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Old 10-04-2013   #101
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Asking if we should acquire Freeman is one of the dumbest things that anyone could ask? Oh yeah, lets talk about going after a guy that has been terrible on his last team and just got benched and has looked awful this season. Yeah, get rid of one problematic QB for a different type of problematic QB.

Good god, Alex Smith, Freeman, man some of you guys act like you started watching football yesterday. Just pathetic.
Don't forget Sanchez. With our running game & defense, AFC Championship game, easy.
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Old 10-04-2013   #102
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

No, it is exactly that easy. If there's a player in the NFL you take that chance on then his name is Peyton Manning. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out but nobody in the world with any understanding of what Manning can do is ever going to fault someone for taking a chance on him.

Ed Reed on the other hand? We're going to hearing about the money he fleeced us out of for years.

It was easy for Denver because John Elway understood the situation in ways that Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith simply cannot grasp.
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Old 10-04-2013   #103
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
No, it is exactly that easy. If there's a player in the NFL you take that chance on then his name is Peyton Manning. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out but nobody in the world with any understanding of what Manning can do is ever going to fault someone for taking a chance on him.

Ed Reed on the other hand? We're going to hearing about the money he fleeced us out of for years.

It was easy for Denver because John Elway understood the situation in ways that Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith simply cannot grasp.
We went on to win 12 games by choosing to stick with Schaub. We made it to the divisional round, then got booted, same as Peyton & Elway.

If we took that gamble & it didn't work out, chances are slim that we'd still have won 12 games. I don't think we'd have kept Matt while Peyton struggled with his neck (if we got Peyton & it didn't work out).

If Ed Reed doesn't work out.... he doesn't work out. Defense is playing "well enough" as it is (he wasn't the one making the boneheaded mistakes that cost us 3 90+ yard TD drives). Ed Reed is like the final piece of the defense. Schaub (Manning) is the cog that makes the offense work.
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Old 10-04-2013   #104
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
No, it is exactly that easy. If there's a player in the NFL you take that chance on then his name is Peyton Manning. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out but nobody in the world with any understanding of what Manning can do is ever going to fault someone for taking a chance on him.

Ed Reed on the other hand? We're going to hearing about the money he fleeced us out of for years.

It was easy for Denver because John Elway understood the situation in ways that Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith simply cannot grasp.
Yeah wait a couple years when Mannings arm finally falls off, they have no championship to show for it and Brock Osweiler is your starting QB
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Old 10-05-2013   #105
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Kubiak and Schaub are this team's liability. Until both are gone the Texans will never win anything of significance. I have been saying this for years now.
Will they leave before the pt at which there is nothing left on the roster to attract a bad ass coach and qb?
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Old 10-05-2013   #106
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Will they leave before the pt at which there is nothing left on the roster to attract a bad ass coach and qb?
Well if there has to be a stacked roster for a coach to come here, I don't want his sorry a$$ anyway.
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Old 10-05-2013   #107
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Well if there has to be a stacked roster for a coach to come here, I don't want his sorry a$$ anyway.
This simply isn't realistic. There's not a coach out there who when given two or more job options isn't going to select the place they believe they have the best chance to succeed, and the reality is that rosters are a pretty big part of that (Starting with QB).
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Old 10-05-2013   #108
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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I agree that both are a liability, but I believe that the bigger difference is made if you rid yourself of Kubiak.

You rid yourself of Schaub, you still have overly conservative, "play not to lose" mentality.

I cant say BOTH need to be gone, as I believe that a HC change would make the world of difference. Just look at the Ravens for example, they took a lot of our "garbage" and made it work.

I believe a good HC could take this team, even someone like Schaub. QBs DO get much worse than Schaub. (Even though I am not for keeping him around, I just don't feel a change at "BOTH" is needed for success.)

I do believe your statement is correct in a timeline perspective however, I don't see Kubiak being removed until some point after Schaub is gone.
Let me get this straight , we get rid of Kubiak and Schaub magically stops throwing picks and curling up in the fetal position .... is he likely to get the lead out of his shoes ?!?


Schaub has arguably the best supporting cast of any QB In the NFL.

#80 HOFer
Hopkins Very solid second receiver - Rookie of the month ?!
OD Pro Bowler.
Graham has been fantastic
Foster top three at his position
Tate 6.7ypc ?!

