're going to pick up 3rd & 1s, Arian is going to catch more of those little dump offs & turn it up field.

If there's any doubt that this team quit on Kubiak/Schaub... it'll be pretty clear on Sunday.
Very good points. I could not agree more.

I have not been this excited for a Texans game all year.
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Old 10-17-2013   #119
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

I bet AJ scores.
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Old 10-17-2013   #120
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Default Re: Who do you want to start at QB this week?

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i want to believe.
There's a thread for you!

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=102399

Check in and make it known?






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