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Old 08-27-2013   #61
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Just as a reminder, Lance Berkman tore his ACL playing flag football in 2004.
To be fair, baseball players tear ACLs by playing with kids or walking outside.
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Old 08-27-2013   #62
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

the hate that swearinger is getting can only be described with several 4 letter words. a defensive back going low to tackle a +80lb tightend has been the way of life for decades. with the focus on not hitting high from defensive backs (against receivers lowering themselves), their only resource is to go low. to have a problem with it is bullshtuff.

the crawling-kneecap block against williams however is exactly why cushing rule was added. there is zero need to blindside a defensive player in the knees. the only cut block i'm ok with is within a second of the snap ... after that you get your hands on the guy. if you have to resort to submarining a defender, you dont belong past the LOS.
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Old 08-27-2013   #63
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

Flag Football, here we come.
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The NFL will keep a close eye on hits to the knees of defenseless players this season, with the possibility of extending the rules protecting such players.

If the league's competition committee finds enough evidence this season that hits to the knees are ''becoming a problem,'' it could take action, chief of football operations Ray Anderson told The Associated Press on Tuesday.


The committee could make a recommendation to the owners next March to prohibit direct hits to the knees of defenseless players. The owners would then vote on such a change.
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Old 08-27-2013   #64
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Old 08-28-2013   #65
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.
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Old 08-28-2013   #66
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.
Anyone can express their personal opinions for sure. Mine is that that was a CS hit. He could have stayed high and accomplished his goal without the risk of injuring the guy. I think it's inexcusable.

But like all things football many folks see things many different ways. I can almost be assured that if that hit was on one of our guys the sentiment would be entirely different.
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Old 08-29-2013   #67
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.


Most of these guys are either locked up with their man or tracking the ball carrier. Im not really sure how you would expect him to follow the ball carrier and turn his head 90 degrees from where the ball is to make sure someone isnt going to take his knee out.
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Old 08-29-2013   #68
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Most of these guys are either locked up with their man or tracking the ball carrier. Im not really sure how you would expect him to follow the ball carrier and turn his head 90 degrees from where the ball is to make sure someone isnt going to take his knee out.
This is why I said that I understood that it was just a small, slow-motion clip. None of these guys are locked up with their man. Three of them have the ball carrier dead to rights, a fourth is too wide to get in on the fun, Williams is jogging across the screen away from the ball carrier and #33 is standing there watching it all happen. From the look of the clip William's head is turned toward the ball carrier but he's moving away from him toward the sideline. Had the player who hit him went higher he'd have still been obliterated. He didn't even seem to be aware that he was running right into an opposing player.

Three other Vikings are making the play and Williams is no more involved in it than #33 at the bottom of the screen. They're both slowing down and watching their teammates make the tackle (from the look of this small, slow-motion clip)

It is something of a cheap shot hit. I'm not saying it isn't that. The 49er isn't a little guy. He could have just wiped out Williams or avoided contact entirely (might have in the regular season but who knows, preseason, jobs on the line maybe?) but he didn't.

But I've heard for years almost every season when someone gets blown up like this that you have to protect yourself out there and be aware that until the whistle is heard you can get hit, blocked, or hurt. It's just a bad idea to be jogging into the path of another player without looking where you're going during an NFL play. Nothing good comes from that.
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Old 08-29-2013   #69
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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This is why I said that I understood that it was just a small, slow-motion clip. None of these guys are locked up with their man. Three of them have the ball carrier dead to rights, a fourth is too wide to get in on the fun, Williams is jogging across the screen away from the ball carrier and #33 is standing there watching it all happen. From the look of the clip William's head is turned toward the ball carrier but he's moving away from him toward the sideline. Had the player who hit him went higher he'd have still been obliterated. He didn't even seem to be aware that he was running right into an opposing player.

Three other Vikings are making the play and Williams is no more involved in it than #33 at the bottom of the screen. They're both slowing down and watching their teammates make the tackle (from the look of this small, slow-motion clip)

It is something of a cheap shot hit. I'm not saying it isn't that. The 49er isn't a little guy. He could have just wiped out Williams or avoided contact entirely (might have in the regular season but who knows, preseason, jobs on the line maybe?) but he didn't.