Not to mention a very good defense.

Name another QB who is afforded so many weapons. This offense is designed specifically to keep him clean and free of defenders so he can make throws.


I have to go the opposite direction when I evaluate all the facts. I think Kubiak has squeezed all he can out of a physically limited Matt Schaub.

Consider that they have been top 8ish in scoring the past three seasons , top 5ish in yardage and number 1 in time of possession in back to back seasons and will likely do it a third consecutive season - all despite Matt Schaub's inadequacies.

You are going to say conservative ? Was throwing the ball on 3rd down conservative ?! Conservative was run the ball and punt if you don't make it.
Im almost positive that a large part of the conservatism is knowing what Schaub is capable of and what he isn't.


I really have to wonder what Kubiak's offense would be capable of with a QB who lacked the shortcomings of Schaub. A bootleg offense with a sloth footed QB ?? Imagine for a moment that QB is able to threaten defenses with his feet instead of just his arm , having the ability to run when defenders have the receivers covered instead of throw it away or run out of bounds.


But hey , the coach has thrown 10 INT's in the last 7 games , 4 of which are returned for TD's .... Yep , that's the problem right there!!
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Old 10-05-2013   #109
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Asking if we should acquire Freeman is one of the dumbest things that anyone could ask? Oh yeah, lets talk about going after a guy that has been terrible on his last team and just got benched and has looked awful this season. Yeah, get rid of one problematic QB for a different type of problematic QB.

Good god, Alex Smith, Freeman, man some of you guys act like you started watching football yesterday. Just pathetic.
You must not have seen Josh Freeman play in 2010 or even in 2012 last year. He was pretty damn good. There's a reason why he's been a successful starting quarterback in the NFL. Then again, Matt Schaub was really good at one time in his younger days.

The point being we need to find a younger quarterback sooner or later. Is Yates or Keenum the answer? To me neither is a starter. They're both career backups. I also wouldn't discount Alex Smith either. He has his team with a better record than ours right now. Doing it with limited turnovers and isn't making the same boneheaded mistakes that Schaub is.

And mind you, the Chiefs have nowhere near the talent level that the Texans have as a team. And yet they are a perfect 4-0 because Alex Smith is a smart decision maker. You don't need an elite quarterback to win games. We went 12-4 last season with Schaub. But can we win a Super Bowl with Schaub? I just don't know. We'll see. Joe Flacco won the Super Bowl last year so anything is possible.
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Old 10-05-2013   #110
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Let me get this straight , we get rid of Kubiak and Schaub magically stops throwing picks and curling up in the fetal position .... is he likely to get the lead out of his shoes ?!?


Schaub has arguably the best supporting cast of any QB In the NFL.

#80 HOFer
Hopkins Very solid second receiver - Rookie of the month ?!
OD Pro Bowler.
Graham has been fantastic
Foster top three at his position
Tate 6.7ypc ?!

Not to mention a very good defense.

Name another QB who is afforded so many weapons. This offense is designed specifically to keep him clean and free of defenders so he can make throws.


I have to go the opposite direction when I evaluate all the facts. I think Kubiak has squeezed all he can out of a physically limited Matt Schaub.

Consider that they have been top 8ish in scoring the past three seasons , top 5ish in yardage and number 1 in time of possession in back to back seasons and will likely do it a third consecutive season - all despite Matt Schaub's inadequacies.

You are going to say conservative ? Was throwing the ball on 3rd down conservative ?! Conservative was run the ball and punt if you don't make it.
Im almost positive that a large part of the conservatism is knowing what Schaub is capable of and what he isn't.


I really have to wonder what Kubiak's offense would be capable of with a QB who lacked the shortcomings of Schaub. A bootleg offense with a sloth footed QB ?? Imagine for a moment that QB is able to threaten defenses with his feet instead of just his arm , having the ability to run when defenders have the receivers covered instead of throw it away or run out of bounds.


But hey , the coach has thrown 10 INT's in the last 7 games , 4 of which are returned for TD's .... Yep , that's the problem right there!!
Manning easily has better weapons then anyone in the league.

He had two great WR's from last season that both got double digit TD's that are tall and very athletic and he added a guy who is arguably the best slot WR of all time. He also has a really good TE in Julius Thomas. His RB's aren't great, but they get the job done.

Manning's receiving core is ridiculous.
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Old 10-05-2013   #111
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade View Post
You must not have seen Josh Freeman play in 2010 or even in 2012 last year. He was pretty damn good. There's a reason why he's been a successful starting quarterback in the NFL. Then again, Matt Schaub was really good at one time in his younger days.

The point being we need to find a younger quarterback sooner or later. Is Yates or Keenum the answer? To me neither is a starter. They're both career backups. I also wouldn't discount Alex Smith either. He has his team with a better record than ours right now. Doing it with limited turnovers and isn't making the same boneheaded mistakes that Schaub is.

And mind you, the Chiefs have nowhere near the talent level that the Texans have as a team. And yet they are a perfect 4-0 because Alex Smith is a smart decision maker. You don't need an elite quarterback to win games. We went 12-4 last season with Schaub. But can we win a Super Bowl with Schaub? I just don't know. We'll see. Joe Flacco won the Super Bowl last year so anything is possible.
I know exactly what he did that season and he looked like a very good up and comer, but that was THREE YEARS AGO, and he has progressed more and more each season to the point that his current team just wanted him gone. He's been a total bust at this point. His name shouldn't even be remotely thought of to replace Schaub. Not to mention his own team voted him out of being a freaking captain.
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Old 10-05-2013   #112
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Manning easily has better weapons then anyone in the league.

He had two great WR's from last season that both got double digit TD's that are tall and very athletic and he added a guy who is arguably the best slot WR of all time. He also has a really good TE in Julius Thomas. His RB's aren't great, but they get the job done.

Manning's receiving core is ridiculous.
Arguable when you compare RB's , TE's and WR's which group is better.


Regardless which is better , Schaub has more than enough to succeed with which was my point.
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Old 10-05-2013   #113
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Arguable when you compare RB's , TE's and WR's which group is better.


Regardless which is better , Schaub has more than enough to succeed with which was my point.
Definitely agree with you there as your main point. I think Brady who is a non mobile QB could carve teams apart with the Texans skill players. Manning as well. Schaub is just lacking in to many categories these days. I think that Keenum could put up some nice numbers with this collective group.
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Old 10-05-2013   #114
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

Schaub needs a very good OL to be effective, he can have all the skill positions in the world, but when things break down up front Schaub has a hard time making a play.
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Old 10-06-2013   #115
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Before everything went South, when we were in control of the Seahawk game, I was thinking.... y'know, if Schaub keeps this up, we're going to spank Seattle & everyone's going to say Schaub had a "good" game. That he played fine.

It's very subtle, when he's playing well, in rhythm, in control. Like Mario Williams or Arian Foster, he makes it look effortless.
That's because the scheme is designed to make life easier on the QB. It doesn't require a QB to make huge plays by themselves.
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Old 10-06-2013   #116
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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That's because the scheme is designed to make life easier on the QB. It doesn't require a QB to make huge plays by themselves.
OK this discounting the QB because of the system thing is being overblown severely. #1 if the system was so fantastic and easy for QBs any schlub could do it then the whole league would be running it and QB salaries would be way down. #2 the system is famous due to the play of three hall of fame QBs.* In contrast to the reputation of making any RB look good, there is no such reputation about QBs.

* Those three QBs played for 47 seasons to get 7 SB wins. The years they won those teams were stacked.
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Old 10-06-2013   #117
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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OK this discounting the QB because of the system thing is being overblown severely. #1 if the system was so fantastic and easy for QBs any schlub could do it then the whole league would be running it and QB salaries would be way down. #2 the system is famous due to the play of three hall of fame QBs.* In contrast to the reputation of making any RB look good, there is no such reputation about QBs.

