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Old 10-11-2013   #101
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
It didn't make sense to get rid of JJ before that awful 2nd contract? Yeah, he only dropped a ton more punts and kick offs and continued to fail to become a decent receiver as a #2 or a #3. We won't even go there on the Ravens game.

YOu were the worst complainer of Mario, and it wasn't that hard to see that the Texans weren't going to pay that kind of money for that kind of production. Don't even try and change that now.

Both of the Browns cost the Texans their first playoff season, and both had no business playing in games towards the latter part of the season. Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up. Kubiak's worst season of coaching in his history.

As for the rest, I'd probably be wasting my time typing because like always you will always spin Kubiak's failures as long as he is coaching here. You have proven that for years. The next guy will get the same treatment when he coaches here from you as long as he is employed here. But, to act like players on this team weren't coddled in several cases is just funny at this point.

What is the current excuse for Schaub just for chits and giggles?
You are right about my opinion of Mario... And Kubiak/smith got rid of him when it made sense to. Chris brown was cut when it made sense as well. It was a bad signing, but that is not the same as be too loyal.

No excuse for schaub a performance the past couple games, nor was his performance at the end of last year acceptable. I just agree with Kubiak that schaub turning things around is more likely than Yates jumping in and leading this team deep into the playoffs.
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Old 10-11-2013   #102
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Default Re: Accountability

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I thought it was the other guy that was his undoing. What was his name - Pendry? Is that the antiquated friend you are talking about?
That's him. He had been out of coaching for 5 years and was running a bed & breakfast or something when Capers called him. I wanted to shoot Pendry when he stuck Riley in at LT.

I also think being a defensive guru who couldn't build a D hurt him, and now he and Fangio have gone on to have success as DCs.

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Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up.
I can't see the Chris Brown situation as anything other than bad luck and certainly not some sort of atrocious amount of trust. He was only with the Texans 1 year. He was the 3rd RB. The most attempts he had in a game was 11. Slaton, Moats and Foster all had more fumbles per attempt.
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Old 10-11-2013   #103
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Default Re: Accountability

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Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization...
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.
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Old 10-11-2013   #104
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Default Re: Accountability

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Heads will roll if we lose one of these next two.
I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.
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Old 10-11-2013   #105
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Default Re: Accountability

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Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.
Dan Reeves came in & assessed the situation with McNair. We thought he was here to tell McNair if he had a coaching issue, or a talent issue. McNair cleaned house. Chances are Reeves told him those guys weren't conducive to building a strong organization capable of winning Championship.
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Old 10-11-2013   #106
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.
What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think
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Old 10-11-2013   #107
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.
Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year. He has had three bad games in a row... following two comeback wins that he orchestrated.. I assume you are talking about the 4 games in a row with a INT return for TD... breaking Peyton Manning's record of 3, I think.

Are you suggesting the Colts should have benched Manning when he owned that record? Do you honestly think that Schaub will be the QB all year if this continues or that he will be given the starting job next year if he doesn't turn it around?

What should the Giants do about Eli Manning?

By the way, Kubiak dumped Carr after one season with him- Carr's best statistical season. I don't get where you guys come up with these peculiar conclusions.
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Old 10-11-2013   #108
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think
If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.
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Old 10-11-2013   #109
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

Its not is there a drop off. There should always be a drop off between your first and second guy or second and third. However it is the measure of the degree of the drop off impacts the team. Benching Foster isnt the worst thing in the world given Tate's ability to perform better or relatively on par with Foster. Likewise sitting Tate for a fumble and giving Foster more snaps certainly doesnt impact the game much either

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I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

It is exactly the value of the position and the difference between our 1 and 2 RB or our 2 and 3rd is near zero when you compare it to the difference between our 1 and 2 Qb



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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal.


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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?



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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

The point of having a backup QB is a replacement in the case of injury and usually is a signal the season is over.
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Old 10-11-2013   #110
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.
Yes. This is the modern NFL. A teams only real hope is tied to the health and play of its starting QB. For any legitimate shot, we need the QB to play at the level schaub was playing at in 2011 before his injury. I don't think Yates can do that this year... Hopefully, schaub can.
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Old 10-11-2013   #111
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr View Post
What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.
It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.
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Old 10-11-2013   #112
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Default Re: Accountability

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It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.
I think Gary looked at rest of schedule and thought MS can get well physically and mentally against these teams. I sure hope it works. My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?
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Old 10-11-2013   #113
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I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.
The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.
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Old 10-11-2013   #114
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The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.
If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?
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Old 10-11-2013   #115
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Default Re: Accountability

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My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?
I think if he had chose to go with Tj/Case, he would have to be patient with them & not be too quick to yank them. Schaub.. maybe not so patient, but he shouldn't yank him after one INT.

If we go three qtrs without scoring like the SF game & he throws an INT.... I'm all for it. But I think he should have been benched against Seattle. We'd be two weeks removed from where we are right now. Even if his decision was to go back to Schaub for the SF game. He should have been benched at pick 6 in the Seattle game.

If I didn't bench him during the Seattle game I'd have benched him after the first pass play of the SF game.

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Old 10-11-2013   #116
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Default Re: Accountability

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.
Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and they can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.

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Old 10-11-2013   #117
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Default Re: Accountability

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The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.


A super bowl mvp QB down to an 0-6 starter with 15 ints and a fumble is certainly a greater fall and a middle of the pack QB 2-3 starter with 9 ints. Matt certainly has to do less work to get back to the norm
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Old 10-11-2013   #118
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Default Re: Accountability

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Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and the can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.
& if that doesn't happen, what does that mean?

Nothing. When the game is over, & there was no pick 6, you'll be on my side saying the KC Chiefs defense wasn't that great. They look good playing Romo.... they won't look so good when it's all said & done with. I doubt they'll finish top 10.
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Old 10-11-2013   #119
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Default Re: Accountability

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Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal.
You nailed the answer.. was no need to try and outdo yourself..
Past that, I saw stats, incorrect stats at that. From which didn't address the question of what has Matt done?
This is not a comparison of TJ to Schaub Per se, but since you brought it up.. TJ actually has 5 games started(not 7), to which his numbers are very similar to Schaub's last 5 games. I think you'll find one wins by a nose. Disturbing when comparing a rookie's stats to a 10 year veteran.

And, by the way, Matt's 5 game data still remains on par with 7 games prior to that. This isn't a recent epiphany that Schaub is no longer his pre 2011 self.

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Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?
Rings aren't stats.. they are trophies, indicative of greatness. The comparison wasn't to illustrate who's the better bad player right now, but as you well understand it was to lay credence as to why Eli's accomplishments warrant a longer leash so to speak, which tie into accountability. One HAS to account for Eli's trip to disney world. What do we have to accont for Matt? That he once was a top 10 QB in many statistics back in 2011? Great! Let's jump in the ol' time machine and grab that guy! To suggest he's amongst us now is a real stretch. All thing considered, from an accountability stand point, I can only conclude that Yates and Keenum must be REAALY horrible, as the only real tangible truth we've got is right now, if Schaub remains the best option under center, it's going to be a looooong season.
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Old 10-11-2013   #120
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Default Re: Accountability

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If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?


Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.
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