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Old 10-16-2013   #21
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by Perki-Perk View Post
Tell that to the Packers, Patriots, Colts, and Steelers...Ravens....Etc, etc...
Packers = 2 SB wins in the 20 years of Favre/Rodgers

Patriots = Haven't won a SB in almost a decade

Colts = 1 SB win in the entire Payton Manning era

Steelers = Closest argument with two SB wins in last decade, but like the Giants, they either go big or go home. And both teams really, really, REALLY suck right now.

Ravens = 1 SB win in the last decade

Let's add the always-compared-to Saints with one SB win in the last decade.


Take away the one SB win from the Colts, Packers and Ravens, and these teams are the exact same thing that the Texans have been for the last few years: winning record, getting to the playoffs, getting a few playoff wins.

I guess I don't understand the logic of ONE Super Bowl win in a decade making these other teams "consistently better" than the Texans.

After all, the ultimate litmus test is winning it all, right? Winning records and a few playoff wins don't mean jack, right? Isn't that the standard that we hold the Texans to?

Once a decade does not make a consistently great team. Unless of course we are going to rate them on a different scale to support our desire to change regimes.
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Old 10-16-2013   #22
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Packers = 2 SB wins in the 20 years of Favre/Rodgers

Patriots = Haven't won a SB in almost a decade

Colts = 1 SB win in the entire Payton Manning era

Steelers = Closest argument with two SB wins in last decade, but like the Giants, they either go big or go home. And both teams really, really, REALLY suck right now.

Ravens = 1 SB win in the last decade

Let's add the always-compared-to Saints with one SB win in the last decade.


Take away the one SB win from the Colts, Packers and Ravens, and these teams are the exact same thing that the Texans have been for the last few years: winning record, getting to the playoffs, getting a few playoff wins.

I guess I don't understand the logic of ONE Super Bowl win in a decade making these other teams "consistently better" than the Texans.

After all, the ultimate litmus test is winning it all, right? Winning records and a few playoff wins don't mean jack, right? Isn't that the standard that we hold the Texans to?

Once a decade does not make a consistently great team. Unless of course we are going to rate them on a different scale to support our desire to change regimes.
I don't understand why you "just take away" the Super Bowl wins from teams to prove they are just like the Texans. Why don't we just "add a couple" of Super Bowl wins to the Texans to prove the Texans have had more success?

I don't think the Kubiak Texans should be considered a consistent playoff team yet. They consistently finish around .500 with their two 8-8 and one 9-7 seasons. They did fall off to 6-10 one year, which is nicely offset by the 10-6 season and their first playoff appearance. They had one very good year at 12-4 last year.

Looking at the Kubiak era, the Texans are more of an average team with one big spike at 12-4 than a consistent playoff contender. At 2-4 over a third of the way into the season, this season will likely be mediocre rather than playoff contending too.
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Old 10-16-2013   #23
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Derek Newton & Duane Brown talk about the QB situation on the Duane Brown show, check out the podcast
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Old 10-16-2013   #24
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Gary Kubiak never had the answers. Guys like Sean Peyton, the Brothers Haurbaugh, even Pete Carroll have the answers.


and just when you think Kubiak has finally gotten the answers, the NFL changes the questions and he falls farther behind...

It is beyond sad to watch happen...
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Old 10-16-2013   #25
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Kubiak ran out of answers (IMO he never had answers) the season before Wade was hired. As I have posted here several times over, he admitted it on his show. When that season was ending he was asked on his show "What do you think you can do to fix this thing?". He flat out said "I don't know, I don't have the answer right now".

It was like he knew he was being fired, gave up and was just being honest at that point.

Instead of firing him, McNair threw Wade at him. That did get the team to the "next level" (a playoff win) however as we have seen that is as far as that was going to go.

IMO, the greater problem with this team is McNair. Kubiak should have been gone after that season. McNair's personal affection for people keeps setting this team back. First it was David Carr, now it's Kubiak.
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Old 10-16-2013   #26
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Wade is easily the best thing that happened to the Texans and Gary. He completely changed the defense and picked up Watt. He was pretty much the turning point. That just goes to show how much he saved Kubiak's job. I am in no way condoning him for HC, by the way. I just remember when Wade was hired for DC how pissed I was initially because I knew Kubiak was going to be still around. Looks like my gut was right all along. Stupid gut.
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Old 10-16-2013   #27
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Wade is easily the best thing that happened to the Texans and Gary. He completely changed the defense and picked up Watt. He was pretty much the turning point. That just goes to show how much he saved Kubiak's job. I am in no way condoning him for HC, by the way. I just remember when Wade was hired for DC how pissed I was initially because I knew Kubiak was going to be still around. Looks like my gut was right all along. Stupid gut.
Agreed 100%. I wasn't happy either but was willing to play the "wait and see" game. To me it was an experiment to see if 2 solid coordinators (minus a head coach) could win.

