Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2013   #21
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
 
HTown2ATX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 3,943
Rep Power: 56069 HTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respectedHTown2ATX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

It will be obvious whether Keenum is doing well or not regardless of wins and losses. Can't hold him accountable for drops, bad defense, bad o-line etc.

It will be obvious if he is making quick and anywhere near correct decisions.

So I don't need tons of stats necessarily. Just mostly clean games, with deeper throws, not going fetal in the pocket and keeping drives alive.

Keenum needs to be given the same chance any first year starter would with enough rope to hang himself should that be the case. I can already sense the knee jerk people out there just frothing at the mouth for that first pick to scream SEE! SEE! I TOLD YOU SO!!

fap fap fap
__________________

Into black waves I am sinking,Drowning away from the ghosts,Disappearing into eternity,Into the mirror of my soul,The pounding sound is mesmerizing
HTown2ATX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #22
2slik4u
All Pro
 
2slik4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: round rock
Section: My Couch
Age: 31
Posts: 953
Rep Power: 11791 2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
simple question... b/c at this point its a matter of "when" not "if".

Is it something as simple as just not turning the ball over or making plays?

Or is it specific like a certain stat line or a stat line in conjunction with a few other things?

I kind have mixed feelings about this. I think i'd need to see a combination of great stats and...how kubiak handles him....how he plays when the bright lights are on etc...
I would say deliver a "W" against the Chiefs...or any team for that matter.
__________________
Ill be where I'm at.
2slik4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #23
Exascor
Hall of Fame
 
Exascor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Posts: 1,582
Rep Power: 35348 Exascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Let's say he finishes out the season. Would you be happy with the stats of another QB who started in his 2nd year?

W/L 50%, 60.8 % comp., 1:1 TD:INT, 6.2 ypa, 205 ypg, 76.9 QB rating.

Would that be good enough for you to anoint him for next year or would you still be looking for a new starter?
I'm not sure who's stats those are cak but I'd be looking for a new qb. If he doesn't light it up, it will be tough for me to want to risk him not improving. If our first round pick qb had those stats it would be different IMO.
__________________
Texans v3.0 - Currently in alpha testing - Expected release date 9/7/2014
Exascor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #24
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,569
Rep Power: 69152 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
You mean like you do for Schaub?

What's with the hate anyways? I mean what makes you a member of the "Case crew"? Im not even a UofH fan, but I do want to see him get a shot. You act like we're putting Tom Brady or Brees on the bench to see him play or something. Newsflash, the crappy play of Schaub and Yates is the only reason why this is even a realistic discussion so if you want to blame someone for the "Case crew", blame them



I dont blame gary for Matt's ill performance.


The hate? Its more like the reality check. If Case comes in and wins out there would be no one happier than myself because whoever suits up for the Texans I will be pulling for. The amount of love and froth around Case is well beyond what he deserves
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #25
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
 
JCTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin
Age: 25
Posts: 4,000
Rep Power: 36122 JCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedJCTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

The answer for me is quite simple. For me to think he is the starter beyond this year he has to do the basic things you look for in a QB: Hit his receivers in stride, get rid of the ball quick, stand in the pocket under pressure and be able to take a hit, be able to read defenses effectively, etc..
JCTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #26
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,636
Rep Power: 80468 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
I would say deliver a "W" against the Chiefs...or any team for that matter.
Lol, 1 win and you'd go all in? wow...
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #27
Sigma
All Pro
 
Sigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: PD - Italy
Posts: 550
Rep Power: 22499 Sigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respectedSigma is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

If I'll enjoy watching the games I won't complain.

I don't complain much even now, but I'm starting to lose excitement waiting for the "next game".
__________________
Texans fan from Italy
Sigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #28
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,460
Rep Power: 78237 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Keenum doesn't have anything to prove to me, except to keep working harder to evolve with the pro game.

The only thing that can keep him back is injury.

I applaud Art Briles for seeing the kid as a sophomore from a small high school with all the natural ability for the QB position.
Making other players around him better is what Keenum does.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/case-keenum

That is exactly what I want from my QB.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #29
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

What keenum will have to do in order for me to not want a first round qb is have 1 or 2 games where he's just excellent.

I'm excited about keenum and I think he can take the job, but if he doesn't do something to make me believe he's a franchise guy, there's no way I'd pass on taking a qb this year.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #30
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,050
Rep Power: 208669 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

He doesn't have to blaze a trail in the first game, that's for sure. I want to see him competently manage games and move the ball down the field. I want to see him keep the mistakes to a minimum, and keep them from happening at critical moments. In other words, I want to see him answer the challenge of the big moments. If he plays well enough to continue starting, I want to see him make plays to win. I want to see him move in the pocket well enough so that a play isn't forfeit the moment a pass rusher beats his man. I want to see him throw the ball down the field, instead of constantly checking down and throwing underneath. This offense is a short passing offense much of the time, but we've all seen the vertical game disappear completely this season. I want that to change.

Not all of that has to happen in the first game. But if he plays well enough to continue starting, I expect him to have proven he belongs by year end. I don't care about stats. I'm tired of looking at Schaub's 250+ yards a game and knowing he's played like crap.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #31
kingtexan
Hall of Fame
 
kingtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,822
Rep Power: 34103 kingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedkingtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

If he gets his chance, I think he will convince us all.
kingtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #32
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Let's say he finishes out the season. Would you be happy with the stats of another QB who started in his 2nd year?

