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Old 08-23-2013   #601
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
As I previously posted before. This is not Hopkins' first concussion. Most are not aware that he sustained a concussion during an auto accident the end of 2011, just before the Orange Bowl. The handful of media that did report it, reported it as a "mild" concussion. They should have done a better job of investigating the incident. Despite the fact that he was allowed to play in the Bowl game within a week of the injury and did well, he did NOT sustain a "minor" concussion...........he sustained full loss of consciousness. Here is the eye witness account by his own receivers coach, Jeff Scott.



The sad thing is that the NCAA to this day, despite all the NFL emphasis and rules and protocols established for concussed players, does not have nor follow a truly standardized protocol for return to play. And if they had had one, there would have been no way the a player that had been totally knocked unconscious would have been allowed to play that early.............whether the concussion was sustained on the field or otherwise.

No matter how one wants to look at it, this is Hopkins' SECOND significant concussion, and he thus carries a 2-4 times chance of sustaining a third.
The NCAA has demonstrated that their rules and standards do not exist for the benefit of the players. Until they start getting sued like the NFL -- which they won't -- they really don't care about their well being.
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Old 08-23-2013   #602
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So what symptoms are we talking about? Are these symptoms he can easily hide, or is there some kind of objective measurement of them?
Here's a list of possible symptoms -- click for larger

His symptoms will be graded through each Stage listed above...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

II.Performing light physical activity (e.g., walking) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

III.Performing sport-specific activities (e.g., running) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

IV.Participating in non-contact practice (e.g., sprinting, passing the ball, also weight lifting) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

V.Participating in full-contact practice without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours
If symptoms recur, the player must rest for 24 hours before resuming the process one step lower than when symptoms returned.
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Old 08-23-2013   #603
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So what symptoms are we talking about? Are these symptoms he can easily hide, or is there some kind of objective measurement of them?
There are many baseline tests given to all of the players before the season begins. One of those important tests include the IMPACT test [CLICK HERE TO SEE THE ACTUAL TEST]. It is the tool used to first assess potential concussions right after they are suspected. Other tests are given that test colors, shapes and memory association combinations. There are audio and visual light tests given. There are numerous computer programs that the players are presented with to test reflexes and timed cognitive responses. These are all compared to the baseline levels/scores established during these tests given before the season began. This is all above and beyond the comparative physical and psychological testing performed by the team doctors and neurologist that are performed at regular intervals.

The process, if followed as intended, is so complicated that it is pretty well accepted that it would be virtually impossible to fake "recovery."

Hope that answers your questions.
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Old 08-24-2013   #604
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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I was about to ask about the stages the NFL uses, thanks for posting. MSR
I got him for ya.

...and for me too
Always educational.
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Old 08-24-2013   #605
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
There are many baseline tests given to all of the players before the season begins. One of those important tests include the IMPACT test [CLICK HERE TO SEE THE ACTUAL TEST]. It is the tool used to first assess potential concussions right after they are suspected. Other tests are given that test colors, shapes and memory association combinations. There are audio and visual light tests given. There are numerous computer programs that the players are presented with to test reflexes and timed cognitive responses. These are all compared to the baseline levels/scores established during these tests given before the season began. This is all above and beyond the comparative physical and psychological testing performed by the team doctors and neurologist that are performed at regular intervals.

The process, if followed as intended, is so complicated that it is pretty well accepted that it would be virtually impossible to fake "recovery."

