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Old 09-18-2013   #1
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Default The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Lance Zierlein & company at The Sideline View are doing various forms of film breakdown on their site & on YouTube.

This is a catchall thread for those...


TSV Film Room - Texans Double Dual

Interesting to see how much is asked of our guards in the "double dual".
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Old 09-18-2013   #2
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Thanks alot for the link!!! I'm a student of the game, so I love watching the video tape breakdowns.

This "double dual" seems a bit flawed? So basically Brooks has to handle two guys, while Wade has nothing to do, AND Schaub has to check to his hot receiver? I'd like to see an example of a good execution of this. It doesn't seem right that Schaub must quickly go to his hot receiver when they're only rushing 5?

A logical execution of this would be:
1) Once Wade sees 53 blitzing on the right side, he should help double-up on Myers' guy.
2) Brooks gets a better hit on 56, so that he can be easily be passed off to Myers
3) Then Brooks is able to push 53 out wider
4) Schaub then has the option to step up in the pocket towards his left to make a clean throw.
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Old 09-18-2013   #3
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Thanks alot for the link!!! I'm a student of the game, so I love watching the video tape breakdowns.

This "double dual" seems a bit flawed? So basically Brooks has to handle two guys, while Wade has nothing to do, AND Schaub has to check to his hot receiver? I'd like to see an example of a good execution of this. It doesn't seem right that Schaub must quickly go to his hot receiver when they're only rushing 5?

A logical execution of this would be:
1) Once Wade sees 53 blitzing on the right side, he should help double-up on Myers' guy.
2) Brooks gets a better hit on 56, so that he can be easily be passed off to Myers
3) Then Brooks is able to push 53 out wider
4) Schaub then has the option to step up in the pocket towards his left to make a clean throw.
This is what I posted in another thread. I fully believe they made the attempt to do what you stated above. They just failed to finish. I may be wrong, but that's what my peepers saw
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Old 09-18-2013   #4
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Here's a basic read on pass pro that includes the dual read concept for O-lineman, especially the guard.

http://smartfootball.com/pass-protec...ass-protection

The QB just has to throw to the hot receiver; alas, it fell right into the Titans' trap. Schaub did not expect Pollard to leave the TE to jump the route.

It's another cat and mouse game, and they won that one.
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Old 09-18-2013   #5
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's a basic read on pass pro that includes the dual read concept for O-lineman, especially the guard.

http://smartfootball.com/pass-protec...ass-protection

The QB just has to throw to the hot receiver; alas, it fell right into the Titans' trap. Schaub did not expect Pollard to leave the TE to jump the route.

It's another cat and mouse game, and they won that one.
From that link:

Quote:
In the 1980s and for much of the 1990s, however, it was common to also have linemen — typically the guard — also dual read, but the practice has significantly died out due to the difficulties presented as a result of the zone blitz and increased athleticism of defenders.
So are we using out-dated techniques?
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Old 09-18-2013   #6
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
From that link:



So are we using out-dated techniques?
It's not like we're doing it all the time - far from that; and we're not the only team to do it either.

There are several protection schemes that we use.
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Old 09-18-2013   #7
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Speaking from a position of ignorance on what our OL is coached to do, but from a position of general knowledge I think the following:

I think with the movement pre-snap Myers should have checked and slid the protection to the strong side. The NT crosses face to engage Myer in order to establish the two-on-one against Brooks.

I think Myers should have passed the NT on to Wade who should have engaged the NT when he sees the pre-snap movement leaving him uncovered. This gives 1 on 1 across the board.

I only say this because the movement was clear pre-snap. If they executed this blitz post snap then I say we play it how we did on film as the additional steps needed from keeping it disguised would have provided plenty of time for Matt to get rid of the ball.
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Old 09-18-2013   #8
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fico View Post
Speaking from a position of ignorance on what our OL is coached to do, but from a position of general knowledge I think the following:

I think with the movement pre-snap Myers should have checked and slid the protection to the strong side. The NT crosses face to engage Myer in order to establish the two-on-one against Brooks.

I think Myers should have passed the NT on to Wade who should have engaged the NT when he sees the pre-snap movement leaving him uncovered. This gives 1 on 1 across the board.

