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Old 09-05-2013   #281
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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The last minute of the video Bush says Cush was his guy and was early in the season. Bush did say Kubiak & Smith were working the phones so he wasn't sure but when the Texans were on the clock, Bush got his man. I can see where the video is open to interpretation, I've always said, people are going to hear and see what they want to hear and see. And if they have a bias or agenda, what they see and hear usually supports their bias and/or agenda. You strongly want to believe that Rick is in charge and GM in the mold of Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome. That is simply not the case. Rick is a GM in the mold like Scott Pioli was under Bill Belichick.
I'm fine with that. It doesn't make sense to me that every coach is going to know every player & it doesn't make sense to me that a GM is going to get players that the coaches don't want.

But if it's in Kubiak's contract that he has the last word, it doesn't really matter.

As far as Cushing goes, I did wonder how they made that choice. I wanted ReyRey... Bloodline would have made sense. We had our pick of the litter & I thought Cush was the least likely to be a Texan.
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Old 09-05-2013   #282
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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I'm fine with that. It doesn't make sense to me that every coach is going to know every player & it doesn't make sense to me that a GM is going to get players that the coaches don't want.

But if it's in Kubiak's contract that he has the last word, it doesn't really matter.

As far as Cushing goes, I did wonder how they made that choice. I wanted ReyRey... Bloodline would have made sense. We had our pick of the litter & I thought Cush was the least likely to be a Texan.
I'm with you, I was really hoping they would draft Matthews, I'm also a DNA proponent. At the time, the Texans highest priority was a pass rusher and Matthews made the most sense to me. The other reason I wanted Matthews so badly was his 1.49 10 yd split (aka DeMarcus Ware territory). Cushing was often standing on the sidelines during passing downs and replaced Kaluka Maiava while at USC. As a pass rusher Cushing didn't make the best sense to me.

I am also from the school of thought that in most cases you have to go with scouts recommendations vs coaches (aka NYG, GB, BAL). Scouts evaluate talent 60-80 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Trust the scout.
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Old 09-05-2013   #283
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Kubiak used the same we language language when interviewed. As you say, any coach interviewed is going to act excited.



Not on this team. Kubiak has final say. It's in his contract. That said, the process as a whole is always collaborative.
This is what I've always heard about the Texans draft too. It's a collaborative effort among the Coaches, GM, and even the Scouts have some say. And, logically, doesn't that make the most sense? What good would it do the team if the GM never listened to what the Coaches wanted and got players that don't fit their style of play? Or, what good would it do the team if the the Coaches didn't listen to the Scouts about the players they want to draft?

Ultimately, it has to be a collaborative effort among the group to pick the players that best fit what your team does. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Oakland or Dallas where one man controls everything. This may work for awhile, but sooner or later it fails, depending on the age, experience, health, or senility of the controller. Now, Kubes may have final say on the draft pick, but I'm sure he does this after conferring with everyone involved, and he probably defers to Wade or Rick on defensive players.
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Old 09-05-2013   #284
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Ultimately, it has to be a collaborative effort among the group to pick the players that best fit what your team does. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Oakland or Dallas where one man controls everything. This may work for awhile, but sooner or later it fails, depending on the age, experience, health, or senility of the controller.
I think where it fell of is that those two owners stopped selling their dream to their organization. If you read anything on Al Davis, or even watch the documentaries, he was an amazing man. & Jerrah was driven.

When they were at the top of their game, they could sell ice to an eskimo & that's how, I believe, they earned their Super Bowls.

But after so much success, they began selling their organizations to the public & while there are die hard Raider fans every where & the Cowboys continue to collect bank..... it seems everyone outside those organizations believe in them way more than the people inside the organizations.
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Old 09-05-2013   #285
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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This is what I've always heard about the Texans draft too. It's a collaborative effort among the Coaches, GM, and even the Scouts have some say. And, logically, doesn't that make the most sense?...
If you hate Rick Smith, the coaches made the selections of our best players and Smith selected our busts.

If you hate Kubiak, Rick or the coordinators or the scouts selected our best players and Kubiak selected our busts.

If you hate Smith & Kubiak, they selected our busts and McNair & coordinators & scouts selected our best players.

Same goes for hirings/firings, and Bob McNair. Simple.
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Old 09-05-2013   #286
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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If you hate Rick Smith, the coaches made the selections of our best players and Smith selected our busts.

If you hate Kubiak, Rick or the coordinators or the scouts selected our best players and Kubiak selected our busts.

If you hate Smith & Kubiak, they selected our busts and McNair & coordinators & scouts selected our best players.

