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Old 10-10-2013   #61
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Default Re: Accountability

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He also got extended after a couple of 8-8 and a 9-7 season. What was his rating at that time based on your playoff success criteria? I'd think low since he didn't make the playoffs. He did follow that up with a 6-10 season though. I submit that as an example of no accountability.

It depends on your viewpoint. Long term if you went from 8-8 and 3 seasons later won a playoff game thats fairly good progress I would think. If you continued your 8-8, 9-7 or 7-9 ways maybe that would be a lack of accountability. If one of your employees goes from an average performer and improves most years that is a good job of managing not a lack of accountability

8-8
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Old 10-10-2013   #62
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Default Re: Accountability

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It depends on your viewpoint. Long term if you went from 8-8 and 3 seasons later won a playoff game thats fairly good progress I would think. If you continued your 8-8, 9-7 or 7-9 ways maybe that would be a lack of accountability. If one of your employees goes from an average performer and improves most years that is a good job of managing not a lack of accountability

8-8
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He was extended after seasons of stagnation. The "long term" benefit is seen in hindsight. We will see if his improvement continues, or if he falls back to his norm of 8-9 wins.
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Old 10-10-2013   #63
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Default Re: Accountability

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He was extended after seasons of stagnation. The "long term" benefit is seen in hindsight. We will see if his improvement continues, or if he falls back to his norm of 8-9 wins.
Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times
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Old 10-10-2013   #64
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Default Re: Accountability

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Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times
Yep. He got the 9th best guy (excluding the 6-10 data point because it doesn't support the argument)...which will probably change one way or the other this year.

So far it doesn't look like it is going up.
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Old 10-10-2013   #65
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Default Re: Accountability

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Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times
Bob is making money hand over fist, and changing head coaches is, in his words, a traumatic experience.

Accountability will come when the profit margin reduces to a point that he finds unacceptable. Last time that was after a 2-14 season, so his tolerance is much wider than most fans would like to believe.

I will always be grateful to McNair for the obvious. However, I do not wear blinders that he values championships more than a successful business. Perhaps he believes Kubiak can bring a championship and is willing to give him infinite patience up to the point that it is undermining his successful business. In that case, we basically have a Marvin Lewis doppelganger front office and Kubiak has to fail spectacularly to be released.

Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.
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Old 10-10-2013   #66
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Default Re: Accountability

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Bob is making money hand over fist, and changing head coaches is, in his words, a traumatic experience.

Accountability will come when the profit margin reduces to a point that he finds unacceptable. Last time that was after a 2-14 season, so his tolerance is much wider than most fans would like to believe.

I will always be grateful to McNair for the obvious. However, I do not wear blinders that he values championships more than a successful business. Perhaps he believes Kubiak can bring a championship and is willing to give him infinite patience up to the point that it is undermining his successful business. In that case, we basically have a Marvin Lewis doppelganger front office and Kubiak has to fail spectacularly to be released.

Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.
No. I don't even see Kubiak getting fired after a 7-9 season. We are going to need a dramatic collapse in order to see change here. We seem to be in the beginning stages of that now, so we'll see.
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Old 10-10-2013   #67
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Default Re: Accountability

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Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.
I'm positive he won't & I'm not sure that would be the best course of action.

Since January, they've pretty much put the bulls-eye on Schaub. This is his year, make or break. He'll have to do something to make them believe he can take us where we want to go.
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Old 10-10-2013   #68
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Default Re: Accountability

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But I will agree with your conclusion. If you cherry pick Kubiak's two best years and use the criteria you chose, only 8 coaches (one third of the league, two whole divisions worth) were better than him.
Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league).

There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?
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Old 10-10-2013   #69
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Default Re: Accountability

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There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?
yep. Add Bum Phillips to that list.

So I have to ask Houston fans: Do you really want McNair acting like Bud Adams???
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Old 10-10-2013   #70
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Default Re: Accountability

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Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league).
5 (Ravens, Pats, Falcons, 49ers, Giants) all advanced out of the divisional round over 2011-2012 seasons.

It's still not close to 8.
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Old 10-10-2013   #71
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Default Re: Accountability

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yep. Add Bum Phillips to that list.

So I have to ask Houston fans: Do you really want McNair acting like Bud Adams???
I like Kubiak, my only problem is his loyalty to Schaub. He's handled this thing pretty poorly in regards to assigning blame, assuming the halftime report was correct during the SF game. He is the head coach, so he knows more than we do about his backups, but it's just so difficult to watch Schaub out there right now.
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Old 10-10-2013   #72
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Default Re: Accountability

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Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league).

There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?
I used his 68% number to come up with 8. I'm still not sure he he came up with it.

Anyway, this is about accountability and the lack thereof. I think there was a lack of accountability in years four and five of Kubiak's regime. I certainly don't think Kubiak should have been fired after the playoff seasons. I just don't think two playoff appearances makes him a great coach.

However, in my non-football professional's opinion, we've seen Kubiak's peak with this team. I see this team receding and other teams in the division getting better. We will see how it plays out.
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Old 10-10-2013   #73
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This. Keshawn Martin fumbled and recovered it himself. The next punt return Keo was back there.
Tate is the backup... Keshawn Martin is one of many punt return options...

Replacing a few Tate carries with Arian Foster or pulling Martin for one punt return has nothing in common with replacing the starting QB... nor with benching the only kicker on the team for a couple of kicks... Who would you use? Lechler?... Neither Tate nor Martin lost their roster spot nor depth on the team.
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Old 10-10-2013   #74
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Default Re: Accountability

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I used his 68% number to come up with 8. I'm still not sure he he came up with it.

