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Old 09-11-2013   #21
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Originally Posted by silvrhand View Post
In a 3-4 defense we don't have the outside linebacker than can put up the big numbers we need. Reed has dropped off, Mercilus.. not a proven factor yet, and we rely on Watt..

Not good, we really need someone else to step up and be a 10 sack a year guy.
Again, Mercilus is def a key to take it to next level. I thought he showed at least some flash on Monday, so there is hope for this yet. Otherwise adding Cush, Mays, Swearinger, Reed >>>>>>> Quin meaning our D should still be improved over last year.
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Old 09-11-2013   #22
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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I am not too worried about defense. We looked great for one half and rusty the other half. Watt, Cushing, Mercilus, Mitchell were coming of injuries - A. Smith and Ed Reed are still missing and should help (Smith was really missing in the running game).

We don`t have real holes on defense. Sure OLB depht looks shaky, ILB has question marks, CB3 looked bad - but all teams have problems like that. We have enough talent to be the best defense of the league.
The rules have changed but our coaching has not. We can not cover recievers one on one every play and our blitzes are not getting enough preasure on the QB. The offense is completeing too many long plays on us.
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Old 09-11-2013   #23
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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What rules are you saying changed this year which affected the Chargers game?
The "rule" where offensive lineman get to hold JJ Watt on every other play. If this continues, it's basically going to be like the NBA, where different players are allowed to be molested.
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Old 09-11-2013   #24
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Originally Posted by klockWork View Post
But my biggest issue with our defense is our Db's still don't play the ball when it's in the air, particularly on man coverage. J.Jo use to play the ball all the time when he was in Cincy. In his first year in Houston he played the ball most of the time. In his second year game after game I noticed he's playing it less and less. That long passing play Rivers completed in the beginning of the 2nd half Joseph was stride for stride with his man. The ball was in the air forever. Joseph never once look up but contend to play the receiver instead. If he bother to look up the ball was there for the taking.

If Johnathan Joseph, a player whose always played the ball in his entire career, switched teams, then gradually loses that habit, is that on him? Or is that his coaches not emphasizing that on their players? Does anybody have any recent memory of one of our Db's playing the ball on a long pass? Next week against the Titans I can guarantee there will be a long completed pass or a pass interference flag against our Db's because they didn't bother to look up at the ball. I just hope it doesn't cost us the game.
You don't play the ball in man coverage, you play the man.The only time you look back for the ball is if you are in perfect position, if you are in a trail position, even by 1 step, then you play the man and the hands. Man coverage is for sacks and pass breakups, zone coverage is for turnovers and big play prevention.

Personally , I think we play too much man and loved when we started playing some two deep shell in the 2nd half. You can still bring a variety of pressure looks and make plays on the ball. Also we are forcing the QB to read post snap and we were not having our coverage dictated by formation.
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Old 09-11-2013   #25
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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I really can't agree with a single assessment thus far in this thread. I feel the stubbornness of Wade Phillips to Blitz every other down is what got us into this mess in the first place. Of the 49 times Rivers was sacked last year, 35 came when rushing 4 or less. The guy can't deal with defenses dropping 6 into coverage, and yet, we sent 5 or 6 every other play. In addition, sending Swearinger to safety blitz is taking Danieal Manning's greatest quality away from his skill set, playing near the LOS and blitzing. I understand Ed Reed being out directly affects that decision but we have to be able to generate pressure without the blitz.

Phillips didn't adjust until after the opening TD drive in the third quarter, had he done so after the first 15 minutes we'd be singing a much different tune.

While I think this game plan will be much more effective against Jake Locker with his completion percentage woes, Phillip Rivers isn't the QB to play that game plan against. He sees single coverage matchups too easily and was picking on McCain and Reed.
My thoughts exactly... we don't have the secondary to play man coverage against the above average QBs in the league. I'm still seeing our DBs and safeties playing chase with WRs and TEs on intermediate and deep routes vs. being in position to turn around and defend the pass.