W/L 50%, 60.8 % comp., 1:1 TD:INT, 6.2 ypa, 205 ypg, 76.9 QB rating.

Would that be good enough for you to anoint him for next year or would you still be looking for a new starter?
Depends on how he looked doing it. If he had that Stat line but made some great throws, made some clutch plays....visually passed the eye test, then absolutely.

Coversely, he could put up stats that would extrapolate to 4000 yards and if he looked like ho-hum Harry doing it, I'd be looking for a franchise guy in the draft.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #33
GuerillaBlack
Money!
 
GuerillaBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montrose
Age: 22
Posts: 9,036
Rep Power: 20333 GuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respectedGuerillaBlack is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Depends on how he looked doing it. If he had that Stat line but made some great throws, made some clutch plays....visually passed the eye test, then absolutely.

Coversely, he could put up stats that would extrapolate to 4000 yards and if he looked like ho-hum Harry doing it, I'd be looking for a franchise guy in the draft.
You should know that stats are on the only thing that matters.
GuerillaBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #34
BullNation4Life
Hall of Fame
 
BullNation4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cypress, Tx
Section: Living Room 77429
Posts: 2,852
Rep Power: 49664 BullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respectedBullNation4Life is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Blown out in 3 of the last 4 games....you think starting case is gonna fix all those problems that contributed to that?
If he is sustaining drives and not going 3 and out every possession, keeping the other offense on the sideline, sure it would help. I watched Rivers do it to the Colts just the other night.

If Keenum can keep drives going, either with his arm or legs, then I think the Texans will start playing a hell of allot better on defense.
__________________


Ohhh, uh oh, it's FitzMagic....
BullNation4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #35
2slik4u
All Pro
 
2slik4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: round rock
Section: My Couch
Age: 31
Posts: 953
Rep Power: 11791 2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Lol, 1 win and you'd go all in? wow...
Man, at this point - yes.

I'm in dire straits as a Texan fan currently.
__________________
Ill be where I'm at.
2slik4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #36
Stemp
Brew Master
 
Stemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Temple, TX
Section: Sec 118 Row H
Age: 37
Posts: 7,076
Rep Power: 46286 Stemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respectedStemp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Beat Denver or go score for score and win @indy and ill jump on the wagon
Stemp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #37
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
 
Mr teX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everyone Wants The Throne
Posts: 7,636
Rep Power: 80468 Mr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respectedMr teX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
You should know that stats are on the only thing that matters.
You'll notice i said stats in combination with something else. In any event if he plays well, the numbers will be there. Saying you'd just want him to "win games" or "make plays" on their own doesnt say much about his play in particular. Tim Tebow won games and made plays when he had to.......but i think people who watched him knew he was terrible and the stats bore that out.
Mr teX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #38
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,465
Rep Power: 283896 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
What Id like to know is if he starts what would have to happen for the Case crew to fold and say he cant play. I imagine if he gets game time any bad play will be explained away for a million reasons other than Case being Case
Kubiak will get blamed if Keenum does not live up to expectations.

Nevermind the fact that Kubiak is the only coach in the NFL to give him a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Let's say he finishes out the season. Would you be happy with the stats of another QB who started in his 2nd year?

W/L 50%, 60.8 % comp., 1:1 TD:INT, 6.2 ypa, 205 ypg, 76.9 QB rating.

Would that be good enough for you to anoint him for next year or would you still be looking for a new starter?
They have to keep looking for a starter, IMO. The only way to know that Keenum is "The Man" is if he steps up and does more than just manage games. He's going to have to exceed expectations and do 'magic' things for this team, like inspire them to greatness and climb out of the hole they have dug for themselves this season.

If he comes in and is just better than Schaub and Yates, I think the franchise needs to keep looking, if for nothing else to challenge the position in the off-season and give some competition for the job.

As a Texans fan, I hope he does it with all my heart and soul. I sincerely wish he takes this team to the playoffs this year, even if it means saving Kubiak's job.

That said, hope and reality are often at odds. Battle between the heart and mind sort of thing. I hope for the best, but I'm prepared to see a 3rd string QB with no experience get baptized by fire in one of the toughest stadiums in the NFL (should he get the start). It could get ugly. Fast.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #39
michaelm
vox nihili
 
michaelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Spring, TX
Section: 648
Age: 48
Posts: 5,568
Rep Power: 85708 michaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respectedmichaelm is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Out of the three QBs on our roster, he basically only needs to NOT be Schaub or Yates.
Looks like he's got that covered, so I'm convinced that he's the guy going forward (out of our current three).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Our LB corps is a dumpster fire.
michaelm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013   #40
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,033
Rep Power: 35068 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: What does Keenum have to do to convince you he's the guy going forward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Kubiak will get blamed if Keenum does not live up to expectations.

Nevermind the fact that Kubiak is the only coach in the NFL to give him a chance.
I can only speak for myself, but the reason why I want to see Case is two fold:
- he may be able to provide a spark and make the other 52 believe again
- or to put the spotlight back on Kubiak due to his archaic scheme and the notion that he is a developer of QBs

For me it has never been about Case, it is about Kubiak.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger