Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft The future stars of the NFL

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2013   #721
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Mark my words, Manziel will get a shot in the NFL, it's almost a guarantee at this point. Anybody who claims to know how well he will do in the NFL is being disingenuous as hell (mrtex), and you can probably ignore that poster until it's draft time.

That kid is a baller though.
It's just my opinion obviously.....but i've seen it too many times to be convinced that he'll be any different from the guys before him. Any time as a qb your 1st instinct is to run...not really comfortable sitting in the pocket.... most of the plays you make when its crunch time are of you running....

add to that, the whole system qb thing, the bad mechanics at times


Those things don't project to make a good NFL qb....
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #722
b0ng
Ooops
 
b0ng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 33
Posts: 7,717
Rep Power: 73160 b0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respectedb0ng is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's just my opinion obviously.....but i've seen it too many times to be convinced that he'll be any different from the guys before him. Any time as a qb your 1st instinct is to run...not really comfortable sitting in the pocket.... most of the plays you make when its crunch time are of you running....

add to that, the whole system qb thing, the bad mechanics at times


Those things don't project to make a good NFL qb....
Exhibit like 57234502812 to go with my previous post.
__________________
\_(ツ)_/
http://www.thedrawplay.com/?p=88
b0ng is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #723
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Exhibit like 57234502812 to go with my previous post.
You wanna see my evidence? Just look at every running qb to come out of college the last umpteen years...Hell, it's probablyy easier to name the few who have had limited success in the NFL that were runners coming out of college.

Unlike you and a few others, i'm not afraid of being wrong...don't think i am on this one though.
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #724
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
 
htownfan32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 3,912
Rep Power: 112833 htownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's just my opinion obviously.....but i've seen it too many times to be convinced that he'll be any different from the guys before him. Any time as a qb your 1st instinct is to run...not really comfortable sitting in the pocket.... most of the plays you make when its crunch time are of you running....

add to that, the whole system qb thing, the bad mechanics at times


Those things don't project to make a good NFL qb....
Manziel's game tying drive from the Ole Miss game.

Drive resulting in a TD, starting at the Texas A&M 25

1st and 10 at TA&M 25
Manziel throws completion, a short 3 yard pass to Mike Evans, who is unable to break a tackle.

2nd and 7 at TA&M 28
Manziel throws completion, 24 yards to Malcolme Kennedy on a long crossing pattern, tackled at the Ole Miss 48.

1st and 10 at OM 48
Manziel incomplete on a PA pass to Sabian Holmes

2nd and 10 at OM 48
Ben Malena rush 5 yards to OM 43

3rd and 5 at OM 43
Trey Williams rush -2 yards to OM 45

4th and 7 at OM 45
Manziel rush 13 yards to OM 32

On this play Manziel hung in the back for quite a while, and went through his reads before taking off. Everyone was covered. Ole Miss rushed three, kept a spy on Manziel, and had everyone else covered. There was a short checkdown available but it would have resulted in a turnover and Manziel did not throw to it. He did not look once and tuck. There were a solid 6-7 seconds of him just standing around waiting for someone to get open. This was the play the Ole Miss player, Serderius Bryant, was injured.

1st and 10 at OM 32

Manziel throws complete on a short crossing route by Mike Evans for 26 yards. This is the play Mike Evans hurdled over a Ole Miss player.The pass itself was only 4-5 yards, the rest was YAC. Had the first tackle been made, the pass would have been about 12-16 yards, but Evans added the other 10 out of his own sheer effort.

1st and Goal at OM 6

Manziel rushes 6 yards for a touchdown. On this play it was a designed rollout to the right but Manziel sees the defense overloading and cuts it back to the left for a TD, diving for the pylon.

Your criticisms are all a year old. This year Manziel has happily sat in the pocket and picked apart defenses with his arm. Only in the Ole Miss game did he resort to his legs similar to last year, and I blame that on the offensive game plan. Ole Miss was playing the pass, and Malena/Williams/Carson were ripping off good gains on the ground. A&M has a solid stable of RBs and the OC should have pounded the rock to keep the defense honest before unleashing the air raid. Instead the offense went with an empty backfield too many times.
htownfan32 is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #725
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Manziel's game tying drive from the Ole Miss game.

Drive resulting in a TD, starting at the Texas A&M 25

1st and 10 at TA&M 25
Manziel throws completion, a short 3 yard pass to Mike Evans, who is unable to break a tackle.

