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Old 10-08-2013   #21
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
I believe gary uses keenum differently. running on 4th and 1 and going for the long balls during pre-season. case has answered too.
I agree with this, but I am a homer.

The problem isn't that Kubiak won't or can't come up with a different game plan.

The problem is Kubiak is refusing to cut the cord to the anchor that is Matt Schaub. Classic Kubiak fashion i.e. Kris Brown, any defensive coordinator before Wade, and Marciano(sp).
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Old 10-08-2013   #22
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Default Re: In support of Case...

The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
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Old 10-08-2013   #23
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
Problem is Matt's arm sucks too. May as well take the mobility and see what happens. Hopefully he doesn't throw 4 pick 6's in 4 games.
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Old 10-08-2013   #24
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball.
this is a complete myth. there are many that have witnessed during preseason and practice, including the coach, that keenum's arm strength is fine. among the 3, case has a stronger arm than both tj and schaub.

you want to see a bad arm these days, look at matt. I've never seen such bad velocity and easy reads in my support for MS all these years.
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Old 10-08-2013   #25
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Default Re: In support of Case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.

Absolute bull****.
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Old 10-08-2013   #26
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Default Re: In support of Case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
What you're describing is part of why this offense is "qb friendly"...it doesn't require them to read defenses in the traditional sense...like you see every 1 of the top qb's do. You've seen it with every single qb we've had starting under Kubiak...

They come to the line
glance over the defense to figure out where the ball should go according to the system & what the defense shows them

They jump under center

snap the ball

No calling out the Mike lb....

no real audibling....

This is also why you rarely see Schaub hard counting & he often quick snaps...I mean when you think about it, what good does it do to hard count if you can't change the play?....even if you do see what the defense is really going to do you're pretty much stuck with Kubiak's rigid system.

The problem is defenses have figured out how to manipulate Kubiak's rigidness with his qb's in not allowing them to jump out of bad plays with something to burn the blitzing & trap coverages...So they disguise early and change up late....You see it clearly with Schaub's last 2 pick 6's...the cb's weren't worried at all about their man running deep. They knew Schaub was going there with the ball b/c they told him to go there with their pre snap look.

You say, "well, that's not all that different from how they do every qb" & you're right......it's just that much more effective against us b/c the qb's don't have any real power to audible to something that will make the defense pay severely when you're too agressive at taking the short stuff away.

Couple this with predictable play calling a noodle armed qb, bad o-line play at times & you've got disaster. This is ultimately why you see Schaub throwing short on 3rd and long so much. His pre snap read according to the system has changed after the ball has snapped, he panics & dumps the ball off....

there is no real progression in routes you should go to if your initial look isn't there...

Another thing is...Kubiak doesn't really beat defenses with formationing...like you often see manning do...where are all the bunch sets? Why not put Tate & Foster on the field at the same time? He at least did that a few times this last game.

This is why i'm not all that optimistic that things will change offensively so much with a qb change....Kubiak & his system is part of the problem too.
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Old 10-08-2013   #27
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Default Re: In support of Case...

Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.
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Old 10-08-2013   #28
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.
Problem is they are already trolling the fan base keeping poopy pants due to $hitting himself at QB.
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Old 10-08-2013   #29
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Absolute bull****.
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
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Old 10-08-2013   #30
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.
Disagree. remember that qb draw Yates did at Cincy? Kubiak would never call that with Schaub, but i bet we would see it a few times with Keenum. Plus those bootlegs would start working again with a mobile qb. Case actually has a little speed on him.
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Old 10-08-2013   #31
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
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Old 10-08-2013   #32
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
I looked at some of his highlights.

There were some balls underthrown and others on the money. I won't say he has a noodle arm but it's certainly average. Better than floppy MS at this point, though. His ball placement on the other hand is excellent. He has just enough arm to get it there.
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Old 10-08-2013   #33
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
Here are some notes from the UH Pro Day:

http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2...stons-pro-day/

Quote:
Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

“I strained my hamstring on the second 40,” Keenum said on Monday after his performance at UH’s pro day. “I’m not a track guy or 400-hurdler or haven’t qualified for the Olympics but I think I was trying to at that point, trying to run a 4.3. But strained my hamstring on the second 40 and it kind of put me in a funk. I went over to see the trainers and (quarterbacks) were already warming up throwing. I’m not going to make excuses and I didn’t that day. I said ‘I”m out here, I’m going to throw.’ But it definitely wasn’t me at my best.”

There were some reports questioning Keenum’s arm strength after his combine performance and he said it was important to show his true ability on Monday for scouts.

“It was very important for me to show these guys that (at the combine), that was not me,” Keenum said. “I have very high standards for myself and I believe in my abilities tremendously and I think I wasn’t at my best. I wanted to go out there and compete. That’s what I do. That’s where you can get into the whole touchy situation of ‘Do you throw or not throw.’ But my whole mindset has been, ‘I am who I am, so let’s do it, let’s roll.’”

On Monday, he didn’t show any issues throwing. He threw the ball with good velocity, particularly on the out routes, and he showed the ability to get it downfield. I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum had “above average” arm strength.

Keenum’s assessment of his day:

“We were a little off on a few routes and not quite as accurate as I’d like to be,” he said. “As far as pushing the ball down the field, I thought the ball was coming out of my hands fairly well….I thought we got a few good throws in there. Not my best day, but I’m a perfectionist and I always feel like I can do better.”

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.
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Old 10-08-2013   #34
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Default Re: In support of Case...

I'm on the Keenum bandwagon.

Keenum

Keenum

Keenum!
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Old 10-08-2013   #35
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
when i think of a big arm, i think about those 10 yard curls and coverage beaters in the redzone from x & goal. what pro qb cant hurl it 50 yards? can he deliver the ball without a db jumping all over his throws in the middle of the field. the foootage on youtbe is him going deep with no dbs in sight.. would like to see footage of him droppin back and delivering the football.
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Old 10-08-2013   #36
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Default Re: In support of Case...

don't matter what all the case keenum skeptics think. at this point, we're all curious and unless he has a shot, we won't know.

case is and will always be a winner until proven otherwise.

I'd bet big money Texans win if Case plays this Sunday. And if he played the 49er's, you'd see more than 3 pts. Guaranteed.
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Old 10-08-2013   #37
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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I still remember you saying that case will never start in the pros. gonna be funny when you become one of us. lol
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Old 10-08-2013   #38
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.
Maybe Kubes learned from his buddy Elway about starting a joke QB.

I seriously think Elway started Tebow to

1. Shut the fans up and show them he sucked
2. Tank games to get a QB in the draft
3. Make some easy money for the shoddy product.

Instead Tebow pulled the classic "Springtime for Hitler" and started winning games.
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Old 10-08-2013   #39
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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I still remember you saying that case will never start in the pros. gonna be funny when you become one of us. lol
I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.
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Old 10-08-2013   #40
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Default Re: In support of Case...

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Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.
fair enough if that's your opinion, but I do remember reading that case would never amount to anything in the NFL.

We'll wait and see. Do you want Schaub to start? or TJ then?
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