I think we can say "limited success" is the result. The conclusion is you MUST have a good head coach to go far no matter how good the coordinators are.

Gary needs to go back to just being a coordinator somewhere and take some time off before that to come up with some new material because what he's got now is predictable and played out.
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Old 10-16-2013   #28
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Kubiak may be out of answers, but who here actually believes that McNair will fire Gary at the end of the year? We'll have an awful season, 5-11 or 6-10 or a run vs some of our softer opponents to get to 7-9 and Bob will say "blah blah injuries blah blah he's our guy blah blah on the right track". Our off season will be an offensive linemen heavy draft with a 4th round TJ Schaub type QB. Marciano will be the scape goat for the bad season and be **** canned. We'll sign a FA or 2 to fill some gaps. Matt will start the season with Gary calling plays. Nothing will change. We'll beat Sister Mary's school for the blind and choke/wet the bed against good teams. We'll have to sit through at least two more seasons like this one before Gary gets the Ax.
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Old 10-16-2013   #29
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Packers = 2 SB wins in the 20 years of Favre/Rodgers

Patriots = Haven't won a SB in almost a decade

Colts = 1 SB win in the entire Payton Manning era

Steelers = Closest argument with two SB wins in last decade, but like the Giants, they either go big or go home. And both teams really, really, REALLY suck right now.

Ravens = 1 SB win in the last decade

Let's add the always-compared-to Saints with one SB win in the last decade.


Take away the one SB win from the Colts, Packers and Ravens, and these teams are the exact same thing that the Texans have been for the last few years: winning record, getting to the playoffs, getting a few playoff wins.

I guess I don't understand the logic of ONE Super Bowl win in a decade making these other teams "consistently better" than the Texans.

After all, the ultimate litmus test is winning it all, right? Winning records and a few playoff wins don't mean jack, right? Isn't that the standard that we hold the Texans to?

Once a decade does not make a consistently great team. Unless of course we are going to rate them on a different scale to support our desire to change regimes.
It's a lot easier on the fans when you feel like you've always got a shot at winning a Super Bowl. Some teams have built those reputations to where the fans 'know' they'll get back to being a really good team pretty soon. Some teams feel like if they just get into the play-offs they have a good chance at running the tables.

I've had true excitement going into the play-offs 1 time. And that was the year Yates started. The unknown, our first play-off run, defense was balling.

Others than that, for me personally, the texans haven't given me much reason to be optimistic. I was not excited for this season at all.

So while those teams may "only " have 1 or 2 superbowls in the last few years, they have at least built something. They have laid a foundation for winning. This team is so slow reacting and methodical that by the time they think they have something figured out, the rest of the nfl is pulling their hands away saying "sike!".

Kubiak either needs to change and evolve at a faster pace or he needs to go. There is nothing about him or his teams that make me believe he'll eventually get up that hill no matter how many times he utters "I think I can".
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Old 10-16-2013   #30
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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UH OH

#suck4chuck
As much as we'd like that to be true, Rodney Harrison knows diddly about this team/organization. Huge grain of salt
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Old 10-16-2013   #31
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Packers = 2 SB wins in the 20 years of Favre/Rodgers

Patriots = Haven't won a SB in almost a decade

Colts = 1 SB win in the entire Payton Manning era

Steelers = Closest argument with two SB wins in last decade, but like the Giants, they either go big or go home. And both teams really, really, REALLY suck right now.

Ravens = 1 SB win in the last decade

Let's add the always-compared-to Saints with one SB win in the last decade.


Take away the one SB win from the Colts, Packers and Ravens, and these teams are the exact same thing that the Texans have been for the last few years: winning record, getting to the playoffs, getting a few playoff wins.

I guess I don't understand the logic of ONE Super Bowl win in a decade making these other teams "consistently better" than the Texans.

After all, the ultimate litmus test is winning it all, right? Winning records and a few playoff wins don't mean jack, right? Isn't that the standard that we hold the Texans to?

Once a decade does not make a consistently great team. Unless of course we are going to rate them on a different scale to support our desire to change regimes.
Pretty sure his point was not about them just winning it but the fact those teams are generally actual contenders year in and year out. We have not been that. We have been to the playoffs only two years and to be honest we tailspinned rather hard toward the end of last year so it's hard to say we were contenders. No one really gave us a hope and prayer of beating the Patriots for good reason. And if that was his point then he is correct.