I only say this because the movement was clear pre-snap. If they executed this blitz post snap then I say we play it how we did on film as the additional steps needed from keeping it disguised would have provided plenty of time for Matt to get rid of the ball.
If Rey had not checked out of Hotel Calfornia, I would have like to have his input on the matter since he had played on the O-line.

At any rate, this is my understanding of pass pro.
The Center makes the Mike call. He declares the weak side to be the strength of the defense. Why?

If we look at the line-up, Wade Smith was the only uncovered lineman, but there's the WILL #53 in front of him on the second level and there's also a DB on the line outside the LT.
This guy lined up inside our left slot, and was also a threat to blitz, on the blind side no less.

There was also a DB on the other side, but he was some 3 yards further out.

I believe the term for this is a "tough" call.
Wade Smith needs to stay back in case the WILL or the nickel back blitz on the blind side. You want to protect the QB's blind side.

If the WILL happens to blitz the strong side, it is up to the QB to quickly find his hot receiver, which Schaub did.

It was just too bad that the ball was deflected and Pollard made a good play on the ball.

We can still say that our line didn't do a good enough job since the ball was tipped and Brook wasn't quick enough to handle two guys long enough in order for Schaub to have a better vision of the field.
But I think that was the protection call.
It is still on the QB to get rid of the ball if he feels like he doesn't have enough time.

It was a tough call allright.
A combination of several little things that added together to the favor of the defense.
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Old 09-19-2013   #9
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Here's another video from TSV


I think maybe some of our OL issues is the wide gaps these guys are lining up with. I remember a time, when we used to line up shoulder to shoulder. But as our line & system matures, looks like we're opening those gaps.... which is overall a good thing if we are playing well enough to do so.


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Old 09-19-2013   #10
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
If Rey had not checked out of Hotel Calfornia, I would have like to have his input on the matter since he had played on the O-line.

At any rate, this is my understanding of pass pro.
The Center makes the Mike call. He declares the weak side to be the strength of the defense. Why?

If we look at the line-up, Wade Smith was the only uncovered lineman, but there's the WILL #53 in front of him on the second level and there's also a DB on the line outside the LT.
This guy lined up inside our left slot, and was also a threat to blitz, on the blind side no less.

There was also a DB on the other side, but he was some 3 yards further out.

I believe the term for this is a "tough" call.
Wade Smith needs to stay back in case the WILL or the nickel back blitz on the blind side. You want to protect the QB's blind side.

If the WILL happens to blitz the strong side, it is up to the QB to quickly find his hot receiver, which Schaub did.

It was just too bad that the ball was deflected and Pollard made a good play on the ball.

We can still say that our line didn't do a good enough job since the ball was tipped and Brook wasn't quick enough to handle two guys long enough in order for Schaub to have a better vision of the field.
But I think that was the protection call.
It is still on the QB to get rid of the ball if he feels like he doesn't have enough time.

It was a tough call allright.
A combination of several little things that added together to the favor of the defense.
I get that the pre-snap alignment may have dictated that Wade stay put but I think the movement pre-snap should override that. If they want to bring the additional pressure from the DB lined up outside then that is on Schuab to account for.

Anyways, I do think it was a very good pressure call by Tenn.

They did a good job with their pressure packages all day, much to ire of our fans who insisted we throw past the sticks on every 3rd down.

Between this board and another that I was on during the game there must have been a 100 3rd down play selection complaints. If they are bringing more than we can block or out executing our blocking schemes, like above, then we have 1 of 2 options: We can throw short and quick and hope for a missed tackle, or we can throw the 1 on 1 fade, deep ball, jump ball. We did both of those throughout the game.
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Old 09-19-2013   #11
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Here's more film study from LZ on Titans game...

NFL Week 2 Film Study: What Went Right And Wrong For The Texans

Quote:
Lance Zierlein takes a closer look at what went right and what went wrong for the Texans -- and, more importantly, why -- in his film study session of the Texans and Titans game.
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Old 10-11-2013   #12
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It's not like we're doing it all the time - far from that; and we're not the only team to do it either.

There are several protection schemes that we use.
"We", Coach Benton?

Actually, on B-gap looks, the Texans coach double-dueling. That's their philosophy unless there are mitigating circumstances in terms of the rest of the defensive front. It's not up for debate. The go through practice sessions with guards working the double-duel technique. I spent about 5-10 minutes after practice last year with Coach Benton speaking specifically about it and why they use that when it can allow interior pressure into a non-mobile QBs face.

Personally, I don't think Schaub is mobile enough or confident enough to have pressure in his face and respond well. I would rather block one and let him know who he (Schaub) is responsible for. That's just my mindset with this QB. Most teams are getting away from double-dueling because it is so difficult.
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Old 10-11-2013   #13
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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"We", Coach Benton?

Actually, on B-gap looks, the Texans coach double-dueling. That's their philosophy unless there are mitigating circumstances in terms of the rest of the defensive front. It's not up for debate. The go through practice sessions with guards working the double-duel technique. I spent about 5-10 minutes after practice last year with Coach Benton speaking specifically about it and why they use that when it can allow interior pressure into a non-mobile QBs face.

Personally, I don't think Schaub is mobile enough or confident enough to have pressure in his face and respond well. I would rather block one and let him know who he (Schaub) is responsible for. That's just my mindset with this QB. Most teams are getting away from double-dueling because it is so difficult.
Agreed... Especially, considering schaub a long strider, in combination with his lack of mobility. I thought Tennessee really exposed the weakness and predictability of the texansprotection scheme.
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Old 10-11-2013   #14
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Personally, I don't think Schaub is mobile enough or confident enough to have pressure in his face and respond well. I would rather block one and let him know who he (Schaub) is responsible for. That's just my mindset with this QB. Most teams are getting away from double-dueling because it is so difficult.
What do you think of Schaub's foot? Seems the media have gotten past the Lisfranc, but it could very well explain a lot about what we've been seeing since the @Jags game last season.

I know you're going to do what you do & I appreciate it. But I'd love for you guys to get the Texans to start talking about his foot.
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Old 10-11-2013   #15
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

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Agreed... Especially, considering schaub a long strider, in combination with his lack of mobility. I thought Tennessee really exposed the weakness and predictability of the texansprotection scheme.
You could really see that long striding getting him into trouble against San Francisco. Bottom line, that was the root cause for all three INTs & the almost INT.
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Old 10-11-2013   #16
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by LZ View Post
"We", Coach Benton?

Actually, on B-gap looks, the Texans coach double-dueling. That's their philosophy unless there are mitigating circumstances in terms of the rest of the defensive front. It's not up for debate. The go through practice sessions with guards working the double-duel technique. I spent about 5-10 minutes after practice last year with Coach Benton speaking specifically about it and why they use that when it can allow interior pressure into a non-mobile QBs face.

Personally, I don't think Schaub is mobile enough or confident enough to have pressure in his face and respond well. I would rather block one and let him know who he (Schaub) is responsible for. That's just my mindset with this QB. Most teams are getting away from double-dueling because it is so difficult.
I'm not sure I quite understand all the things you want to say, LZ.

I do understand that it's their philosophy; I tried to go back from the start, and rewatch the first game as an example.

Certainly, it can be done, as Harris had pointed out.
It is something you expect of a veteran QB.

Rewatching the first game, you can see Schaub under those circumstances, and he made good decisions. Three or four or five times.
Nobody and nobody can say that the protection scheme was bad.

I do respect you guys for pointing out certain things;
I do learn; I try to learn about football, may be not everyday.

The philosophy, the way I see it, is for the QB to make a good decision.
Within your system, you narrow down certain instances that the QB might be subjected to a pass rush, and you want them to recognize those instances.

I hear you about perhaps it's not optimum with Schaub under center.
But it's like asking for Nirvana in this particular instance.

Schaub made good decisions in this particular protection scheme in the first game in three to five instances.

At this level, I don't think it "should" matter what kind of protection scheme you're in. You call a play from empty, your QB has to know how to respond to a blitz; no excuse.
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Old 10-11-2013   #17
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Default Re: The Sideline View Film/Video Room

I would think with a QB like Schaub who is very non athletic you would not want pressure in his face at all if you could prevent it.
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