Same goes for hirings/firings, and Bob McNair. Simple.
It's not a love or hate thing. It's a clarification. Some contend Smith has complete, full and total control. Others like me say no, Kubiak has Final say. Smith is a GM in the mold of Scott Pioli when he was working for Bill Belichick. Based on this definition, Smith does not get credit for Watt and Cushing. Therefore Smith also doesn't get the credit for Okoye and Ahman Green. I think it fairly clear that Ahman Green was a Mike Sherman/Gary Kubiak decision and Rick Smith made it happen. And this is one the better examples of how the Texans front office most commonly operates.
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Old 09-05-2013   #287
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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It's not a love or hate thing. It's a clarification. Some contend Smith has complete, full and total control. Others like me say no, Kubiak has Final say. Smith is a GM in the mold of Scott Pioli when he was working for Bill Belichick. Based on this definition, Smith does not get credit for Watt and Cushing. Therefore Smith also doesn't get the credit for Okoye and Ahman Green. I think it fairly clear that Ahman Green was a Mike Sherman/Gary Kubiak decision and Rick Smith made it happen. And this is one the better examples of how the Texans front office most commonly operates.
I think you're creating a strawman. I don't know of anyone who has said that Smith has complete, full, and total control.

I don't think anyone has complete, full, and total control in this FO. I don't think it works that way. I see this FO as a collaboration. Everyone has a job and the whole thing is, as Rick Smith has said, a process.

With Ahman Green, same thing. The Texans needed a running back, Mike Sherman had personal experience with Ahman and said he was great and still had tread on his tires. I don't think there was a lot of push-back from either Smith or Kubiak because I think they were both on-board with the call. I don't see that as Sherman and/or Kubiak making the decision and ordering Smith to make it happen.

During the draft process, I believe the team identifies the areas they want to focus on. Rick gets a list of the types of players the coaching staff wants and is looking for then he and his scouts come back with options. Then the coordinators and position coaches respond with the guys they think best fit their system and the guys they really want to have.

Did Frank Bush get his guy? Yeah. But that wasn't because that pick was "given" to Frank Bush. If things had played out differently, Smith would have gone another route.

In the draft room, Smith has a lot of control. He's the one making the trades. He's the one figuring out if they can get their guy later or if they have to move up to get him. Or if there's a bunch of guys so someone will drop to them.

If you recall the Duane Brown draft, Smith traded back and was considering trading back again because he thought maybe he could still get Brown a few picks later (the Chargers were reportedly considering Brown with the next pick). After the draft, Kubiak talked about how nerve-wracking that was. He just wanted to draft the guy and get it over with and it was bad enough with Smith trading back once. BUT... he's not the guy determining who they want to draft. Was Duane Brown a Gibbs call? Yeah. But it was still Smith working the draft and figuring out where they could get Duane and maximize their other options.
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Old 09-05-2013   #288
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Smile Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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I think you're creating a strawman. I don't know of anyone who has said that Smith has complete, full, and total control. There are a few that's what started this conversation.

I don't think anyone has complete, full, and total control in this FO.Bob McNair does and Kubiak has FINAL say on 53 man roster (players). Believe it or not, there is a chain of command. I don't think it works that way. I see this FO as a collaboration. Everyone has a job and the whole thing is, as Rick Smith has said, a process.

With Ahman Green, same thing. The Texans needed a running back, Mike Sherman had personal experience with Ahman and said he was great and still had tread on his tires. I don't think there was a lot of push-back from either Smith or Kubiak because I think they were both on-board with the call. I don't see that as Sherman and/or Kubiak making the decision and ordering Smith to make it happen. That's what happen but ordered might be a bit strong

During the draft process, I believe the team identifies the areas they want to focus on. Rick gets a list of the types of players the coaching staff wants and is looking for then he and his scouts come back with options. Then the coordinators and position coaches respond with the guys they think best fit their system and the guys they really want to have.Pretty Much, unlike GB and BAL were GM & Scouts do most of the heavy lifting and unlike Jerah and Al were it is/was a 1 man show.

Did Frank Bush get his guy? Yeah. But that wasn't because that pick was "given" to Frank Bush. If things had played out differently, Smith would have gone another route.

In the draft room, Smith has a lot of control. He's the one making the trades. He's the one figuring out if they can get their guy later or if they have to move up to get him. Or if there's a bunch of guys so someone will drop to them.

If you recall the Duane Brown draft, Smith traded back and was considering trading back again because he thought maybe he could still get Brown a few picks later (the Chargers were reportedly considering Brown with the next pick). After the draft, Kubiak talked about how nerve-wracking that was. He just wanted to draft the guy and get it over with and it was bad enough with Smith trading back once. BUT... he's not the guy determining who they want to draft. Was Duane Brown a Gibbs call? Yeah. But it was still Smith working the draft and figuring out where they could get Duane and maximize their other options.
You get no argument from me about Smith working the phones and orchestrating the draft room. We're also in agreement with Duane Brown getting drafted. Gibbs wanted him at 18 and it was Rick Smith who said we could get him later. Now, who is responsible for passing on Flacco?
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Old 09-05-2013   #289
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You get no argument from me about Smith working the phones and orchestrating the draft room. We're also in agreement with Duane Brown getting drafted. Gibbs wanted him at 18 and it was Rick Smith who said we could get him later. Now, who is responsible for passing on Flacco?
I think the point alot of people in here are making is that each pick is a collaborative effort, no one guy picked a specific player. You make it sound like Gibbs wanted Duane, thus he deserves all of the credit. Nope... Kubiak has to buy off on the pick, so does Rick. None of us really knows anything unless you were in the draft war room.
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Old 09-05-2013   #290
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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I think the point alot of people in here are making is that each pick is a collaborative effort, no one guy picked a specific player. You make it sound like Gibbs wanted Duane, thus he deserves all of the credit. Nope... Kubiak has to buy off on the pick, so does Rick. None of us really knows anything unless you were in the draft war room.
I make it sound like....glad it's coming through loud and clear....my position hasn't changed.....Gibbs wanted Brown, Bush wanted Cushing, Wade wanted Watt & Mercilus.