Anyway, this is about accountability and the lack thereof. I think there was a lack of accountability in years four and five of Kubiak's regime. I certainly don't think Kubiak should have been fired after the playoff seasons. I just don't think two playoff appearances makes him a great coach.

However, in my non-football professional's opinion, we've seen Kubiak's peak with this team. I see this team receding and other teams in the division getting better. We will see how it plays out.



7 other teams made it as far or farther than we did last year and the year before thats where I got 8. What Cak pointed out is that only 4 teams each season made it farther than us
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Old 10-10-2013   #75
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Default Re: Accountability

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I like Kubiak, my only problem is his loyalty to Schaub.
I'm upset that Schaub hasn't been benched for his performance on the field. Being that we weren't trying to win last Sunday when Tj came in, I look at that more as giving up, than benching Schaub.

That said, If we started this year thinking we were going to the Super Bowl with Matt Schaub, it doesn't make a lot of sense to want to give up on him so "quickly." I know a three game losing streak isn't "quickly" & 4 consecutive games throwing a pick 6 isn't quickly. I get wanting to bench him to see if that gets his head into the game, but ready to move on doesn't seem rational.

Then everyone wanting to leapfrog Tj & go straight to Case makes me believe this is deeper than objective analysis of Schaub's play. He threw 6 bad balls that I can think of. The three INTs, the one Eric Reed should have picked, one he missed Andre wide open on our second drive, just before the OD holding penalty, & another he missed a wide open Andre (can't remember the specifics).

Other than that he looked pretty accurate, ball had plenty of spin, plenty of zip. I can't really tell how he did on his reads. He was active outside the pocket... looked pretty confident.

I've never been overly confident that Schaub would lead us to a Super Bowl. I had little doubt that we could win one with him. I still believe he is a better day-to-day QB than Flacco & Eli & if they can win, Schaub can. (However, I think both QBs have shown themselves to be much, much tougher than Schaub. Where Schaub seems rattled under pressure, those two stand tall.)

If Kubiak decided to move on, I'd have been fine with that. He didn't, I'm fine with that. But like I said before, he better be right.

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He's handled this thing pretty poorly in regards to assigning blame, assuming the halftime report was correct during the SF game.
He's usually pretty good at crafting his coachspeak. I think I understand what he meant, because I think the same, but I couldn't believe he said what he said.
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Old 10-10-2013   #76
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Default Re: Accountability

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A coach going 8-8 may be okay and it may not it certainly depends on many factors. Like the Texans making it to the second round of the playoffs despite the loss of Schaub, Johnson and Williams. On an adjusted basis I would say that was well overperforming. Making it to the second round of the playoffs puts your team's performance besting 68.75% of the league. The level of talent on the team is better ranked by folks who do this for a living rather than fans. Also the expectations and how things run are probably better handled by McNair as a bussiness man vs random fans.
After 8 yrs 68.75% isn't good enough

Lets also talk about Gary's W/L and hiring on the defensive side of the ball before Wade was forced on him by BoB.

Obviously BoB sets his evaluation bar at OK is good enough. If this weren't true he would've fired Gary after the highly acclaimed 9-7 2009 season or the 6-10 2010 season. But really why would BoB ever fire Gary when the stands will always be full of Aggies every Sunday and they are more than willing to give their $$$$ to BoB because 68.75% is good enough for the Aggies to support one of their own. I mean schucks Gary's a good ole boy and that's good enough.

I mean does Gary with his conservative style really suprise you that he has won 68.75% of his games. Gary is a modern day Marty Schottenheimer. (Atcually he's not that good) He's good enough to get you to the dance, but dont expect to be winning a ACF championship game or a SB.

But it isn't good enough for me. Not that that matters at all to BoB.
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Old 10-10-2013   #77
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Default Re: Accountability

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After 8 yrs 68.75% isn't good enough

Lets also talk about Gary's W/L and hiring on the defensive side of the ball before Wade was forced on him by BoB.

Obviously BoB sets his evaluation bar at OK is good enough. If this weren't true he would've fired Gary after the highly acclaimed 9-7 2009 season or the 6-10 2010 season. But really why would BoB ever fire Gary when the stands will always be full of Aggies every Sunday and they are more than willing to give their $$$$ to BoB because 68.75% is good enough for the Aggies to support one of their own. I mean schucks Gary's a good ole boy and that's good enough.

I mean does Gary with his conservative style really suprise you that he has won 68.75% of his games. Gary is a modern day Marty Schottenheimer. (Atcually he's not that good) He's good enough to get you to the dance, but dont expect to be winning a ACF championship game or a SB.

But it isn't good enough for me. Not that that matters at all to BoB.

So after 6 years with the texans Gary should be a top 4 performer every year ?
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Old 10-10-2013   #78
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So after 6 years with the texans Gary should be a top 4 performer every year ?
It really all depends how you want to look at it. Are two playoff appearances in 7 years - 29% - good enough?

Is 2 more for his next 7 years good enough? If not, why not?

Yes he has had one good and one very good year. That has earned him some time, but I don't see a consistently high performing team. If this fall continues this season and next and he misses the playoffs, do they extend him again because he went to the playoffs twice in a row?
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Old 10-10-2013   #79
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Default Re: Accountability

Accountability?

On this team?

with THIS coach?


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Old 10-10-2013   #80
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Default Re: Accountability

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It really all depends how you want to look at it. Are two playoff appearances in 7 years - 29% - good enough?

Is 2 more for his next 7 years good enough? If not, why not?

Yes he has had one good and one very good year. That has earned him some time, but I don't see a consistently high performing team. If this fall continues this season and next and he misses the playoffs, do they extend him again because he went to the playoffs twice in a row?


Your current problem is his good and very good years are the last two and now we question accountability
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