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Old 09-24-2013   #101
Corrosion
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post


I think Kubiak could do a lot with a better skilled QB. However, it is Kubiak's decision to make Schaub the man, so ultimately, he lives and dies with that decision and Schaub's performances.

Do you think Kubiak will outlast Schaub with the Texans? I think McNair will give him more than enough patience, but how long will Kubiak keep his wagon tied to Schaub's horse?

Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.
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Old 09-24-2013   #102
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.
What's the evidence of this again? He hit his "avg" numbers more or less in 12 games last year. He might not have passed the eyeball test, but his stats from our divisional game matched his avg game. He looked great in San Diego.
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Old 09-24-2013   #103
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.
Yep, Gary & Schaub are attached at the hip.

I cannot see one without the other.

If I were a coach there is no way I would get myself into that situation.
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Old 09-24-2013   #104
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.
Hopefully Kubiak goes all Harbaugh and throws Yates to "the wolves". With what Yates showed in the preseason that may end up being throwing the wolves to the grizzlies. Yates can run this offense and can move. He may not be RG III but he is mobile.
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Old 09-24-2013   #105
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Quote:
Re: The real problem is.....
Is...........

The Texans wait too long to "fix" things.

Case in point, how long did it take the Texans to get a true threat as a #2 receiver. Kevin Walter was fine (and I respect his game) but DeAndre is a true threat. How long did that take?

The Texans are hitched to Schaub and that's fine, but let's draft a QB in a year where it will be a strong QB class. So what if the guy sits for a year or two behind Schaub? I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.
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Old 09-24-2013   #106
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
that was 3 plays......sure they contributed but did they throw the pick 6? did they give up a punt return for a td?

The bottom line is Schaub and special teams is our problem.....no oline is perfect, sacks happen....deal with it
and no QB is perfect...Schaub is way above average, not the best.
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Old 09-24-2013   #107
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I remember one of the first press conferences/speeches that Kubiak gave his first day on the job 7+ yrs. ago. He said he didn't care how much money a player made or where they were drafted, he was going to play the best players that gave the team a chance to win. Fast forward to the present and he's now playing the guys with the biggest contract because to do otherwise would be admitting that they made a mistake. So we're playing Schaub because someones ego would get bruised otherwise. Pitiful.
We're playing Schaub because he's better than Keenum or Yates. Simple as that, no conspiracy theories, not egos, not pride.
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Old 09-24-2013   #108
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
What's the evidence of this again? He hit his "avg" numbers more or less in 12 games last year. He might not have passed the eyeball test, but his stats from our divisional game matched his avg game. He looked great in San Diego.
The numbers .... I thought the same thing about , they look good on the surface , but as you said , he didn't pass the eyeball test.


You look at the design of the offense and that's where the majority of those numbers come from , not Schaub being extraordinary or doing anything excellent. They have to go out of their way to keep him clean , the entire offense is designed around that principal.

The wheels fell off the offense at the tail end of last season and they haven't been able to solve it to this point - numbers be damned. The only number that matters is the scoreboard.
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Old 09-24-2013   #109
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.
Maybe not, but they could be a bridge to the next QB.
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Old 09-24-2013   #110
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Is...........

The Texans wait too long to "fix" things.

Case in point, how long did it take the Texans to get a true threat as a #2 receiver. Kevin Walter was fine (and I respect his game) but DeAndre is a true threat. How long did that take?
If Posey turns into the player he looks like he can be, we're going to be well prepared for life after Andre. Martin is also coming along fine. It took us a while to "fix" the WR2 position, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
The Texans are hitched to Schaub and that's fine, but let's draft a QB in a year where it will be a strong QB class. So what if the guy sits for a year or two behind Schaub? I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.
While I like the idea of sitting a guy & developing him, I don't think that is necessary if you get the right guy. Whether his name is Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson, or Jay Cutler.