Let's not act like we have reached those levels because we haven't. That's taking away from what those franchises have accomplished. It is what we aspire to be at this point. So saying today's market makes it hard to have continued success is partially true but if your organization has the right plan and execution it can happen. It just makes it more difficult for you to win Superbowl after Superbowl. Not be a true contender for one.
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Old 10-16-2013   #32
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Pretty sure his point was not about them just winning it but the fact those teams are generally actual contenders year in and year out. We have not been that. We have been to the playoffs only two years and to be honest we tailspinned rather hard toward the end of last year so it's hard to say we were contenders. No one really gave us a hope and prayer of beating the Patriots for good reason. And if that was his point then he is correct.

Let's not act like we have reached those levels because we haven't. That's taking away from what those franchises have accomplished. It is what we aspire to be at this point. So saying today's market makes it hard to have continued success is partially true but if your organization has the right plan and execution it can happen. It just makes it more difficult for you to win Superbowl after Superbowl. Not be a true contender for one.
While I understand your point, there is a definite overtone to this message board of not settling for "just" winning the division and divisional playoff game. The definition of Successful around these parts has been getting to and winning Super Bowls. Mediocrity has been defined as the last two seasons. Good but not good enough.

And yet, when we point to the franchises that are the model we expect the Texans to emulate, they don't consistently get to the Super Bowl. Only the Patriots and Steelers can talk about being consistent over the last several years, and they didn't win them all.

IMHO, it feels like we are playing moving goalposts. Coming off of last year and the expectations it produced, we were not accepting "having a shot". Now that this season has turned into what it is, now "having a shot" is what defines a consistently good team?

Hey, I'm not happy about this season at all. I am a HUGE stat guy and even I can't spin the numbers this year to mean anything other than the Kubiak/Schaub era is done. I just find it ironic that the great teams have been redefined from "making a Super Bowl" to "having a shot at making a Super Bowl".

Sometimes I think Houston sports fans get the teams they deserve...
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Old 10-16-2013   #33
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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I don't understand why you "just take away" the Super Bowl wins from teams to prove they are just like the Texans. Why don't we just "add a couple" of Super Bowl wins to the Texans to prove the Texans have had more success?

I don't think the Kubiak Texans should be considered a consistent playoff team yet. They consistently finish around .500 with their two 8-8 and one 9-7 seasons. They did fall off to 6-10 one year, which is nicely offset by the 10-6 season and their first playoff appearance. They had one very good year at 12-4 last year.

Looking at the Kubiak era, the Texans are more of an average team with one big spike at 12-4 than a consistent playoff contender. At 2-4 over a third of the way into the season, this season will likely be mediocre rather than playoff contending too.
I wasn't taking away from them being Super Bowl winners. Far from it.

I was pointing out the disconnect between the use of "consistently" with the words "good" and "great" for teams that have only gone to one Super Bowl in the last decade.

Because fans around here won't settle for anything less than Super Bowl appearances. Regular season wins, stats, winning the division, winning playoff games. None of that matters if you don't get to the big game.

Unless you are the Ravens. Or Colts. Or Packers. Or Saints. THESE are great teams because they've had a 10% success rate at getting to the Super Bowl over the last decade.
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Old 10-16-2013   #34
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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While I understand your point, there is a definite overtone to this message board of not settling for "just" winning the division and divisional playoff game. The definition of Successful around these parts has been getting to and winning Super Bowls. Mediocrity has been defined as the last two seasons. Good but not good enough.

And yet, when we point to the franchises that are the model we expect the Texans to emulate, they don't consistently get to the Super Bowl. Only the Patriots and Steelers can talk about being consistent over the last several years, and they didn't win them all.

IMHO, it feels like we are playing moving goalposts. Coming off of last year and the expectations it produced, we were not accepting "having a shot". Now that this season has turned into what it is, now "having a shot" is what defines a consistently good team?

Hey, I'm not happy about this season at all. I am a HUGE stat guy and even I can't spin the numbers this year to mean anything other than the Kubiak/Schaub era is done. I just find it ironic that the great teams have been redefined from "making a Super Bowl" to "having a shot at making a Super Bowl".

Sometimes I think Houston sports fans get the teams they deserve...
I want a team that I feel has a legitimate chance to win a SB every yr and management that will do whatever it takes to win. So far BoB/Rick/Gary haven't given me that vibe. BoB says he wants to emulate the Pats org. Yet Gary is his Belichick and Schaub is his Brady, which is laughable and why BoB needs to clean house in the worst way.