Hope that answers your questions.
Wow, that's a pretty extensive set of tests. Now is this form - this set of tests - administered during each phase?
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Old 08-24-2013   #606
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Wow, that's a pretty extensive set of tests. Now is this form - this set of tests - administered during each phase?
He can't get out of phase I because the doctor keeps falling asleep halfway through the administration of all the tests!!!??!?!
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Old 08-24-2013   #607
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Wow, that's a pretty extensive set of tests. Now is this form - this set of tests - administered during each phase?
Each type of test............the IMPACT, 5 phases of rehab, cognitive, etc.......are all independent markers. Nothing can be made of any one alone.........including clearance to play by the team doctor or team neurologist. Any one or all of the testing can be repeated anywhere along the way, should it be deemed necessary, indicated or helpful. The only "in stone" step is the final release to return to play by the INDEPENDENT League-certified neurologist.
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Old 08-24-2013   #608
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Each type of test............the IMPACT, 5 phases of rehab, cognitive, etc.......are all independent markers. Nothing can be made of any one alone.........including clearance to play by the team doctor or team neurologist. Any one or all of the testing can be repeated anywhere along the way, should it be deemed necessary, indicated or helpful. The only "in stone" step is the final release to return to play by the INDEPENDENT League-certified neurologist.
Doc, Kubiak made a comment that stages 2 and 3 can be completed in 1 day. Based on what you've learned is this the case?
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Old 08-24-2013   #609
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Doc, Kubiak made a comment that stages 2 and 3 can be completed in 1 day. Based on what you've learned is this the case?
Not the way I read that list. It looks to me to be a set of serial requirements. Doing stage two and three in the same 24-hr period would indicate that the tests can be administered in parallel. That doesn't make sense to me.

But that's me thinking like an engineer, not a doctor...
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Old 08-25-2013   #610
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Not the way I read that list. It looks to me to be a set of serial requirements. Doing stage two and three in the same 24-hr period would indicate that the tests can be administered in parallel. That doesn't make sense to me.

But that's me thinking like an engineer, not a doctor...
Yeah I know. That's why I asked. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me either, but here's the quote.

Quote:
(on if there has been any progress with WR DeAndre Hopkins) “He is still in phase one. He is feeling a lot better. In meetings today, doing a lot of stuff he wasn’t doing yesterday. I think we’re making progress and, like I said, I think you can go through phase two and three in one given day, so I think we can see some quick progress here over the weekend, but there was never any plan for him to play.”
August 23rd Practice Quotes
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Old 08-25-2013   #611
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Doc, Kubiak made a comment that stages 2 and 3 can be completed in 1 day. Based on what you've learned is this the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Not the way I read that list. It looks to me to be a set of serial requirements. Doing stage two and three in the same 24-hr period would indicate that the tests can be administered in parallel. That doesn't make sense to me.

But that's me thinking like an engineer, not a doctor...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Yeah I know. That's why I asked. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me either, but he's the quote.



August 23rd Practice Quotes

I was just about to post Kubiak's quote (given yesterday).

It doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make sense.
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Old 08-25-2013   #612
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

The important thing for me is to take care of this young man's life.

He had a serious concussion where he was knocked unconscious at the end of 2011, and now a 2nd concussion on what did not appear to be that violent of an impact.

Hold him out for as many games as he needs to get symptom free. If they push him back... if he fudges the test... his 3rd concussion could be his last as an NFL player. And the consequences likely to last years into his life.
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Old 08-25-2013   #613
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

As of this late morning, Hopkins is still in Phase I.
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Old 08-25-2013   #614
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
As of this late morning, Hopkins is still in Phase I.
is it typical to take this long for phase 1?
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Old 08-25-2013   #615
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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is it typical to take this long for phase 1?
I've seen patients stay in the equivalent of Phase I for weeks. "Minor" concussion not infrequently progress through Phase I in just a couple of days.
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Old 08-27-2013   #616
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Quote:
DeAndre Hopkins might be cleared tomorrow to return.
Deepi Sidhu ‏@DeepSlant
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Kubiak: DeAndre Hopkins in stage 4 of 5 in concussion protocol. Could play Thursday. @HoustonTexans
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Old 08-27-2013   #617
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

That's huge. He needs all the reps he can get before the lights come on.

Now the only hurdle left is him not worrying about getting hit again. Because like mentioned before, his next concussion could be his last.
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Old 08-27-2013   #618
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Cleared or not, I would sit him Thursday.
I'd give him another week of recovery time.
And give Cruse, Lemon, and EZ one last shot to stick around or at least be brought back to the P/S.
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Old 08-27-2013   #619
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Cleared or not, I would sit him Thursday.
I'd give him another week of recovery time.
And give Cruse, Lemon, and EZ one last shot to stick around or at least be brought back to the P/S.
Id make him play for a quarter or 2 but not throw to him
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Old 08-27-2013   #620
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Id make him play for a quarter or 2 but not throw to him
Really? Whats the point of putting him out there at all then?
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