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Old 09-23-2013   #61
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I'm a Keenum fan, also. I just like him. Having said that, there is absolutely no way that he starts a game this season unless we suffer an injury barrage at QB like we witnessed in 2011. If that happens, expect Kubiak to go even more conservative because that means he has no good QB as a back up. The more likely bet is that Schaub gets hurt or "hurt" and Yates takes over. There is a 0% likelihood that Keenum gets a start over Yates.
So you're saying they don't believe in their slogan of Super Bowl whatever it takes?
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Old 09-23-2013   #62
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by waynegg View Post
So you're saying they don't believe in their slogan of Super Bowl whatever it takes?
Yes, I am saying that.
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Old 09-23-2013   #63
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We've got 3 OTs on the roster. Brown (toe), Newton (knee), Harris

We drafted Brennan Williams in the third as insurance in case Newton couldn't get back to his pre injury form. We also drafted David Quesenberry for future development.
We have four. You're forgetting Andrew Gardner who ironically was the best one during preseason. But, eh, it's preseason and the others have more experience so I can see why Kube and staff have him behind Harris and such. But if things continue, like you said, changes may be made. At some point go to make these guys responsible for their play.
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Old 09-23-2013   #64
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

Couldn't agree more!!

Our O-line is junk so far. three pro-bowlers up front playing like three stooges. That couples with Matt Schaub....Oh God, where do we go from here????
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Old 09-23-2013   #65
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I'm a Keenum fan, also. I just like him. Having said that, there is absolutely no way that he starts a game this season unless we suffer an injury barrage at QB like we witnessed in 2011. If that happens, expect Kubiak to go even more conservative because that means he has no good QB as a back up. The more likely bet is that Schaub gets hurt or "hurt" and Yates takes over. There is a 0% likelihood that Keenum gets a start over Yates.
Not that it matters, but college ball has never interested me so I had no clue who he was until he turned up on the team. I read up on him and what he did in Houston was amazing. The difference in how the rest of the team played when he was out injured and how the same team played with him was profound. I think he could have what it takes, and it would suck for him to get pine all over his ass and ruin that. It would suck even more if he said eff you and followed the contract offers once his 2-year runs out at the end of the season...
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Old 09-23-2013   #66
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by SchaubApologist View Post
Schaub has only been sacked 7 times through 3 games. That is only 2.35 per game, which is acceptable by NFL standards.

And lets be real here.. It's not like Schaub is avoiding sacks & deflating his sack total.

The problem is Schaub's confidence. He has a 39.5 QBR through 3 games, and his accuracy has been suspect.

We are witnessing a continuation of his struggles from late last season.

I thought Kubiak would install some new wrinkles this off season to help him out, but apparently not.
Schaub's foot is making him statue like and is causing most of his accuracy problems.

Go back and check out Schaub's preinjury 2009-2010 seasons and compare them to last yr and the begining of this yr. It's quite telling.
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Old 09-23-2013   #67
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by waynegg View Post
Not that it matters, but college ball has never interested me so I had no clue who he was until he turned up on the team. I read up on him and what he did in Houston was amazing. The difference in how the rest of the team played when he was out injured and how the same team played with him was profound. I think he could have what it takes, and it would suck for him to get pine all over his ass and ruin that. It would suck even more if he said eff you and followed the contract offers once his 2-year runs out at the end of the season...
I'm with you. I vaguely follow college sports. Yates and Keenum both showed me that they understand this offense and can execute it.

It's so obvious that Schaub can't get the job done that I wouldn't hesitate to start either one over Schaub. I believe that the best man should have the starting job, regardless of position or draft status.
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Old 09-23-2013   #68
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I'm with you. I vaguely follow college sports. Yates and Keenum both showed me that they understand this offense and can execute it.

It's so obvious that Schaub can't get the job done that I wouldn't hesitate to start either one over Schaub. I believe that the best man should have the starting job, regardless of position or draft status.
...or salary the owner wants them to "earn" since they're paying them so much. I'm not against Yates by a long shot. Love him. Keenum just looks like he has more. His college record illustrates he knows how to motivate his team and get the best out of what he has to work with and has the apples to take his team as far as they can go.
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Old 09-23-2013   #69
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Schaub's foot is making him statue like and is causing most of his accuracy problems.

Go back and check out Schaub's preinjury 2009-2010 seasons and compare them to last yr and the begining of this yr. It's quite telling.
Then start the better QB. Have some balls as a coach and/or GM. Swallow your pride and pull the trigger. It has worked famously in the past.
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Old 09-24-2013   #70
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Schaub has shortcomings, he's not perfect nor close to "elite"... so the team needs to help him out, by giving him a clean pocket.
I think that's what bothering some fans the most. Everyone has to help Schaub be the best he can be. The line has to be perfect, he has to have stars across the board at receiver, he needs a great running game. When does Schaub make the other players better? When can he mask their weaknesses?

No, the team around Schaub is not perfect. But Denver has had issues on their o-line and are lacking a running game. The Pats are decimated at receiver. Yet, their QBs mask these problems. OK, Schaub is not a HOFer like Manning or Brady. Then what is he? If he's a game manager, Schaub's doing an excellent job of managing to put up points for the opposition.
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Well the real problem are the fans...
Yeah, right. Yes, 2-1 is better than 1-2, or 0-3. Not as good as 3-0. We get that. Still, I think it's OK to discuss what we see on the field on not just the final score.
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Old 09-24-2013   #71
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I completely agree but then I look at what Pete Carrol did with Wilson and what Harbaugh did with Kaepernick and say WTF??? Why can't Kubiak have the stones to do that? It took MAJOY HUEVOS for Carrol to name Wilson the starter after signing what's his name to a FA contract. Just let the best man start and screw the money. Just win, baby.
It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.
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Old 09-24-2013   #72
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by SchaubApologist View Post
You're not breaking news here.. We are aware of the OL, but a good QB (which Schaub is paid to be) can overcome/mask a lot of that (which he has not).
Some might say the "sunshine pumpers" are the delusional ones, but it's THIS mentality that is the most delusional. The Schaub haters are the ones who have themselves convinced that it's one guy who's holding this team back, and if we can JUST change that one guy, we'll be set.

While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.

But yeah, we can make Schaub the scapegoat, put all the blame on him, and cross our fingers and tell ourselves that once the bad bad man is gone everything will be roses and rainbows.
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Old 09-24-2013   #73
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by waynegg View Post
...or salary the owner wants them to "earn" since they're paying them so much. I'm not against Yates by a long shot. Love him. Keenum just looks like he has more. His college record illustrates he knows how to motivate his team and get the best out of what he has to work with and has the apples to take his team as far as they can go.
If what you did in college and how well you did in a short stint was indicative of your NFL success, Vince Young would be a star in this league.
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Old 09-24-2013   #74
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Manning is shredding the Oakland defense throwing into double-coverages ... without a starting LT ... and with a four surgery neck and not much mobility. And you are saying our QB isn't the issue? Oh, ok ...
Ok... this is just plain true.
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Old 09-24-2013   #75
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.
What is really be said is there is no sense in doing what it takes to win a superbowl.
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Old 09-24-2013   #76
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.
I don't think that's the case.

I think he realizes that he has no better option and likely cant acquire a better option .... and that even by drafting a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to immediately or ever be a better option ....

Then we have to realize that they had a huge need at the WR spot too and took what appears to be a very good one which should have made Schuab better ...


Bottom line , the team was in win now mode during this past offseason (and still is) and drafting a QB early would have limited them in that pursuit.


In hindsight , I wish they woulda used at least one of the picks spent on B.Williams , T.Williams & Montgomery on a QB .... as they were totally wasted from all appearances.
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Old 09-24-2013   #77
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by cstyle42 View Post
Ok... this is just plain true.
Literally every team (except those who already have one) want one of those mythical 3-4 ELITE QBs. That's 32 teams vying for 3-4 players. If your standard for a QB is that, don't hold your breath, we'll be waiting for a while, just by probability/statistics.
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Old 09-24-2013   #78
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post

While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.
Eh.... kinda. When Matt Schaub took over for David Carr.. or Sage took over for David... the OL looked better immediately. QBs who knew how to read a defense quickly, make decisions quickly, & get rid of the ball hid a lot of our OL deficiencies.

If Matt can't do that anymore, we need to find someone who can, or someone who can escape pressure & allow the routes to develop.

I'm not a Matt hater, but I do see both sides of the argument. He touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, giving him the most influence on how this offense develops. If we want to open the running lanes for Arian & Tate, we've got to get the ball down the field... even if it's going to be an incompletion. The defenses are going to make you prove that you can & will test them. Matt Schaub is a hundred times better than David Carr, but I think the final straw was that David couldn't find a way to make the defenses respect all that God given talent in his right arm.

Matt doesn't have an arm like that, but he can put that ball up along the sideline, just like Flacco did. Either our guy is going to get the ball, a penalty called against the other team, or it's going out of bounds. That ball he threw to Hop, was almost what we needed. But he threw it so far out of bounds, DeAndre couldn't have made a play on it if he wanted to. We got a holding penalty instead of a PI & the defense didn't buy his bluff.
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Old 09-24-2013   #79
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Eh.... kinda. When Matt Schaub took over for David Carr.. or Sage took over for David... the OL looked better immediately. QBs who knew how to read a defense quickly, make decisions quickly, & get rid of the ball hid a lot of our OL deficiencies.

If Matt can't do that anymore, we need to find someone who can, or someone who can escape pressure & allow the routes to develop.

I'm not a Matt hater, but I do see both sides of the argument. He touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, giving him the most influence on how this offense develops. If we want to open the running lanes for Arian & Tate, we've got to get the ball down the field... even if it's going to be an incompletion. The defenses are going to make you prove that you can & will test them. Matt Schaub is a hundred times better than David Carr, but I think the final straw was that David couldn't find a way to make the defenses respect all that God given talent in his right arm.

Matt doesn't have an arm like that, but he can put that ball up along the sideline, just like Flacco did. Either our guy is going to get the ball, a penalty called against the other team, or it's going out of bounds. That ball he threw to Hop, was almost what we needed. But he threw it so far out of bounds, DeAndre couldn't have made a play on it if he wanted to. We got a holding penalty instead of a PI & the defense didn't buy his bluff.
No, I completely agree a better QB will make this team better. Duh, right?

The question is a) where to find that QB and b) how much better? I disagree with the sentiment that Schaub is the weakness that, once solved, will make the team perform up to our expectations.

Schaub needs to play better than he showed in the last two weeks. I know he's capable of it (unless the injury really took that much out of him). But we saw it on week 1, so we know that MS is in there, somewhere. We just have to get into the playoffs and hope he's emerged and is clicking.
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Old 09-24-2013   #80
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Default Re: The real problem is.....

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I don't think that's the case.

I think he realizes that he has no better option and likely cant acquire a better option .... and that even by drafting a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to immediately or ever be a better option ....
That's the situation we're in now, because he is content with the QB he has.

If he felt there were issues at the QB position, then it would have been worth it to draft Kaepernick with a second, Wilson with a third, or even sign Henne (who I think Kubiak can make a starter of).

But he didn't. We have what we have. If he thinks Tj or Keenum can start.... I'm fine with that. If he thinks he can win a Super Bowl with either of them, he's going to have to show me.

If he doesn't think he can win a Super Bowl with Tj or Keenum & he thinks there are issues with Matt, I don't understand why Tj or Keenum is on the roster & some other developmental guy isn't.
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