Something has to change or we're going to be out of the playoffs early just like the last 2 years.
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Old 09-11-2013   #26
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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My thoughts exactly... we don't have the secondary to play man coverage against the above average QBs in the league. I'm still seeing our DBs and safeties playing chase with WRs and TEs on intermediate and deep routes vs. being in position to turn around and defend the pass.

Something has to change or we're going to be out of the playoffs early just like the last 2 years.
Nobody has the secondary to play man coverage 90% of the time. Even with 3 pro bowl corners, it's not going to work. That's the point. The scheme is a failure against good passing teams. Like I said, our only chance is to get to the quarterback extremely early, almost every passing play, or knock balls down at the LOS. That's also near impossible to do.
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Old 09-11-2013   #27
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

My feelings during the first half were......, "Well, I guess preseason is a little more important than anyone seems to think." I do think they missed Antonio, but they were very lethargic & didn't seem ready to play the game. Thank God they woke up in the second half.
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Old 09-11-2013   #28
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
This too! ^^^

Everyone on here is so quick to jump on Kubiak's stubbornness on offense, but I don't understand why Wade gets a free pass. Wade's frequently repeated blitz & man-coverage is equivalent to Kubiak's persistence to stick with the run.
I personally don't get on Wade about being stubborn, is because I just don't see it. I don't think we played zone any more in the second half than we did in the first.

If the guys on the TV say we're playing man coverage doesn't necessarily make it so. It wasn't true in the Patriots game, it wasn't true in Monday night's game.

IMO, the biggest difference was who was playing what. Instead of playing Manning on the line & attacking the QB (like he did with 7:13 left in the first half) he put him on Antonio Gates in the second half.

Instead of Brian Cushing as the primary blitzer, like he was saying in the first half, he dropped Brian into coverage in the second half instead of Mays.

That one pass thrown past Brooks Reed for the TD..... I didn't see any other, could have been beat if Brooks had not let Matthews get into his route free. He should have put his hands on him, slowed him down.... that play wouldn't have happened, had nothing to do with the defensive play call.

As far as McCain getting beat in man coverage.... I said in another thread, that I've never seen Eddie Royal run so many routes so well. That is not his game. He was a second round bust, because he couldn't run anything but a go route. I would have expected him to hit us with a go route at some time during the game & I can't think of anyone other than Brice McCain who'd be fast enough to play him man-to-man. If I'd have known he was going to be running routes like that I'd have put the more physical Kareem on Royal, or Brandon Harris.
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Old 09-11-2013   #29
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

Everything brings back to what Gary has been saying.
The defense is at a disadvantage.

It doesn't really make sense about wanting a DC to vary between man and zone or something in between. It's really more about execution.

It's all nice and neat that we seat back here and ask a long-time DC like Wade to vary his scheme. Please pardon my language, but it's like asking the most astute ladies of the night if they know the tricks; it's ridiculous at best/
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Old 09-11-2013   #30
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I personally don't get on Wade about being stubborn, is because I just don't see it. I don't think we played zone any more in the second half than we did in the first.

If the guys on the TV say we're playing man coverage doesn't necessarily make it so. It wasn't true in the Patriots game, it wasn't true in Monday night's game.

IMO, the biggest difference was who was playing what. Instead of playing Manning on the line & attacking the QB (like he did with 7:13 left in the first half) he put him on Antonio Gates in the second half.

Instead of Brian Cushing as the primary blitzer, like he was saying in the first half, he dropped Brian into coverage in the second half instead of Mays.

That one pass thrown past Brooks Reed for the TD..... I didn't see any other, could have been beat if Brooks had not let Matthews get into his route free. He should have put his hands on him, slowed him down.... that play wouldn't have happened, had nothing to do with the defensive play call.

As far as McCain getting beat in man coverage.... I said in another thread, that I've never seen Eddie Royal run so many routes so well. That is not his game. He was a second round bust, because he couldn't run anything but a go route. I would have expected him to hit us with a go route at some time during the game & I can't think of anyone other than Brice McCain who'd be fast enough to play him man-to-man. If I'd have known he was going to be running routes like that I'd have put the more physical Kareem on Royal, or Brandon Harris.
There's so much fail in this post TK. From not running man coverage against the pats, to us not doing so in this game, to the Mathews TD not being an issue with the defensive play call, to Eddie Royal not being a good route runner, to Royal being a strictly go route guy. Huge fail all around.