There's no guarantee that next years crop of QBs will include a franchise player. It might, might not. We've got QBs on this roster now, that can keep the Texans relevant. While some of us might not be happy if we aren't Super Bowl contenders, I'd be fine with a year of Tj/Case & one and done, then get our QB in 2015 (I don't know if there's a franchise QB in the 2015 class).

What I'd like to see the Texans do, is to start collecting the assets needed to move in the draft to get the players we want. Give us the ability to move up, move down, get the players we need/want regardless of draft position. If we see a Jay Cutler fall out of the top 10, it would be nice to be able to go up & get him.
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Old 09-25-2013   #111
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Sorry TK, I don't believe for a second that this fanbase would be any happier with Andy Dalton at QB than they are with Schaub.

Although the weight of expectation might be slightly lower because we'd only be asking for that one playoff run instead of fretting over our ability to make a really deep run.

Dalton blows hot and cold, the way QBs who start for several years as rookies can do sometimes when they're right on the bubble of being a franchise pick and you can't quite get rid because they might turn the corner ala Drew Brees, or might not ala Alex Smith, HWSNBN.

Not saying Dalton will fail, just that this fanbase would be dogging him at this stage as the limiting factor to a quality cast of non-QB positions.

Cutler takes stick on this board often enough and doesn't even play for us!! No one here is giving Schaub ye benefit of the doubt due to shaky line play, something he's had to deal with for all but maybe 2 of his seasons in Houston?

For all Schaubs issues, he was a good use of 2 #2s, and I'd struggle to name ten players in the league who'd be an immediate upgrade for sure.

All that whilst being certain that we need an upgrade, but for all the **** Kubes is getting for not getting kap or Wilson, I fully support drafting for an elite cast for a new QB to be drafted into either this coming draft or the one after, because i look at the Browns for instance, and see plenty of QBs with talent who never had a chance to make it from the outset because they want to fix the QB position first. Cart before horse IMHO.
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Old 09-25-2013   #112
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
Not saying Dalton will fail, just that this fanbase would be dogging him at this stage as the limiting factor to a quality cast of non-QB positions.
Agreed. But even with his success, Flacco was getting the same treatment at that stage in their career. Dalton has only recently had a team with the talent that Flacco started with, & hopefully (for him, not me) he's got the kind of depth the Ravens had. This might be their year.

Dalton & Schaub are both a few years behind where Flacco is, even though Dalton is several years younger & Schaub is a few years older. Just the way things went, has nothing to do with Dalton or Schaub not being as good as Flacco.

What everyone would like though would have been for Schaub to burn through the postseason the way Rodgers did..... but our team never stayed as healthy as that team Rodgers won the Super Bowl with. We've seen him before & after with a less than 100% team & it's not that pretty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
For all Schaubs issues, he was a good use of 2 #2s, and I'd struggle to name ten players in the league who'd be an immediate upgrade for sure.

All that whilst being certain that we need an upgrade, but for all the **** Kubes is getting for not getting kap or Wilson, I fully support drafting for an elite cast for a new QB to be drafted into either this coming draft or the one after, because i look at the Browns for instance, and see plenty of QBs with talent who never had a chance to make it from the outset because they want to fix the QB position first. Cart before horse IMHO.
I don't know that I would experiment with a Cutler or Gabbert looking for that franchise guy when I've got Schaub. But if I felt there was a guy like Rodgers who slipped in the draft that I felt really good about, or an RG3 I'd like to have the ability to go get him without throwing away our future.
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Old 09-25-2013   #113
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

With the rookie cap the way it is now having a Qb on his rookie contract gives you a tremendous advantage in terms of talent you can put around him. There's a reason the Seahawks and 49ers have two of the strongest rosters in the league top to bottom. It's because they don't have to pay $100 million for their franchise Qb.
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Old 09-25-2013   #114
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Some interesting items:

Quote:
Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 6h

Texans OLB Whitney Mercilus says he was fined $15K 4 what he said was called a helmet 2 helmet hit on Joe Flacco.Mercilus said he'll appeal.

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 7h

Seahawks coach Pete Carroll when asked about J.J. (pause) Watt. "He can go by just his first name."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 7h

Matt Schaub: "No doubt about it the sense of urgency in this locker room is incredible."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 8h

Gary Kubiak says Sam Montgomery,moved from OLB 2 DE,putting on weight from eating good food& working out&could help team there @ some point"

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 8h

Texans OC Rick Dennison on Matt Schaub's interceptions: "He has made some bad decisions...after watching the film he understands why."
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Old 09-25-2013   #115
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Hopefully Kubiak goes all Harbaugh and throws Yates to "the wolves". With what Yates showed in the preseason that may end up being throwing the wolves to the grizzlies. Yates can run this offense and can move. He may not be RG III but he is mobile.
There's a BIG difference here, and I think Harbaugh gets way too much credit for it.

1) Harbaugh drafted Kaep in the 2nd round to be the eventual starter. Despite what he told the press, he was not a believer in Alex.
2) Kaep wasn't chosen to be thrown into the wolves, he was forced to due to injury.
3) They don't run the most complicated system in SF. You can contribute a lot of his success due to the read option, which is fairly easy to run for a QB.

- Yates was drafted in the 5th to be a backup/project.
- Yates was also technically thrown to the wolves his rookie year due to injury, he just didn't outplay Schaub during that time.
- We don't run a simple offense here.
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Old 09-25-2013   #116
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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There's a BIG difference here, and I think Harbaugh gets way too much credit for it.

1) Harbaugh drafted Kaep in the 2nd round to be the eventual starter. Despite what he told the press, he was not a believer in Alex.
2) Kaep wasn't chosen to be thrown into the wolves, he was forced to due to injury.
3) They don't run the most complicated system in SF. You can contribute a lot of his success due to the read option, which is fairly easy to run for a QB.

- Yates was drafted in the 5th to be a backup/project.
- Yates was also technically thrown to the wolves his rookie year due to injury, he just didn't outplay Schaub during that time.
- We don't run a simple offense here.
Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.
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Old 09-26-2013   #117
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.
The big difference was everyone knew Kaep was the future. He was drafted to be the future. It was only a matter of time before he started. Can you say the same about Yates?
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Old 09-26-2013   #118
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

ehhh we just gotta run the ball more and I mean run it on


3 & 7

3&4

ad hope we can get it and if not 4th and 1 maybe we run it again


Running the ball one way to null the Blitzes
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Old 09-26-2013   #119
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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The big difference was everyone knew Kaep was the future. He was drafted to be the future. It was only a matter of time before he started. Can you say the same about Yates?
I have to agree with this. Harbaugh "inherited" Alex Smith. He wasn't tied at the hip to Smith because he didn't draft or trade for him. He drafted Kaepernick so naturally he was going to insert his guy as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

HOWEVER... it is interesting to note that Alex Smith has taken last year's 2-14 Chiefs to 3-0 while Kaepernick has the reigning NFC champs at 1-2. So, long term, was the change really the right move??

What will be interesting to watch is how (or IF) Harbaugh gets his young "stud" QB to recover and get back to last year's form now that the Seahawks - and then the Colts - have showed the league that Kaepernick can be had.
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Old 09-26-2013   #120
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.
No ones saying any different. If not for the injury, they wouldn't have made one up to get Kaepernick on the field. Alex Smith (like Matt Schaub) was playing well enough to win. Yanking him for an unknown, regardless how good you feel about the guy in the wing... if you're losing & have nothing to lose, yeah.

But as long as we're on the plus side, we're not going to see a QB change unless there's an injury. Then it will be up to that guy to outplay Schaub the way Kaepernick outplayed Smith. Personally, if I were the OC, he'll have to outplay Schaub within my system. If he's bailing to early or ad libing too much, even if he's making plays, he stays on the bench. If there are plays to be made before protection breaks down, I expect him to make those plays.
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