* Those three QBs played for 47 seasons to get 7 SB wins. The years they won those teams were stacked.
The point is that the scheme is based on a very strong running game/scheme, which makes the passing game mostly PA driven. This does make things easier on the QB automatically. This isn't Green Bay where there is little run game to rely upon. It isn't a Peytonesque scheme that requires a large amount of checking and changing at the LOS. The run action alone is what dictates how the defense plays against the offense and the QB simply needs to pick up the pieces. The QB is asked to run a clock management oriented game plan and make the proper reads and throws when the time comes. The QB isn't being asked to go out and win each game on the strength of their arm or legs alone. He isn't asked to run an up tempo offense and to get his team lined up and running on all cylinders on every drive at max tempo. The scheme is much easier than what a lot of teams are asking of their QB, especially with the implementation of zone reads and designed QB runs nowadays.

So yes, this scheme is not as intensive on a QB than others within the league right now.
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Old 10-06-2013   #118
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

In the era of the Niners 5 SB wins the passing O ranked higher than the rushing O in 11 of 14 seasons including 4 of the 5 SB seasons.

These were teams who were not playing from behind generally so minimal padded stats. They had 1 losing season (the strike shortened season) the entire time and otherwise won 10 or more games every season.
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Old 10-06-2013   #119
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
That's because the scheme is designed to make life easier on the QB. It doesn't require a QB to make huge plays by themselves.
Does it really make a difference? Like Corrosion was saying, if Schaub can get back to protecting the ball, we win, we win a lot, & we have a really good shot to win the Super Bowl..... which is the ultimate goal. Isn't it?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The point is that the scheme is based on a very strong running game/scheme, which makes the passing game mostly PA driven. This does make things easier on the QB automatically. This isn't Green Bay where there is little run game to rely upon. It isn't a Peytonesque scheme that requires a large amount of checking and changing at the LOS. The run action alone is what dictates how the defense plays against the offense and the QB simply needs to pick up the pieces. The QB is asked to run a clock management oriented game plan and make the proper reads and throws when the time comes. The QB isn't being asked to go out and win each game on the strength of their arm or legs alone. He isn't asked to run an up tempo offense and to get his team lined up and running on all cylinders on every drive at max tempo. The scheme is much easier than what a lot of teams are asking of their QB, especially with the implementation of zone reads and designed QB runs nowadays.

So yes, this scheme is not as intensive on a QB than others within the league right now.
First... it's not the "system" that is "clock management" blah, blah, blah.... This is the same system used in Denver & San Francisco before..... the same system Shanahan is using (or trying to) in Washington, tailored to the QB. In our system, the QB led the league in passing not too long ago & was voted to two Pro Bowls.

I also believe Kubiak, every team in the league wants to be balanced. New England's system isn't to chunk the ball 60 times a game, neither is Greenbay's. Both teams thought they had a running back & it hasn't worked out so well, yet. When they get to the Baltimore's & the SanFrancisco's & the Seahawks of the league, not being able to run the ball is going to bite them in the rear.

The point you're making though, making clutch plays at clutch moments, has been Schaub's weakness for a long, long time & has nothing to do with the system.
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Old 10-06-2013   #120
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Default Re: Ok here it comes....Do the Texans look at aquiring Josh Freeman?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Does it really make a difference? Like Corrosion was saying, if Schaub can get back to protecting the ball, we win, we win a lot, & we have a really good shot to win the Super Bowl..... which is the ultimate goal. Isn't it?



First... it's not the "system" that is "clock management" blah, blah, blah.... This is the same system used in Denver & San Francisco before..... the same system Shanahan is using (or trying to) in Washington, tailored to the QB. In our system, the QB led the league in passing not too long ago & was voted to two Pro Bowls.

I also believe Kubiak, every team in the league wants to be balanced. New England's system isn't to chunk the ball 60 times a game, neither is Greenbay's. Both teams thought they had a running back & it hasn't worked out so well, yet. When they get to the Baltimore's & the SanFrancisco's & the Seahawks of the league, not being able to run the ball is going to bite them in the rear.

The point you're making though, making clutch plays at clutch moments, has been Schaub's weakness for a long, long time & has nothing to do with the system.
Schaub's biggest weakness, imho, is the inability to deal with a decent pass rush. He gets happy feet and starts panicking and making bad decisions.

He gets worms in his brains like a golfer facing a shot over water saying to himself "don't hit it in the water" a hundred times before he swings and hits it right in the water. A lack of confidence is what causes that to happen a lot of times. Schaub appears to lack confidence in the face of a decent pass rush. He has none in the face of a good one. All QB's play worse in the face of a great one.
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