From Bud to Drayton to Les to BoB the fans of Houston sports deserve so much more than they have gotten from ownership in this town over the last 20 yrs. Oh well, atleast it appears the Rockets have finally decide to try to win an NBA title after almost 2 decades.
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Old 10-16-2013   #35
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Because fans around here won't settle for anything less than Super Bowl appearances. Regular season wins, stats, winning the division, winning playoff games. None of that matters if you don't get to the big game.

Unless you are the Ravens. Or Colts. Or Packers. Or Saints. THESE are great teams because they've had a 10% success rate at getting to the Super Bowl over the last decade.
Not to knock down your straw man or anything, but do you remember what the vibe was around here after the 2011 season? A loss in the playoffs and people were optimistic and hopeful. Contrast that with the 2012 season and people knew it was over before they even got to the playoffs. The point behind that is people recognize the subtleties of the situation. The Texans have been a mediocre team for almost all of Kubiak's regime. Take away the 12-4 season and what record does he have? 49-53. I'm not saying 12-4 meant nothing, and I'm happy it happened, even though the previous season was actually better. What I'm saying is 12-4 is an outlier. It's a deviation from the norm. If you look at the team's record since they were 11-1 last season, they're 3-7.

So which is it? We have a consistent winning team, or we have a team that overachieved for a short period of time? It's sure looking like the latter, and the math backs it up.
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Old 10-16-2013   #36
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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I'm not saying 12-4 meant nothing, and I'm happy it happened, even though the previous season was actually better. What I'm saying is 12-4 is an outlier. It's a deviation from the norm. If you look at the team's record since they were 11-1 last season, they're 3-7.

So which is it? We have a consistent winning team, or we have a team that overachieved for a short period of time? It's sure looking like the latter, and the math backs it up.
100% agree, great point.
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Old 10-16-2013   #37
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Not to knock down your straw man or anything, but do you remember what the vibe was around here after the 2011 season? A loss in the playoffs and people were optimistic and hopeful. Contrast that with the 2012 season and people knew it was over before they even got to the playoffs. The point behind that is people recognize the subtleties of the situation. The Texans have been a mediocre team for almost all of Kubiak's regime. Take away the 12-4 season and what record does he have? 49-53. I'm not saying 12-4 meant nothing, and I'm happy it happened, even though the previous season was actually better. What I'm saying is 12-4 is an outlier. It's a deviation from the norm. If you look at the team's record since they were 11-1 last season, they're 3-7.

So which is it? We have a consistent winning team, or we have a team that overachieved for a short period of time? It's sure looking like the latter, and the math backs it up.
Leaving the 12-4 in, Kubiak has a 52% (rounding up) regular season winning percentage. Adding in his 2-2 playoff record leaves his overall winning percentage at a rounded 52%. That is far, far closer to perfectly average than consistent winner. The Kubiak Texans are not consistent winners like some of the other teams listed.
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Old 10-16-2013   #38
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

Bob McNair is going to have to chose between Gary Kubiak and JJ Watt.

No way Watt's agents and advisors are going to suggest he re-sign here with Kubiak as the head coach. The guy is building a national profile, and will have other teams after him.

And before everyone says, "But JJ is a good guy! He'll want to stay here!" I'll say this: yes, he's a "good guy" but he's also very savvy. He may like Houston, but, he wants to win more.
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Old 10-16-2013   #39
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Bob McNair is going to have to chose between Gary Kubiak and JJ Watt.

No way Watt's agents and advisors are going to suggest he re-sign here with Kubiak as the head coach. The guy is building a national profile, and will have other teams after him.

And before everyone says, "But JJ is a good guy! He'll want to stay here!" I'll say this: yes, he's a "good guy" but he's also very savvy. He may like Houston, but, he wants to win more.
When exactly do you feel this issue is going to force itself?
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Old 10-16-2013   #40
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Default Re: Don Banks: Kubiak appears to be out of answers

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Bob McNair is going to have to chose between Gary Kubiak and JJ Watt.

No way Watt's agents and advisors are going to suggest he re-sign here with Kubiak as the head coach. The guy is building a national profile, and will have other teams after him.

And before everyone says, "But JJ is a good guy! He'll want to stay here!" I'll say this: yes, he's a "good guy" but he's also very savvy. He may like Houston, but, he wants to win more.
Yup, I know they can franchise him for a couple of years but after that, if the Texans have not changed status qoe, the Milkman will be headed out the door.

No way is he gonna spend his career like Andre Johnson has and be loyal to an organization that isn't loyal to building a franchise to win.
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