But I've heard for years almost every season when someone gets blown up like this that you have to protect yourself out there and be aware that until the whistle is heard you can get hit, blocked, or hurt. It's just a bad idea to be jogging into the path of another player without looking where you're going during an NFL play. Nothing good comes from that.


Its pretty clear from the short clip even that he and the back were running in the same direction and the back reverses course/cuts back and thus when his knee gets blown up the runner isnt headed that way anymore
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Old 08-29-2013   #70
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Its pretty clear from the short clip even that he and the back were running in the same direction and the back reverses course/cuts back and thus when his knee gets blown up the runner isnt headed that way anymore
That's not clear at all but you would argue with a rock if someone came by every now and then and turned the rock over to make it appear interested.

The clip begins with the back move to the left side of screen (from our perspective) and Williams moving to the right side of the screen. He doesn't change direction at all. He stops and then steps backwards.
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Old 08-29-2013   #71
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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That's not clear at all but you would argue with a rock if someone came by every now and then and turned the rock over to make it appear interested.

The clip begins with the back move to the left side of screen (from our perspective) and Williams moving to the right side of the screen. He doesn't change direction at all. He stops and then steps backwards.


Watch it again and see how many Vikings are moving to the right at the start and the back is moving to his leftp/planting and comes back to his right.
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Old 08-29-2013   #72
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Watch it again and see how many Vikings are moving to the right at the start and the back is moving to his leftp/planting and comes back to his right.
What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.

The reason I get tired of talking to you is that you will find a quibbling detail in a post and then sidetrack the entire conversation over it. **** gets old man. Back to the ignore list you go. May I never be foolish enough to remove you from it again.
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Old 08-29-2013   #73
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.
you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.
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Old 08-29-2013   #74
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.
So you're saying this is kind of like blaming a victim because she dressed like a tramp?
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Old 08-30-2013   #75
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.

The reason I get tired of talking to you is that you will find a quibbling detail in a post and then sidetrack the entire conversation over it. **** gets old man. Back to the ignore list you go. May I never be foolish enough to remove you from it again.



You cant watch the ball and watch everyone around you. So despite your best advice that his situational awarness should be better it is not always practicle given the many angles things can come from and the speed in which this game moves.


The reason you get tired is because you bring up stupid **** and if someone points it out you cant admit you are incorrrect. Go back and read my first response to you and you will see there is nothing to get your panties twisted yet you got there anyhow
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Old 08-30-2013   #76
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.
That's wasn't much force.

Keep your head on a swivel isn't just an old wives tale. That guy wasn't trying to injure him, he was trying to get him on the ground.

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Old 08-30-2013   #77
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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You cant watch the ball and watch everyone around you. S
See below.

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Keep your head on a swivel isn't just an old wives tale.
Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.
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Old 08-30-2013   #78
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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See below.



Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.


And it is a good saying just not all that realistic that it can be done all the time. Look at how many vikings are locked on the back its 4-5 and they arent looking to their right or left to see if someone is about to blow them up.

As an aside I dont mind him getting hit I just dont like to see the knee getting jammed like it did
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Old 08-30-2013   #79
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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See below.



Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.
Yes, that's the only point I've tried to make. I'm picturing Chad Clifton and Warren Sapp (which was of course up high) but very similar in that Clifton was watching the play and not his immediate surroundings. I remember watching a Texans player blow up a guy on an interception return when we played the Raiders in Reliant Stadium years ago. That clip was posted often. Keep that head on a swivel because ultimately no one can protect you out there but you.
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Old 08-30-2013   #80
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Default Re: Dustin Keller injury... wow

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Yes, that's the only point I've tried to make. I'm picturing Chad Clifton and Warren Sapp (which was of course up high) but very similar in that Clifton was watching the play and not his immediate surroundings. I remember watching a Texans player blow up a guy on an interception return when we played the Raiders in Reliant Stadium years ago. That clip was posted often. Keep that head on a swivel because ultimately can protect you out there but you.


I believe the nfl made a rule change about blowing people up on int returns
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