2nd and 7 at TA&M 28
Manziel throws completion, 24 yards to Malcolme Kennedy on a long crossing pattern, tackled at the Ole Miss 48.

1st and 10 at OM 48
Manziel incomplete on a PA pass to Sabian Holmes

2nd and 10 at OM 48
Ben Malena rush 5 yards to OM 43

3rd and 5 at OM 43
Trey Williams rush -2 yards to OM 45

4th and 7 at OM 45
Manziel rush 13 yards to OM 32

On this play Manziel hung in the back for quite a while, and went through his reads before taking off. Everyone was covered. Ole Miss rushed three, kept a spy on Manziel, and had everyone else covered. There was a short checkdown available but it would have resulted in a turnover and Manziel did not throw to it. He did not look once and tuck. There were a solid 6-7 seconds of him just standing around waiting for someone to get open. This was the play the Ole Miss player, Serderius Bryant, was injured.

1st and 10 at OM 32

Manziel throws complete on a short crossing route by Mike Evans for 26 yards. This is the play Mike Evans hurdled over a Ole Miss player.The pass itself was only 4-5 yards, the rest was YAC. Had the first tackle been made, the pass would have been about 12-16 yards, but Evans added the other 10 out of his own sheer effort.

1st and Goal at OM 6

Manziel rushes 6 yards for a touchdown. On this play it was a designed rollout to the right but Manziel sees the defense overloading and cuts it back to the left for a TD, diving for the pylon.

Your criticisms are all a year old. This year Manziel has happily sat in the pocket and picked apart defenses with his arm. Only in the Ole Miss game did he resort to his legs similar to last year, and I blame that on the offensive game plan. Ole Miss was playing the pass, and Malena/Williams/Carson were ripping off good gains on the ground. A&M has a solid stable of RBs and the OC should have pounded the rock to keep the defense honest before unleashing the air raid. Instead the offense went with an empty backfield too many times.
No...they arent....he still has this tendency....he has an over-reliance on his athleticism.....plays that have to be made 7-10 yards, it's highly likely he's taking off and running to convert them. That's cool in college..you can get away with it when you're one of the best athletes on the field...Look at that drive above...4th and 7 when they had to have a conversion....he took off.

"hung in the back" is not the same as standing tall in the pocket.....i remember that play well..he was waaayy in the back and any time anyone remotely made a step to him he was setting up to bail....watching the rush a little too much. Any time anyone gets close to him he's pretty much bailing out of the pocket. The mere fact you had to throw that whole explanation in there illustrates my point. If he proliferates that tendency in the
NFL teams will conspire to keep him in the pocket and make him beat them throwing....maybe he can learn to...who knows...his mindset has to change though.

He's got VY syndrome..."oh....well i can get that running...not worried about these guys being able to catch me..." Well, there's alot of guys up there who can catch you...

Jeff Garcia is his ceiling...tops......and that's if he gets into the right system, with the right coach and he learns to think pass 1st instead of run.....hey thats good right?
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #726
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
 
htownfan32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 3,912
Rep Power: 112833 htownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
No...they arent....he still has this tendency....he has an over-reliance on his athleticism.....plays that have to be made 7-10 yards, it's highly likely he's taking off and running to convert them. That's cool in college..you can get away with it when you're one of the best athletes on the field...Look at that drive above...4th and 7 when they had to have a conversion....he took off.

"hung in the back" is not the same as standing tall in the pocket.....i remember that play well..he was waaayy in the back and any time anyone remotely made a step to him he was setting up to bail....watching the rush a little too much. Any time anyone gets close to him he's pretty much bailing out of the pocket. The mere fact you had to throw that whole explanation in there illustrates my point. If he proliferates that tendency in the
NFL teams will conspire to keep him in the pocket and make him beat them throwing....maybe he can learn to...who knows...his mindset has to change though.

He's got VY syndrome..."oh....well i can get that running...not worried about these guys being able to catch me..." Well, there's alot of guys up there who can catch you...

Jeff Garcia is his ceiling...tops......and that's if he gets into the right system, with the right coach and he learns to think pass 1st instead of run.....hey thats good right?
After Serderius Bryant got injured, they showed a replay of that 4th and 7 rushing conversion using the overhanging camera from right behind Manziel. For a moment you got to see what Manziel would have been seeing.

All his receivers were covered. Manziel had three options - throw it into coverage and risk a pick or an incompletion that would result in a turnover, throw it out of bounds and turn the ball over, or pick up 7 yards rushing.

Would you rather have Texas A&M turn the ball over on downs? It was a do-or-die play and you're criticizing him for making it by himself, especially when there was no other way?

If Andrew Luck did the same thing on 4th and 7 we would have all been rah-rahing about how clutch he is. You're arguing using preconception.
htownfan32 is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #727
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Haters gonna hate. Logic and objectiveness have no meaning to them. Everything is colored by their preconceived notions. Good decisions are dismissed or explained away and bad ones are used as proof.

It's also obvious he hasn't watched or paid attention to many games he's played this year with the statement "plays that have to be made 7-10 yards, it's highly likely he's taking off and running to convert them." That's high comedy for anyone who actually pays attention.
Stemp is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #728
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
Haters gonna hate. Logic and objectiveness have no meaning to them. Everything is colored by their preconceived notions. Good decisions are dismissed or explained away and bad ones are used as proof.

It's also obvious he hasn't watched or paid attention to many games he's played this year with the statement "plays that have to be made 7-10 yards, it's highly likely he's taking off and running to convert them." That's high comedy for anyone who actually pays attention.
I've watched all but 2 of his games this year....seems to me you're the 1 not paying attention..maybe you dont want to. Really dont care...all i know is the numbers are on my side when it comes to qb's like him....

For all this uproar about running qbs and spread offenses "taking over" the nfl, the best qb's in the NFL are still the guys who can sit in the pocket and comfortably make the throws....The best qb prospects to come out over the last decade or so....mostly pocket passers...deal with it.
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #729
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I've watched all but 2 of his games this year....seems to me you're the 1 not paying attention..maybe you dont want to. Really dont care...all i know is the numbers are on my side when it comes to qb's like him....

For all this uproar about running qbs and spread offenses "taking over" the nfl, the best qb's in the NFL are still the guys who can sit in the pocket and comfortably make the throws....The best qb prospects to come out over the last decade or so....mostly pocket passers...deal with it.
How about some facts from the last game.

57 plays between 5 and 10 yards where Manziel rushed or passed
12 rushes, 45 passes
Of those 12 rushes only 4 were not on first down.

So explain to me how throwing the ball 79% of the time on plays between 5 and 10 yards is "highly likely he's taking off and running to convert"??


Quote:
1st and 10 at TA&M 22 Johnny Manziel rush for 17 yards to the TexAM 39 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 39 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Sabian Holmes for 4 yards to the TexAM 43.
2nd and 6 at TA&M 43 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 3 yards to the TexAM 46.
1st and 10 at MISS 45 Johnny Manziel rush for 1 yard to the Miss 44.
2nd and 9 at MISS 44 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Ben Malena for 2 yards to the Miss 42.
3rd and 7 at MISS 42 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 35 yards to the Miss 7 for a 1ST down.

1st and 10 at MISS 45 Johnny Manziel sacked by Tony Conner for a loss of 7 yards to the TexAM 48, TEXAS A&M penalty 0 yard Intentional Grounding accepted.
1st and 10 at MISS 24 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Sabian Holmes for 2 yards to the TexAM 27.
2nd and 8 at TA&M 27 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Sabian Holmes for 21 yards to the TexAM 48 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 48 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 17 yards to the Miss 35 for a 1ST down.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete to Malcome Kennedy.
2nd and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for a loss of 4 yards to the TexAM 21.
3rd and 7 at TA&M 48 Johnny Manziel rush for 7 yards to the Miss 45 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 12 at MISS 47 Johnny Manziel rush for 2 yards to the Miss 45.
3rd and 10 at MISS 45 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Ben Malena for a loss of 5 yards to the 50 yard line.

1st and 10 at TA&M 36 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete to Mike Evans. 14 10
3rd and 6 at TA&M 40 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Derel Walker for 8 yards to the TexAM 48 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 48 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Mike Evans for 6 yards to the Miss 46.