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Old 09-11-2013   #31
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

Our defense will be fine if we get a better corner to play the slot. Mccain is terrible and Harris never showed anything either. We should consider a trade ASAP.
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Old 09-11-2013   #32
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

Didn't play well for 2 1/3 quarters. After that they completely shut everything down. Thought I read a stat somewhere that said for the final 25 plays or so they only allowed 10 yards. That's alpha as **** right there, and all without Ninja and Gramps in the secondary.

When do fans just stop looking for outs? Players are the ones that have to execute, I find it amusing that some fans would rather bash on the coaching staff, and then give Shiloh Keo a free pass for blowing the assignment that led to the big gainer coming out of halftime, or the handful of other mental mistakes that were made throughout the game.
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Old 09-12-2013   #33
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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I find it amusing that some fans would rather bash on the coaching staff, and then give Shiloh Keo a free pass for blowing the assignment that led to the big gainer coming out of halftime, or the handful of other mental mistakes that were made throughout the game.
Or the missed tackles. Both Cushing & Watt got their hands on Matthews plenty of times in the backfield, just wasn't able to bring him down. One in particular made Cushing look silly as he faceplanted into the ground. One minute, Matthews was there, next minute he wasn't.

Normally we expect these guys (Cushing & Watt) to make those plays.

Personally I think the missed tackles has something to do with the nature of the practices with the new contract agreement. But if that's what the players want, less contact at practice, they need to bring it on game-day.

Week 1, just like week 16.
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Old 09-12-2013   #34
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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I really can't agree with a single assessment thus far in this thread. I feel the stubbornness of Wade Phillips to Blitz every other down is what got us into this mess in the first place. Of the 49 times Rivers was sacked last year, 35 came when rushing 4 or less. The guy can't deal with defenses dropping 6 into coverage, and yet, we sent 5 or 6 every other play. In addition, sending Swearinger to safety blitz is taking Danieal Manning's greatest quality away from his skill set, playing near the LOS and blitzing. I understand Ed Reed being out directly affects that decision but we have to be able to generate pressure without the blitz.

Phillips didn't adjust until after the opening TD drive in the third quarter, had he done so after the first 15 minutes we'd be singing a much different tune.

While I think this game plan will be much more effective against Jake Locker with his completion percentage woes, Phillip Rivers isn't the QB to play that game plan against. He sees single coverage matchups too easily and was picking on McCain and Reed.
Completely agree. Yes, players have to execute but it is up to the coaches to recognize their personnel and opposition and devise a gameplan accordingly. What we came out doing in the first half was EXACTLY what we did last year and got ate alive. I know the commentators try to say 'elite' QB's (though I hardly call Stafford one) but even freaking Chad Henne went off against that heavy blitz/man to man across the board package. While Henne isn't a great QB he isn't brain dead either.

If a QB has two wits of intelligence in reading a defense then that simply does not work in today's NFL on a 'consistent' basis. When we mixed it up then Rivers was forced to go through progressions. So by all means do it here and there but not every time you drop into nickle/sub packages. It's predictable. I was able to read man to man coverage when I was a freaking teenager playing a video game before I even became a cornerback. It's not hard for a veteran QB to figure it out and react quickly before the blitz can have an effect. You have to make him think and react longer than a mere 3-step drop.

So yeah execution is a part but coaching as well. You put the players in situations more in their control and their execution will benefit. We continue that way the defense will be fine. Since Locker is next we may blitz to kingdom come though.
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Old 09-12-2013   #35
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Completely agree. Yes, players have to execute but it is up to the coaches to recognize their personnel and opposition and devise a gameplan accordingly. What we came out doing in the first half was EXACTLY what we did last year and got ate alive. I know the commentators try to say 'elite' QB's (though I hardly call Stafford one) but even freaking Chad Henne went off against that heavy blitz/man to man across the board package. While Henne isn't a great QB he isn't brain dead either.

If a QB has two wits of intelligence in reading a defense then that simply does not work in today's NFL on a 'consistent' basis. When we mixed it up then Rivers was forced to go through progressions. So by all means do it here and there but not every time you drop into nickle/sub packages. It's predictable. I was able to read man to man coverage when I was a freaking teenager playing a video game before I even became a cornerback. It's not hard for a veteran QB to figure it out and react quickly before the blitz can have an effect. You have to make him think and react longer than a mere 3-step drop.

So yeah execution is a part but coaching as well. You put the players in situations more in their control and their execution will benefit. We continue that way the defense will be fine. Since Locker is next we may blitz to kingdom come though.
I think there's a little more to it.

I think that QBs who are good at reading the defense and who are accurate with the ball can pick us apart. But the WRs have to be able to make the same reads and realize when they're the hot route. Against offenses that have both the QB and receivers who can do the right thing when they read the blitz, we have problems.

We also have problems because of the Weak/Strong thing we do most of the time. Usually, when the TE shifts from one side of the line to the other, our entire front has to switch. And that takes time. Brady ate us for breakfast when we did that. He'd have the TE switch the strong/weak front and before we could get set to match up, he'd have the ball snapped. That killed us.

In the game against San Diego, we did that some but in a few cases, they swapped strong/weak and we didn't shift. We were probably in zone at those times and that made me feel better.

Hopefully, Wade has recognized the weaknesses in his own defense OR Ed Reed has pointed them out to him. And hopefully, we get better D this year.
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Old 09-12-2013   #36
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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In a 3-4 defense we don't have the outside linebacker than can put up the big numbers we need. Reed has dropped off, Mercilus.. not a proven factor yet, and we rely on Watt.

Not good, we really need someone else to step up and be a 10 sack a year guy.
That someone IS Mercilus. Geez, the guy missed pre-season, STILL has a sack and you're on his a** about it? Give him three games, then let's see if you still think he's not that 10+ sack guy.

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You don't play the ball in man coverage, you play the man.The only time you look back for the ball is if you are in perfect position, if you are in a trail position, even by 1 step, then you play the man and the hands. Man coverage is for sacks and pass breakups, zone coverage is for turnovers and big play prevention.
I guess you need to define "perfect position". If you're stride-for-stride, you'd best be looking back for the ball, especially if there's any chance of contact.
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Old 09-12-2013   #37
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

I liked the fact that the D turned it up in the 2nd half after the first drive. Having said that, the D had luck on their side as well, because a couple of key passes (which would've both gotten 1st downs for SD) were dropped by Gates and Royal.

I hope the D plays much better against the Titans.
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Old 09-12-2013   #38
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

Anyone know our philosophy on defensive audibles? Another thing Rivers was doing in the game (which the "elite QBs" are also known to do), is make alot of adjustments at the LOS. They break out of the huddle early, line up, assess the defense, and make adjustments/audibles at the LOS. In the first half, I thought Rivers was doing a good job of recognizing the blitz, where it was coming from, and how to exploit.

Anyone know if Cush, or someone else on D, has the ability to also make adjustments? If so, I don't really see it.
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Old 09-12-2013   #39
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Anyone know our philosophy on defensive audibles? Another thing Rivers was doing in the game (which the "elite QBs" are also known to do), is make alot of adjustments at the LOS. They break out of the huddle early, line up, assess the defense, and make adjustments/audibles at the LOS. In the first half, I thought Rivers was doing a good job of recognizing the blitz, where it was coming from, and how to exploit.

Anyone know if Cush, or someone else on D, has the ability to also make adjustments? If so, I don't really see it.
Cushing adjusts the front 7. Right now Manning, but it will probably become Reed, adjusts the DBs.
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Old 09-12-2013   #40
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Default Re: Thoughts About Defense

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Thoughts about defense

No me gusta lo que vimos en el primer la mitad


(Did I say that correctly ?!)
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