Just to be clear IMHO, Kubiak signed off on Gibbs, Bush & Wade's picks and Smith made it happened.

Kubiak was so happy to get Gibbs as a coach. Kubiak couldn't believe his good luck. Gibbs called Kubiak about a job and Kubiak promised him anything he needed to get the run game turned around. Steve Slaton is another player that was hand picked by Gibbs. In 09' the D was so bad Kubiak was happy to give Frank whatever Frank thought he needed...(How many times have you heard Kubiak say that)...Kubiak was carrying out McNair's promises to Wade to become DC. The collaborated effort is Kubiak gives his coaches the leeway to make the important decisions and it's Smith's job to make it all happen. If you think about it for a moment, that is DEFINITELY Kubiak's style.
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Old 09-05-2013   #291
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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In 09' the D was so bad Kubiak was happy to give Frank whatever Frank thought he needed...
The 2009 D was the best one the Texans had until Wade got here (you could argue 2004).
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Old 10-06-2013   #292
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

Have not read all posts but I disagree with title.

Maybe he has gotten the minor/small decisions correct but he has missed on the ones that determine greatness.
1. Gk is still here.
2. Ms was extended
3. I still say not trading Mario was big because with the money saved would have kept us out of salary cap HELL.

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-06-2013   #293
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3. I still say not trading Mario was big because with the money saved would have kept us out of salary cap HELL.

Just my opinion.
We didn't get to cap hell until after Mario was gone.
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Old 10-06-2013   #294
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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We didn't get to cap hell until after Mario was gone.
If we had trade Mario we would have had millions to use to lessen the cap hell.

Do you think Smith is a good GM?
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Old 10-06-2013   #295
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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If we had trade Mario we would have had millions to use to lessen the cap hell.

Do you think Smith is a good GM?
Help me understand. The first year of cap hell was the first year we didn't have Mario.

We didn't sign Mario, cut Winston, didn't sign Briesel, traded Demeco.... Mario's millions had nothing to do with it. The last year of Mario, we were pretty good cap wise.

I think Rick Smith is a GM that does what he's told. "These are the players we want, make it happen." I think he & the scouting department have done a good job of keeping the talent on this team fresh. I think he's been good at reinforcing the company line.

Yes, he's a good GM. Not in the vein of the dude in Greenbay, or Baltimore, or Indy. He's not that kind of GM.
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Old 10-06-2013   #296
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Help me understand. The first year of cap hell was the first year we didn't have Mario.

We didn't sign Mario, cut Winston, didn't sign Briesel, traded Demeco.... Mario's millions had nothing to do with it. The last year of Mario, we were pretty good cap wise.

I think Rick Smith is a GM that does what he's told. "These are the players we want, make it happen." I think he & the scouting department have done a good job of keeping the talent on this team fresh. I think he's been good at reinforcing the company line.

Yes, he's a good GM. Not in the vein of the dude in Greenbay, or Baltimore, or Indy. He's not that kind of GM.
You make the trade before the season starts and you free up cap money immediately and use that to redo contracts.
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Old 10-06-2013   #297
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You make the trade before the season starts and you free up cap money immediately and use that to redo contracts.
I'm not seeing how that would have helped us for 2010. None of the Mario money would have been available to help us then. Trading him before 2009, whose contract would you have redone & how would that have helped us in 2010 when we lost most of our talent due to the cap?

They were wrong, bottom line. They thought the cap was going to increase significantly for 2010. They probably would have made Mario an offer then, we'd have kept Winston (which I wouldn't have liked at $5M regardless of the cap) we probably would have kept Dressen.

I don't see how trading Mario in 2009 would have helped that. I'm not being argumentative, I truly would like to understand what you're thinking.
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Old 10-06-2013   #298
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I'm not seeing how that would have helped us for 2010. None of the Mario money would have been available to help us then. Trading him before 2009, whose contract would you have redone & how would that have helped us in 2010 when we lost most of our talent due to the cap?

They were wrong, bottom line. They thought the cap was going to increase significantly for 2010. They probably would have made Mario an offer then, we'd have kept Winston (which I wouldn't have liked at $5M regardless of the cap) we probably would have kept Dressen.

I don't see how trading Mario in 2009 would have helped that. I'm not being argumentative, I truly would like to understand what you're thinking.
It would not have made us any better in the year we made the trade.
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Old 10-06-2013   #299
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

Schaub and Bullock offset any good Rick Smith has done.
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Old 10-06-2013   #300
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS View Post
Schaub and Bullock offset any good Rick Smith has done.
Hard to argue
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