1st and 10 at TA&M 37 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 6 yards to the TexAM 43.
1st and 10 at MISS 49 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Mike Evans for 11 yards to the Miss 38 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 8 at MISS 36 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Derel Walker for 13 yards to the Miss 23 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 23 Johnny Manziel rush for 2 yards to the Miss 21.
2nd and 8 at MISS 21 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 17 yards to the Miss 4 for a 1ST down.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 21 yards to the TexAM 46 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 46 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 3 yards to the TexAM 49.
2nd and 7 at TA&M 49 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 7 yards to the Miss 44 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 7 at MISS 41 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Edward Pope for 9 yards to the Miss 32 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 32 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete to Malcome Kennedy.
2nd and 10 at MISS 32 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 17 yards to the Miss 15 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 15 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 5 yards to the Miss 10.
2nd and 5 at MISS 10 Johnny Manziel pass intercepted by Keith Lewis at the Miss 0, returned for 8 yards to the Miss 8.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 21 yards to the TexAM 46 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 46 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 3 yards to the TexAM 49.
2nd and 7 at TA&M 49 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 7 yards to the Miss 44 for a 1ST down.
1st and 20 at TA&M 46 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 13 yards to the Miss 41.
2nd and 7 at MISS 41 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Edward Pope for 9 yards to the Miss 32 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 32 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete to Malcome Kennedy.
2nd and 10 at MISS 32 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 17 yards to the Miss 15 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 15 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Travis Labhart for 5 yards to the Miss 10.
2nd and 5 at MISS 10 Johnny Manziel pass intercepted by Keith Lewis at the Miss 0, returned for 8 yards to the Miss 8.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Derel Walker for 10 yards to the TexAM 35 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 35 Johnny Manziel rush for 6 yards, fumbled, recovered by Miss Trae Elston at the TexAM 41.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel rush for 1 yard to the TexAM 26.
2nd and 9 at TA&M 26 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete.
3rd and 9 at TA&M 26 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Derel Walker for 27 yards to the Miss 47 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 47 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 19 yards to the Miss 28 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 3 at MISS 21 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 3 yards to the Miss 18, MISSISSIPPI penalty 10 yard Personal Foul on Taylor Bertolet accepted for a 1ST down.

1st and 10 at TA&M 25 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Mike Evans for 3 yards to the TexAM 28.
2nd and 7 at TA&M 28 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Malcome Kennedy for 24 yards to the Miss 48 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 48 Johnny Manziel pass incomplete.
4th and 7 at MISS 45 Johnny Manziel rush for 13 yards to the Miss 32 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 32 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Mike Evans for 26 yards to the Miss 6 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at MISS 6 Johnny Manziel rush for 6 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.

1st and 10 at TA&M 29 Johnny Manziel pass complete to Derel Walker for 14 yards to the TexAM 43 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TA&M 43 Johnny Manziel rush for 12 yards to the Miss 45 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MISS 45 Johnny Manziel rush for 13 yards to the Miss 32 for a 1ST down.

Johnny was 31/39 for 346 yards and a 79% completion rate.

So.... what game were you watching again?
Stemp is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #730
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Oh and in case you were wondering, against Arkansas, he only ran 9 times the entire game, and only 4 were when there was between 5 and 10 yards to go.
Stemp is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #731
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,601
Rep Power: 56086 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
How about some facts from the last game.

57 plays between 5 and 10 yards where Manziel rushed or passed
12 rushes, 45 passes
Of those 12 rushes only 4 were not on first down.

So explain to me how throwing the ball 79% of the time on plays between 5 and 10 yards is "highly likely he's taking off and running to convert"??

Johnny was 31/39 for 346 yards and a 79% completion rate.

So.... what game were you watching again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
Oh and in case you were wondering, against Arkansas, he only ran 9 times the entire game, and only 4 were when there was between 5 and 10 yards to go.
dadgumit I just hate it when facts get in the way of a bad argument.
Texian is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #732
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
How about some facts from the last game.

57 plays between 5 and 10 yards where Manziel rushed or passed
12 rushes, 45 passes
Of those 12 rushes only 4 were not on first down.

So explain to me how throwing the ball 79% of the time on plays between 5 and 10 yards is "highly likely he's taking off and running to convert"??





Johnny was 31/39 for 346 yards and a 79% completion rate.

So.... what game were you watching again?
Lol, you pick 1 game, highlight a few things and think you're proving something? I only used the 7-10 yard range b/c thats the range in which he's most likely to be able to pick it up running the ball...it'd be quite silly of him to think he could pick up a first down running the ball on anything more than that....he's gotta sit back and try to throw it on anything over 10 yards.

But How about the fact that he's had double digit carries in 1/2 the games this year with a high of 19 last week...some of those are designed runs...but still too many for a qb..

How about the fact that of his 5 ints, 3 have come in the red zone?

He trusts his legs more than his arm....common thing with running qbs.
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #733
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
 
htownfan32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 3,912
Rep Power: 112833 htownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Lol, you pick 1 game, highlight a few things and think you're proving something? I only used the 7-10 yard range b/c thats the range in which he's most likely to be able to pick it up running the ball...it'd be quite silly of him to think he could pick up a first down running the ball on anything more than that....he's gotta sit back and try to throw it on anything over 10 yards.

But How about the fact that he's had double digit carries in 1/2 the games this year with a high of 19 last week...some of those are designed runs...but still too many for a qb..

How about the fact that of his 5 ints, 3 have come in the red zone?

He trusts his legs more than his arm....common thing with running qbs.
Three of his interceptions are tipped passes by his own receivers.

Shredding Alabama's secondary to the tune of 400+ yards passing is trusting his legs over his arm?

oooookay.
htownfan32 is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #734
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Lol, you pick 1 game, highlight a few things and think you're proving something? I only used the 7-10 yard range b/c thats the range in which he's most likely to be able to pick it up running the ball...it'd be quite silly of him to think he could pick up a first down running the ball on anything more than that....he's gotta sit back and try to throw it on anything over 10 yards.

But How about the fact that he's had double digit carries in 1/2 the games this year with a high of 19 last week...some of those are designed runs...but still too many for a qb..

How about the fact that of his 5 ints, 3 have come in the red zone?

He trusts his legs more than his arm....common thing with running qbs.
And comments like these show how ridiculous you are. Your statements contradict each other as well as the facts and you just dismiss facts that prove you are wrong.

First, I used the statement you made and even expanded the amount to 5- 10 yards and the facts still proved you wrong.

The game I picked WAS his highest rushing amount of the year, so wouldn't that be the best and most extreme example to use? If you statement is true, wouldn't the game he rushed the most have the best chance to prove your right? Too bad the facts prove you wrong.

Second, how can you state "He trusts his legs more than his arm....common thing with running qbs." when the sentence RIGHT BEFORE you said " of his 5 ints, 3 have come in the red zone?" If he trusted his legs more, WOULDN'T THE MAJORITY OF HIS INT'S BE OUTSIDE THE REDZONE? In fact, the problem is he trusts his arm a bit too much, ESPECIALLY in the redzone. If he trusts his legs, wouldn't the majority of his rushes be on 2nd, 3rd or 4th down when they need a 1st down? So why did he only run a small percentage of those plays when he had he ball in his hand?

Does manziel run more than pocket QBs? Yes, of course. He's got speed and vision any offense would be wise to take advantage of that, just like they do with russell wilson, who rushes 25% of his touches, Colin Kaepernic who rushes 17%, and RG3 who rushed 24% last year (prior to the injury).

You wear hater glasses when you watch Manziel play and it distorts your view of what is actually happening and the fact that your opinions are factually wrong.
Stemp is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #735
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
 
FirstTexansFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Braunfels, Tx.
Age: 56
Posts: 2,297
Rep Power: 29448 FirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to FirstTexansFan
Default Re: Manziel

Blah blah blah.... Bitter .... Blah blah blah.... UofH fan.... Blah blah blah.... I know more than you ..... Blah blah blah ..... We beat OU... Blah blah blah
__________________
Dread-Head's #1 Fan, Because He Hates The Cowboys As Much As Me!
FirstTexansFan is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #736
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
And comments like these show how ridiculous you are. Your statements contradict each other as well as the facts and you just dismiss facts that prove you are wrong.

First, I used the statement you made and even expanded the amount to 5- 10 yards and the facts still proved you wrong.

The game I picked WAS his highest rushing amount of the year, so wouldn't that be the best and most extreme example to use? If you statement is true, wouldn't the game he rushed the most have the best chance to prove your right or wrong?

Second, how can you state "He trusts his legs more than his arm....common thing with running qbs." when the sentence RIGHT BEFORE you said " of his 5 ints, 3 have come in the red zone?" If he trusted his legs more, WOULDN'T THE MAJORITY OF HIS INT'S BE OUTSIDE THE REDZONE? In fact, the problem is he trusts his arm a bit too much, ESPECIALLY in the redzone. If he trusts his legs, wouldn't the majority of his rushes be on 2nd, 3rd or 4th down when they need a 1st down? So why did he only run a small percentage of those plays when he had he ball in his hand?

Does manziel run more than pocket QBs? Yes, of course. He's got speed and vision any offense would be wise to take advantage of that, just like they do with russell wilson, who rushes 25% of his touches, Colin Kaepernic who rushes 17%, and RG3 who rushed 24% last year (prior to the injury).

