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Old 10-11-2013   #141
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.
Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less. Both players have one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

Hence why I asked you to describe "Schaub's resume". You act like he's led this team to perennial playoff appearances and winning seasons or something. I no longer just care about regular season success with this team, we should be beyond that and what I've learned from Schaub's resume is that with him at the helm we aren't going to have much postseason success.

You keep coddling Schaub and it needs to stop.. and this is coming from someone who doesn't even think Yates is the answer, however to act like a young guy (whoever that ends up being) shouldn't be pushing him, because Schaub has "accomplished more" in his 7 years of mediocrity is what is "intellectually dishonest".

More accomplished QBs are replaced by "young guys who don't have resumes" all the time. Schaub is currently playing himself out of a job regardless of what you feel of Yates or Keenum and even if he does salvage his season and holds on to the job this season.. I think it's pretty much safe to say he's already made it a certain Houston will be looking for his future replacement this offseason.
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Old 10-11-2013   #142
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
and if Eli Manning was in Houston, my guess is he would get the start over Schaub.
And if Eli Manning was in Houston, had the same short comings as Schaub, and the same exact type of career as Schaub has had in Houston, my guess is people would start to question if it was time to part ways and move on... just like they have done with Schaub.
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Old 10-11-2013   #143
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Default Re: Accountability

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TJ has started 7 games in the nfl, played 7.5 and has gone 4 td 6 ints
Matt the last 12 starts is 13 tds 14 ints. To help you that would put TJ less than 7 and over 10 ints
That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?
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Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year.
Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.
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Old 10-11-2013   #144
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Default Re: Accountability

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That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?

Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.
1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.

I have no problem with criticizing the Schaub re-signing coming of the 2011 injury. If he can't turn it around, it is that decision that will turn out to be very costly. Can't it simply be a mistake, though, instead of some character defect? Just because the Texan organization reaches different conclusions about players and situations than you do does not mean they aren't committed to winning- it means they see things differently.
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Old 10-11-2013   #145
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Default Re: Accountability

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Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less.
That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.
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Old 10-11-2013   #146
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?
Tj already looks better throwing to Jean & Martin. Then we've got DeAndre instead of KDub.

Our Receivers that year was Andre, Walter, Jacoby, Derrick Mason, & Bryant Johnson

This year he'll have Andre, Hopkins, Martin, Posey, Jean... they've got a lot to prove themselves, but I like their ceiling better than the other group.
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Old 10-12-2013   #147
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.
That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".
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Old 10-12-2013   #148
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".

Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.
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Old 10-12-2013   #149
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.
It's not really worth arguing. It is what it is. It is up to Schaub to prove Gary's trust is not misplaced.
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Old 10-12-2013   #150
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Default Re: Accountability

Schaub's not a good qb at this point. If you've want him to be the qb of this team from now till whenever, just understand we're playing with the odds stacked against is.

He's a qb that got fat off a good system, with very little playmaking ability and really nothing in regards to his game to write home about.

Whether you think it's keenum, Yates or a rookie....we need to be actively searching for a replacement. And that's pretty much where I salt and at this point. We need to be actively exploring an exit plan. He's a burden.
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Old 10-12-2013   #151
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.
First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.

Second, maybe Kubiak does think Schaub can return to form. Or maybe he's paralyzed by the fear of change. Or maybe he just thinks his alternatives suck. That's not what this thread is about. It's about accountability. And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable. Kubiak's "I can promise you there is accountability" rings hollow.
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Old 10-12-2013   #152
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Default Re: Accountability

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First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.
That may be my fault. I was not comparing the two on play merit or careers. I was only examining the assertion that if someone was playing like this in NY the media would be ripping them apart and it would force the team to be more accountable. Given what Eli and the Giants are going through it seemed like an apt test of that assertion.

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And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable.
Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.
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Old 10-12-2013   #153
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Default Re: Accountability

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Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.
I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play into next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.

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Old 10-12-2013   #154
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Default Re: Accountability

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I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play in to next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.
Schaub has led his team to two come from behind wins this year- throwing the ball in difficult situations... Eli has yet to win a game. Eli does have some weapons: Nicks, Cruz, Randle, D.Wilson. According to PFF, the Texans' pass protection is the worst rated in the NFL: #32.
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Old 10-12-2013   #155
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Default Re: Accountability

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Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.
I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.
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Old 10-12-2013   #156
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Default Re: Accountability

Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.
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Old 10-12-2013   #157
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by cstyle42 View Post
Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.
You mean overlooked by fans, or the coaches??
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Old 10-12-2013   #158
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.

I never argued Schaub was ever at Peyton, Brees, or Brady level. However, don't kid yourself... Schaub helped this team win a lot of games in 08 and 09 that they would've lost with a mediocre QB...

Still, the only reason I'm bringing up Schaub's history is because you have argued that he has not earned the resume to start over Yates... That is your argument, not mine.

I am very concerned about Schaub's play. It was awful in December and January last season... I thought he looked very good (despite some mistakes) the first couple games... I was extremely encouraged. However, the last six quarters of football have me worried about his arm strength, not to mention his mental and emotional health and the team's confidence in him. I can see this season falling apart if he does not get it together or if Kubiak stays with him too long.

All I am defending (in this thread entitled "Accountability") is the belief that Kubiak's decision to play Schaub this week is based on his desire and intention for this year's team to be successful. That's it. I'm not saying he is right. I'm saying his motives are, of course, in the right place... I think his decision is a reasonable conclusion given his current options, and I certainly hope it works out.
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Old 10-12-2013   #159
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Default Re: Accountability

Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.
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Old 10-12-2013   #160
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.
Mediocre is ordinary, average. Schaub is no longer average. I would take mediocre Matt Schaub right now.
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