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Old 09-26-2013   #121
Carr Bombed
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Great quotes for a Leadership course.....said no one ever
Oh, you mean like when the offense fails and J.J. Watt yells at his defensive teammates and says.. "Put it on the D, we can handle it!" And I'm sure that's not all he says while he sits on the sideline and watches his offense lay a egg

Stop being so naive. Do you really think that the Colts teams who were carried by Peyton and the offense just sat there and watched their midget defensive squad get cut through like butter year after year and watched them give up 375 rushing yards to the likes of the Jags and had no negative comments about their counterparts? Or the Bucs and Rob Johnson's offense.. Ravens with Anthony Wright, Jeff Blake and Kyle Boller (your words) or even at times with Trent Dilfer.. Or "gasp" The Texans a few years back when the offense had to carry defenses that couldn't even stop a sloth from getting behind their defense and scoring against their secondary.

What Cushing said happens on every freaking sideline of a team that has one side of the ball carrying the water for the whole team (especially when your special teams suck) and I don't really care what the heck the "redzone %" is.. Fact is since Wade and Cushing/Watt got here, more often than not Kubiak and his offense have become accustomed to rely on them and they're the ones left carrying the water more often than not and have been this year.

Only difference is Cushing got caught on tape saying what he said. It doesn't make him a "bad leader" or a "bad teammate" (by that sentiment Peyton and Brady are horrible leaders/teammates.. hell they have cussed out their own offensive players).. BTW he was voted a captain by his own teammates right? All it means is he's human and he has emotion and sees the same damn thing we've all been commenting about on here. I'm glad he said what he said, it tells me he's not contempt with the way we're playing and is a competitor who wants to win.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 09-27-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-27-2013   #122
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

I dunno, guys, I think Cushing & Watt should be traded for sayin' stuff like that.
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Old 09-27-2013   #123
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
You're right, I mean it's not like he's made the biggest play so far or anything.. or is a main reason why this team has a winning record right now.. and we all know he's completely responsible for the entire output of the entire defense. Cushing can say whatever the hell he wants right now, especially when he's speaking the truth.
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Great quotes for a Leadership course.....said no one ever
Because you've personally made a big play (maybe the biggest play) doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, especially if it's a detriment to the team.

Leadership is about removing self and doing what's needed for the team. I do believe Cushing's words weren't him insulting the offense, just saying that it was going to be on the defense this game. That's a leadership role, to say, "You can't do it? It's okay, I'll take care of it".

All the people in this thread saying that Cushing should ****-slap Schaub as if that somehow is good for the team and it shows leadership and balls? Probably shouldn't be a leader on a team...ever.
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Old 09-27-2013   #124
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

Manipulate it however you want to...justify it however you want to...

Fact still remains that he said it about the offense but the real failing has been on the defense.
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Old 09-27-2013   #125
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Manipulate it however you want to...justify it however you want to...

Fact still remains that he said it about the offense but the real failing has been on the defense.
Translation..

"I can't refute anything you just said and I don't know the difference between a fact and a opinion".

OK Bud, whatever you say.
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Old 09-27-2013   #126
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Manipulate it however you want to...justify it however you want to...

Fact still remains that he said it about the offense but the real failing has been on the defense.
Wow, talk about delusional. Schaub has thrown a pick in every game since Cincy of last year.
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Old 09-27-2013   #127
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Manipulate it however you want to...justify it however you want to...

Fact still remains that he said it about the offense but the real failing has been on the defense.
That's just not true...the defense could have been better but it has not failed, not even close.

I'll repeat what I said- the defense has basically given up 17 points a game (not counting the first SD touchdown or the half-ending FG vs Tenn- both of which the offense was responsible for)...that's not Ravens 2000-esque but still good...the offense and special teams have given up 10 points a game...that's horrible.

Could the defense improve some? Yes. However, to say they have failed is ridiculous.
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Old 09-27-2013   #128
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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That's just not true...the defense could have been better but it has not failed, not even close.

I'll repeat what I said- the defense has basically given up 17 points a game (not counting the first SD touchdown or the half-ending FG vs Tenn- both of which the offense was responsible for)...that's not Ravens 2000-esque but still good...the offense and special teams have given up 10 points a game...that's horrible.

Could the defense improve some? Yes. However, to say they have failed is ridiculous.
We expect the defense to play a full half, not just the first half. They gave up 13 points in the second half.

Think about the Chargers game. They gave up 21 points in the first half. They came out the second half & only allowed 7. That's part of the reason why we won the game. The offense had to do their part & score 24 in the second half.

We needed them to do the same thing against the Ravens. Their poor play (lots of penalties, off sides, Pass interference, poor 3rd down percentage, poor performance in the red zone) was overshadowed by the offenses ineptitude, but they did not play well enough to win in the second half.

The offense would have had to score 22 in the second half alone to win that game.
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Old 09-27-2013   #129
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
Because you've personally made a big play (maybe the biggest play) doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, especially if it's a detriment to the team.

Leadership is about removing self and doing what's needed for the team. I do believe Cushing's words weren't him insulting the offense, just saying that it was going to be on the defense this game. That's a leadership role, to say, "You can't do it? It's okay, I'll take care of it".

All the people in this thread saying that Cushing should ****-slap Schaub as if that somehow is good for the team and it shows leadership and balls? Probably shouldn't be a leader on a team...ever.
Certain environments/personalities call for different types of leadership.

Some guys respond better to a kick in the ass while others may not. I thin the real silliness is trying to determine who is and who isn't a good leads from afar based on actions alone.

Results are what matters when you're looked at as a leader. Are you getting the desired results from whatever leadership style you're using. If you aren't, that's when you should reassess your style. If he is getting other guys to fully focus and give maximum effort then he's a good leader. Doesn't make him a great human, but his leadership can't be questioned if he's getting guys to play better.
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Old 09-27-2013   #130
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by tedr View Post
That's just not true...the defense could have been better but it has not failed, not even close.

I'll repeat what I said- the defense has basically given up 17 points a game (not counting the first SD touchdown or the half-ending FG vs Tenn- both of which the offense was responsible for)...that's not Ravens 2000-esque but still good...the offense and special teams have given up 10 points a game...that's horrible.

Could the defense improve some? Yes. However, to say they have failed is ridiculous.
See, this is what i hate.... get out of here with these made up ESPN stats trying to skew stuff....

1st of all, the only points the offense is truly responsible for are the Schaub pick 6's. & one of those games he and the offense made up for it. The SD pick he had was 1st of all a great play by the SD defender & 2nd, still on the defense. The defense gets paid to stop an offense...........regardless of where that offense is on the field.....they didnt do it...SD scored a TD....so its on the defense...period. Furthermore, if the defense was as good as you guys are trying to make them out to be & that is our identity & strongest part of our team, they would've at least been able to hold them to 3 there.

I don't have a problem with anyone bashing this offense...they've sputtered too often to be relied upon to show up week in/out....& we can speculate all day on what the chief reasons for that are.......What i absolutely disagree with is how you guys continuously use qualifiers when talking about this defense in an effort to cast it in the best light relative to the offense....but don't do the same when it comes to the offense....Like the offense, the defense too these 1st 3 games has sputtered a bit too often when we've need them to bow their necks...Unlike the defense however, they went into the last game without its pro bowl LT...a trash RT a banged up RG and played 1/2 that game without it's #1 WR option. So truthfully, neither side has played up to its talent level..Despite what your homemade stats might suggest about the defense's performance.

The other thing is, we've continously heard from those critical of the offense say "this looks like the same team from the end of last year and in the playoffs..." or some itereation of that.


Well if that's the case, than includes the defense as well.......That includes the offense not scoring a TD in the last umpteen quarters in the last 4 games as well as those games when GB, NE, Jax and DET wiped their ass with our defense....

As hervy said in another post in another thread...there's poop everywhere...& there continues to be poop everywhere on this team. Just b/c the biggest smelliest turd is the 1 under center at the moment doesn't mean the other turds elsewhere don't stink.
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Old 09-27-2013   #131
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We expect the defense to play a full half, not just the first half. They gave up 13 points in the second half.

Think about the Chargers game. They gave up 21 points in the first half. They came out the second half & only allowed 7. That's part of the reason why we won the game. The offense had to do their part & score 24 in the second half.

We needed them to do the same thing against the Ravens. Their poor play (lots of penalties, off sides, Pass interference, poor 3rd down percentage, poor performance in the red zone) was overshadowed by the offenses ineptitude, but they did not play well enough to win in the second half.

The offense would have had to score 22 in the second half alone to win that game.
They gave up 16 for the whole game. That's the only thing that matters. I don't care if they give up all 16 in one quarter or spread it out across the whole game. 16 points a game is good defense.

Another thing- I guess they technically gave up 21 points in the first half against SD, but SD had to travel all of 10 yards for their first score. To me, that's really only 14.

I don't know who said this, maybe Carr Bombed (apologies if it's not), but he's right. Cushing just happened to be caught saying this. I'm sure many others in the same situation have said the same thing. Doesn't mean he doesn't think we don't have a good offense...I just think he was frustrated, and, at that time, he was right.

I'm not even saying that we have a bad offense. I happen to think they'll respond this week and the Texans will win. However, the defense has played well this year, last Sunday included- I just think anyone who says they haven't is wrong, that's all.
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Old 09-27-2013   #132
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
See, this is what i hate.... get out of here with these made up ESPN stats trying to skew stuff....

1st of all, the only points the offense is truly responsible for are the Schaub pick 6's. & one of those games he and the offense made up for it. The SD pick he had was 1st of all a great play by the SD defender & 2nd, still on the defense. The defense gets paid to stop an offense...........regardless of where that offense is on the field.....they didnt do it...SD scored a TD....so its on the defense...period. Furthermore, if the defense was as good as you guys are trying to make them out to be & that is our identity & strongest part of our team, they would've at least been able to hold them to 3 there.

I don't have a problem with anyone bashing this offense...they've sputtered too often to be relied upon to show up week in/out....& we can speculate all day on what the chief reasons for that are.......What i absolutely disagree with is how you guys continuously use qualifiers when talking about this defense in an effort to cast it in the best light relative to the offense....but don't do the same when it comes to the offense....Like the offense, the defense too these 1st 3 games has sputtered a bit too often when we've need them to bow their necks...Neither side has played up to its talent level..Despite what your homemade stats might suggest about their performance.

The other thing is, we've continously heard from those critical of the offense say "this looks like the same team from the end of last year and in the playoffs..." or some itereation of that.


Well if that's the case, than includes the defense as well.......That includes the offense not scoring a TD in the last umpteen quarters in the last 4 games as well as those games when GB, NE, Jax and DET wiped their ass with our defense....

As hervy said in another post in another thread...there's poop everywhere...& there continues to be poop everywhere on this team. Just b/c the biggest smelliest turd is the 1 under center at the moment doesn't mean the other turds elsewhere don't stink.

That's a ridiculous way to look at things. If the defense gets a turnover on our own goal line and the offense scores a TD, the defense gets some credit for that and vice versa.

When you give a team the ball in prime scoring position that's a negative on you. Short of three straight sacks or a turnover SD was getting points in that situation.
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Old 09-27-2013   #133
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We expect the defense to play a full half, not just the first half. They gave up 13 points in the second half.

Think about the Chargers game. They gave up 21 points in the first half. They came out the second half & only allowed 7. That's part of the reason why we won the game. The offense had to do their part & score 24 in the second half.

We needed them to do the same thing against the Ravens. Their poor play (lots of penalties, off sides, Pass interference, poor 3rd down percentage, poor performance in the red zone) was overshadowed by the offenses ineptitude, but they did not play well enough to win in the second half.

The offense would have had to score 22 in the second half alone to win that game.
Part of that 21 in the first half was due to the offense turning the ball over with their backs against the EZ.

Defense also scored a TD that helped us win.

It's terribly asinine to keep bringing up the defense as they haven't been spectacular, but they haven't been craptacular either.

It's easier for an offense to make up for a bad half than a defense.

If an offense scores 0 points in a half but scores 30 in the other half, well they scored 30 points.

If defense gives up 28 in a half and pitched a shut out for the other, that still shows up as a bad game. Offense can more easily make up for mistakes and people look at the final result and go well we ended up with this.

On defense one slip up by a DB could mean 7. Short of scoring a TD themselves, there's no making up for that. And even then, you can't erase that 7 from the points scored against you.

There are several reasons that the comparisons between the two are silly.
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Old 09-27-2013   #134
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That's a ridiculous way to look at things. If the defense gets a turnover on our own goal line and the offense scores a TD, the defense gets some credit for that and vice versa.

When you give a team the ball in prime scoring position that's a negative on you. Short of three straight sacks or a turnover SD was getting points in that situation.
Not any more ridiculous than totally absolving the defense for giving up points....which is what many in here have been doing when bringing in these homemade stats....Giving credit and total absolution are 2 totally different things.
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Old 09-27-2013   #135
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Not any more ridiculous than totally absolving the defense for giving up points....which is what many in here have been doing when bringing in these homemade stats....Giving credit and total absolution are 2 totally different things.
"Homemade stats" is kind of a reach, don't ya think?

Just like those who are bashing the defense throw out numbers, those of us who think the defense is doing well do the same thing. That doesn't make them less legitimate.

If you think the offense has no responsibility for SD scoring their first touchdown or Tennessee kicking the field goal before halftime, then I think you're not watching closely enough. Would it have been great if the defense had only allowed a FG after Schaub's int and pushed Tenn back out of FG range after (another) Schaub int? Yes, but that's somewhat unrealistic.

I'm not saying our offense is bad- they've just underperformed so far. I happen to think our defense is doing well- not great, but certainly good enough...and I don't see anyone here totally absolving the defense.

Agree to disagree I guess.
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Old 09-27-2013   #136
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Part of that 21 in the first half was due to the offense turning the ball over with their backs against the EZ.

Defense also scored a TD that helped us win.

It's terribly asinine to keep bringing up the defense as they haven't been spectacular, but they haven't been craptacular either.

It's easier for an offense to make up for a bad half than a defense.

If an offense scores 0 points in a half but scores 30 in the other half, well they scored 30 points.

If defense gives up 28 in a half and pitched a shut out for the other, that still shows up as a bad game. Offense can more easily make up for mistakes and people look at the final result and go well we ended up with this.

On defense one slip up by a DB could mean 7. Short of scoring a TD themselves, there's no making up for that. And even then, you can't erase that 7 from the points scored against you.

There are several reasons that the comparisons between the two are silly.
The defense has the ability to put up points by itself irrespective of the offense....So tell me again how it's easier for an offense to make up for a bad 1/2 again?

edit...There's really nothing else to be discussed if you truly believe the bolded.

you guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 09-27-2013   #137
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Certain environments/personalities call for different types of leadership.

Some guys respond better to a kick in the ass while others may not. I thin the real silliness is trying to determine who is and who isn't a good leads from afar based on actions alone.

Results are what matters when you're looked at as a leader. Are you getting the desired results from whatever leadership style you're using. If you aren't, that's when you should reassess your style. If he is getting other guys to fully focus and give maximum effort then he's a good leader. Doesn't make him a great human, but his leadership can't be questioned if he's getting guys to play better.
You're right. There are different leadership styles, but I don't think the mentality "I'm doing what I'm supposed to, so I can blame everyone else" belongs on any team. I know Cushing isn't content with his performance, regardless of his good play thus far, and I have no doubt that pushing Schaub to be better may be a good leadership move.

Calling him out in public or actually getting into it with him like many on this board are calling for is not leadership. It's that stuff that breaks teams down.
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Old 09-27-2013   #138
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
The defense has the ability to put up points by itself irrespective of the offense....So tell me again how it's easier for an offense to make up for a bad 1/2 again?

edit...There's really nothing else to be discussed if you truly believe the bolded.

you guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too.
Really..

We are now watching a offensive driven league.. playing under a set of rules designed to help offenses. Defenses, even the good ones are going to give up points during periods of a ball game to competent offenses. When you only give up 16 points (which is more than good enough to win) and they give your offense good field position (with a crap load of 3 and outs) it's their job to pick up the slack and put points on the board, especially one that has many weapons as ours.

We're not "having our cake and eating it to"... we're just being realistic and can see which side of the ball is playing better during this short season.
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Old 09-27-2013   #139
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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It's easier for an offense to make up for a bad half than a defense.

If an offense scores 0 points in a half but scores 30 in the other half, well they scored 30 points.

If defense gives up 28 in a half and pitched a shut out for the other, that still shows up as a bad game. Offense can more easily make up for mistakes and people look at the final result and go well we ended up with this.

On defense one slip up by a DB could mean 7. Short of scoring a TD themselves, there's no making up for that. And even then, you can't erase that 7 from the points scored against you.

There are several reasons that the comparisons between the two are silly.
I used the same argument in 2010. So I agree.

However, saying the defense played well enough to win that game is not true. We didn't win.

They pitched a shutout in the first half (we have to qualify this with "damn near"). Let's use that as our base line for a great game.

Baltimore's offense possessed the ball 4 times in the first half. They had 2 three & outs, a punt, & a field goal..... that's great defensive football. I'll take that as often as I can get it.

Of course, there was the pick 6 after their FG, then the ST touchdown.

In the second half, Baltimore had 4 possessions. They allowed an 80 yard drive for a TD (that's not good defense), a field goal on a possession that started on the Ravens 4 yard line (that's not good defense), a field goal on a possession that started on the 50 (the offense turned it over on downs..... that's good football. Not excellent, not great.... but eh... good). They did force the Ravens to punt on one of the 4 second half possessions.

At half time, the ToP was 18 minutes to 11. The offense doing what it needed to do to stay on the field (couldn't score a TD) & the defense doing what it needed to do to get the Ravens off the field (they allowed a score of any kind on 1 of 4 possessions). By the end of the game it was 30 minutes to 29.

The defense also earns a few demerits in the second half for 6 penalties for 42 yards. You're just helping the Ravens stay on the field even longer. 3 were for offsides/encroachment because they couldn't watch the ball. That's not good football.

Forget for a second that Matt Schaub "deserves" all the blame for this loss. Watch what happened in the second half, just the defensive snaps & tell me you saw the Houston Texans playing good football.

No excuses. Just watch that game again.... heck, go through the play by play & tell me the defense played a good game in the second half.
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Old 09-27-2013   #140
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Default Re: Brian Cushing "They aint gonna do it"

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Really..

We are now watching a offensive driven league.. playing under a set of rules designed to help offenses. Defenses, even the good ones are going to give up points during periods of a ball game to competent offenses. When you only give up 16 points (which is more than good enough to win) and they give your offense good field position (with a crap load of 3 and outs) it's their job to pick up the slack and put points on the board, especially one that has many weapons as ours.

We're not "having our cake and eating it to"... we're just being realistic and can see which side of the ball is playing better during this short season.

it is trying to have your cake & eat it too...You guys are hyper-vigilant about the woes of the offense but are flat out ignoring this defenses issues Simply b/c they've played marginally better than the offense has thus far.
Nevermind about how the offense kept us within striking distance & eventually won us the game in WK 1 while it took the defense a whole 1/2 a game & quarter to get it's head out its ass...


nevermind how the offense came thru when we needed them most in the Tennessee game to pull out the victory.

Your post just illustrates it even more..."well, the rules are slanted towards the offense, so they should be putting up video game numbers..." Well, the other guys get paid too.

I mean just browse all the active threads thus far. All that is being talked about is what Schaub or Kubiak aren't doing or how Foster isn't running or something related to the offense.


The bottom line is that each side has needed each other to pick them up at times over the last 3 games. The 1st 2 games the offense answered the bell..this last game they didn't.
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