You wear hater glasses when you watch Manziel play and it distorts your view of what is actually happening and the fact that your opinions are factually wrong.
You say im factually wrong....then agree with me in the same post......

Too much garbage to debunk in your post....You obviously feel and see something 1 way...i feel and see something another. Lets just leave it at that....
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #737
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan View Post
Blah blah blah.... Bitter .... Blah blah blah.... UofH fan.... Blah blah blah.... I know more than you ..... Blah blah blah ..... We beat OU... Blah blah blah
??????
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #738
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
You say im factually wrong....then agree with me in the same post......
I didn't agree with you an anything. You said he trusts his legs too much. I said he trusts his ARM too much.

I said he runs more than pocket passers, but he doesn't take off as soon as anyone comes near him, at least not this season.

Quote:
Too much garbage to debunk in your post....You obviously feel and see something 1 way...i feel and see something another. Lets just leave it at that....
Too much garbage. Facts are garbage to you I guess.


MrTex watching Johnny Manziel
Stemp is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #739
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,725
Rep Power: 94100 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
I didn't agree with you an anything. You said he trusts his legs too much. I said he trusts his ARM too much.

I said he runs more than pocket passers, but he doesn't take off as soon as anyone comes near him, at least not this season.



Too much garbage. Facts are garbage to you I guess.


MrTex watching Johnny Manziel

You still have yet to debunk the fact that running qbs in the nfl dont last in the Nfl or at least tremendously change their game to become more pocket passer types when they enter and your boy will inevitably have to change his game...deal with that huge fact...

And if im blind watching him play and saying what im saying, i guess there's gonna be a whole lot of blind people come nfl combine and scout eval time..
Cause i can almost guarantee you many will shy away from b/c of his tendency to want to run...

stay in your maroon cocoon...and i'll gladly keep my hater shades on
Mr teX is offline  
Old 10-16-2013   #740
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,117
Rep Power: 46692 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
You still have yet to debunk the fact that running qbs in the nfl dont last in the Nfl or at least tremendously change their game to become more pocket passer types when they enter and your boy will inevitably have to change his game...deal with that huge fact...

And if im blind watching him play and saying what im saying, i guess there's gonna be a whole lot of blind people come nfl combine and scout eval time..
Cause i can almost guarantee you many will shy away from b/c of his tendency to want to run...

stay in your maroon cocoon...and i'll gladly keep my hater shades on
You are trying to change your argument. In fact, your arguements have been all over the place and changed and you keep trying to change it to that subject which no one disputes when you continually get proven wrong.

Here are the things you've said I take issue with which the facts proven your wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Stop making excuses for this dude...he's a punk.....evidenced by his lack of regard for his coach's situation in having to handle the circus he's brought to town with his offseason antics
Sumlin said he shouldn't have replied at all with what Sumlin said to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
Quote:
HATERAID
Yep, sure am...don't think he's that good...sorry
At least here you admitted you were a hater. Then you actually tried to defend yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
he's good...but he's not nearly as good as people think prop him up to be...Dude had 1 good game against a great team.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
never said he sucks...just that he aint as good as everyone thinks is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
That's how he plays... That **** won't fly on the next level.... Dude's overrated as hell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
Throwing the rock up for grabs and depending on your wr to make the play for you NUMEROUS times makes you a great college qb?...ok if you say so.
Again, I lauged at this. If you have a 6' 5" WR with soft hands and who you know will almost always come down with the ball, why wouldn't you throw it up there? Too bad for you though that even when Evans was injured or covered, Manziel still found his other receivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
There is no evidence except for his stats..
I actually laughed when I read this. And I laugh even more now when he's played Bama again, as well as good Ole Miss and a better Arkansas and arguably played even better than last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
When your game as a qb is highly dependent on making things happen with your legs like his is, you've got a problem when you go to the next level simply b/c you wont be able to run away from pressure as easily up there as you did in college. Once that is curtailed, you become a different player. You see how RG3 looks now that he's unable to run.
too bad I just proved he doesn't look to run as much as you claim. Plus RG3 is injured and there are other QB's who run about the same amount as he does that are succeeding in the NFL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX
Any time as a qb your 1st instinct is to run...not really comfortable sitting in the pocket.... most of the plays you make when its crunch time are of you running....
again proven false. Kinda hard to claim a guy is a running QB when he's 4th in the nation in passing yards per game, 6th nationally in total QBR and 2nd in the SEC (13th nationally) in total passing yards.
Stemp is offline  
Closed Thread

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger