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Old 10-01-2013   #121
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

I believe I said I'm not making excuses for Schaub, and I don't think he is our long term option. I am however pointing out that does the problem go further than just Schaub?

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Originally Posted by Come On Breh View Post
have you read sherman's quotes about the play? that should give you your answer.
Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
First the ball should have never been thrown or if thrown is should have been yards short of both players. Second was it OD who was the target of a previous pick 6 where it appeared as though he gave up? I think it was a TE just cant remember if it was OD
You are correct the ball should have never been thrown, and that is on Kubiak and Schaub. But in fact it was thrown and regardless of whose fault that was, there was a live ball in the air and OD was out fought for it. Sherman it seemed wanted the ball more than our player. That is a problem.

No different than when a RB fumbles... you don't expect the other guys on the team to dive for the ball, because it wasn't their fault?

I'm just saying if the end result of the play was different, and OD out fights Sherman for the ball spins and runs for 10 yards, are we then on here praising the miraculous play that Schaub and OD pulled off?

Sometimes you make your own luck, I see passes thrown every week that should never have been thrown and a down right amazing catch by the receiver is needed.

I would love a more mobile QB and would like to see what either Yates or Keenum can do. But all the players need to play like it is 4th and goal with 2 seconds remaining in the Super Bowl, which is give everything they have, no mistakes, get the job done.
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Old 10-01-2013   #122
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.
This is not surprising because Kubiak always tends to run playaction and bootlegs on 3rd & short. He thinks he's a genius because he's breaking tendency from what most teams do. What he doesn't understand is that defenses have figured out his tendencies and they know he's going to throw the ball on 3rd & short. He always does. He's not tricking anyone anymore except for himself.
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Old 10-01-2013   #123
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
This is not surprising because Kubiak always tends to run playaction and bootlegs on 3rd & short. He thinks he's a genius because he's breaking tendency from what most teams do. What he doesn't understand is that defenses have figured out his tendencies and they know he's going to throw the ball on 3rd & short. He always does. He's not tricking anyone anymore except for himself.
I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.
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Old 10-01-2013   #124
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.
There are a lot of misconceptions out there.
There's no real tendency in the Texans' offensive play call.
I do not keep continuous records of what they do; I have a lot of notes scattered throughout the six or seven hard drives that I have; I never had the chance to tie them up together.

All I can say is that there has been no significant bad tendencies in what the Texans have been doing offensively under Kubiak.

Yes, there are a few things that they do more often in certain situations, downs and distances, but they have been successful at those, I don't see a need to change in those instances.

The bottom line is that Schaub needs to play better; moreover, he needs to minimize crucial mistakes.
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Old 10-01-2013   #125
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would say his tendency to throw on 3rd & short is much higher than any non-spread passing team (Saints, Pats, etc.).

And if you're going to pass on that down then yes, you want to run playaction. The problem is it's 3rd & 2 and you're throwing the ball. He always does this. We're averaging 4 yards per carry on the day and he's throwing the ball on 3rd & 2.......
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Old 10-01-2013   #126
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
It was, as characterized by both Kubiak and Tim Hasselbeck, a very, very poor play call & formation.

The best outcome was taking a sack. Matt should have tucked & ducked.
I'm just going to piggy back on your post, even though it doesn't have much to do with the gist of what I like to say.

There's never anything wrong about formation.
As an offense, I would think that you can line up in any formation of your choosing; ie. as an offense, you're supposed to dictate the play.

But you (I mean the offense) also wants to be able to counter the D call.
Out of the same formation (even before motion, if there's any), an offense can run several different plays.
From studying playbooks of various teams, I would call them a series of plays from the same formation (however, coaches often refer to this as a play, let's say 18-19 Strong).
What I'm referring to here, if I may bring up a loss to the Jags a few years ago.
The report was that the Jags beat us with only five or six plays; it should be termed as five or six "series" of plays.

At any rate, I think I'm not doing a very good job to convey my thoughts here.
It's probably best for me to get back to the main points.

On that particular interception, the Texans were in 21 personnel (offset I, TE strong left (Graham), slot right, TE flex wide right (OD).
Then, they motioned the flex TE OD to the slot.

The Seahawks showed zone all the way (it should become clearer later).

When Schaub walks to the LOS, the call was a bootleg weak side (to the right).
However, Schaub had the choice to check into a run play (whether strong side left, or weak side right). This is the "built-in" audible.

IMO, Schaub should have checked into a run strong side left where the Texans had advantage in blocking in the zone scheme.
That's the best percentage play on third and 4, whether it works out or not.
You have an extra blocker, you should be able to gain four.

The Seahawks bought that, too.
The LBs were playing the run hard on the run blitz.

Regardless, it was Schaub's decision there at the line.
He felt like the Hawks would bite the run fake (and they did), so he took it upon himself.
It would have worked if Schaub is a little smarter or can be a little more mobile on his throw.

If he was quick wit and having a greater vision, he could have floated the ball to Graham who was wide open in the money on a slant. Graham was running into empty space in a zone that had the LBs committed to the run blitz.
That was Schaub's easiest read and throw.

As a QB, you expect the blitz to come on the right side; you watch the ILB, if he bought the fake (which he did), throw the damn ball to the crossing TE (Graham).

Or Schaub could have juts thrown the ball to the inside of OD, with the CB to the outside. Schaub threw the ball to the defender instead.

I do not want that type of QBacking on my team.
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Old 10-01-2013   #127
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?
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Old 10-01-2013   #128
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post

Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.
Exactly. Anyone harping on Kubiak being more predictable than any other coach is just hating. We shut the Seahawks down for 3 qtrs of the game. Part of that is that we're just that much better than them. Some of it is that they were missing three OL starters, & still credit goes to our coaches being able to break down their tendencies.

Kubiak & Schaub were able to put Four Hundred & Seventy some odd yards on the #1 defense in the league, knocking them out of the top 5 because they "knew" what the defense was trying to do & when.

Screwed the pooch on that particular play.... but that's what tape is all about, that's why they "study" that's why they break down film.
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Old 10-01-2013   #129
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Hell, the Seahawks didn't run many successful plays on offense the entire game. It was Wilson scrambling around after the play failed.

THAT team would be dangerous as hell running the flawed Kubiak offense.
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Old 10-01-2013   #130
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Wonder how many plays Manning cant check out of LOL not saying Schaub is smart enough to call a play to exploit the defense if he sees something like manning, but we will never know.
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Old 10-01-2013   #131
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?
This. Kubes ain't the problem. It's not 100% Schaub either, but most of it is. A more competent executor of the plan Kubes draws up would go a long way towards helping us get to where we want to be.
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Old 10-01-2013   #132
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?
We actually played football for the first half. Then we remembered this is Gary Kubiak Texan Football and we scored a big whopping 0 points in the 2nd half. We have been 4-6 since we got the chance to take HFA last year. We scored 0 points against the Patriots in the 3rd quarter when our defense made the game winnable. Zero TD's against the Ravens. I'm seeing a trend and I don't know about you, but that does not pass the eye test.
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Old 10-01-2013   #133
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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...just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?
This is what's getting me. Schaub & Andre owned Richard Sherman... damn near all day.

One play. One play....

I think it was an amazing play

But one play & he's the best CB in the game...... blah!!
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Old 10-01-2013   #134
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Old 10-01-2013   #135
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

what's not being talked about is that, as sherman said, that's a play we like to run. shouldn't schaub have a better understanding of the play and the situation? the high point with schaub is supposed to be his grasp of the playbook and timing, shouldn't he have recognized that it was flawed at the snap? it's a play we like because it's a play that works. obviously we should've run the ball that time, but as kubiak said "we wanted to stay aggressive" and of course you want to do that with one of your better plays.

i dont hate the playcall. i dont particularly like it, but had we gotten stuffed half of the fans would be saying "typical kubiak going into turtle mode".

it reminds me a lot of rosencopter. similarly i thought that was a great playcall that the quarterback fubar'd. had sage any sense he would've eaten the ball or thrown it away, and played the situation as a competent quarterback should. same as schaub, eat it or throw it away as any competent quarterback should.
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Old 10-01-2013   #136
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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This is what's getting me. Schaub & Andre owned Richard Sherman... damn near all day.

One play. One play....

I think it was an amazing play

But one play & he's the best CB in the game...... blah!!
Have you seen how long the ball is in the air when Schaub throws? Is there some kind of measurement of air time x yards thrown because Schaub has got to be KING of that. That was one of the worst throws he's ever made. Thrown into the Bermuda Triangle of 3 defenders just waiting. It took effort for Sherman to rip it away, but it was practically thrown up for grabs.
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Old 10-01-2013   #137
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?
Thank you for pointing this out. Kubiak's system is highly effective, and is flawed no worse than any other system in the league. And Kubiak's playcalling isn't even much worse than any other coach's. The stats speak to that. Also, the elimination of the audible shifts responsibility to the receivers, who then provide the quarterback with alternatives to the original play call. That's why this system demands so much commitment from the receivers, and why the audibling is "built in" as Chris Myers described it.

Every coach calls plays that get predicted and busted in every game. The solution is fielding players who can make something out of nothing. That is what this system currently needs at the QB position to complement it. When an intuitive and quick QB can avoid negative yards, thus keeping this WCO on schedule, it can dominate and win championships.
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Old 10-01-2013   #138
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

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Old 10-01-2013   #139
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

As ObsiWan just informed me, people keep forgetting this part:

Quote:
Myers: “I’m not going to explain how we handle audibling at the line, but nice try there. That’s the way it works in the NFL. Some teams and some quarterbacks are given that opportunity because there teams offenses are based upon them going to the line and having six different plays possible then they just give the line and the rest of offense what they are going to do. In our scheme, Matt doesn’t necessarily have to do that all the time. You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys don’t notice it. It’s one of the things that come with the territory. It’s a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Matt’s been able to run. We don’t have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles aren’t the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do. Everyone talking about how they need to put more pressure on Matt and how he needs to take on more of the offense. It’s there, you guys just don’t notice.”

Schaub: “If I explain what we do too much, then other teams are understanding it too. We’re glad that no one out there really knows what we’re doing. We do have a built-in system but it’s something that we do at the line of scrimmage that is not as dramatic as some teams do. We do it about 30 percent of the game. We have two or maybe three plays at the line of scrimmage and then we go from there. It’s all based on what the defense is doing. Sometimes it’s run to run, run to pass, it can be any one of those things, but it’s all predicated on the defense.”
I just posted this two pages ago, yet the conversation is continuing under the assumption that traditional audibling is superior because it unlocks a more versitile passing offense. I contend that this system makes the Texans a better road team since it reduces the impact of crowd noise.
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Old 10-01-2013   #140
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Default Re: Kubiak: Schaub couldn’t audible out of “very, very poor play”

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would say his tendency to throw on 3rd & short is much higher than any non-spread passing team (Saints, Pats, etc.).

And if you're going to pass on that down then yes, you want to run playaction. The problem is it's 3rd & 2 and you're throwing the ball. He always does this. We're averaging 4 yards per carry on the day and he's throwing the ball on 3rd & 2.......
It was 3rd and 4 not 3rd and 2.

The closest split is 3rd and 3-7. As a % of their passes:

Schaub 11.4%
Brady 10.2%
Brees 12.5%
Flacco 11.5%
Rodgers 12.3%
Manning 13.2%

Not seeing the Texans as an outlier.
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