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Old 08-24-2013   #581
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Yates was crap in that game. Foster ran for 158 yards, and we
still lost to a 1-14

TJ
Showing your bias right now. Foster ran for all those yards because he got the touches to do so.

Go back and look at the game log. I think Yates threw the ball under 20 times and completed almost all of his passes. He was not "terrible". Your memory is bad or selective.
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Old 08-24-2013   #582
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
No backup QB plays against 1st team defenses. If that's the criteria, no backup would ever get promoted
What? Cassel and Schaub for instance became trade targets because they started. That is very common.
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Old 08-24-2013   #583
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That makes 0 sense.

Every player in the NFL has beaten the odds.
Okay, let's assume the odds of division I football player becoming an NFL football player are 100 to 1 (I'm using this as an example - I don't know what those odds really are). That means for every player in the NFL, there's 99 who aren't. An NFL player hasn't beaten the odds, he's just proven them.
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Old 08-24-2013   #584
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Old 08-24-2013   #585
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
What? Cassel and Schaub for instance became trade targets because they started. That is very common.
They didn't face 1st team defenses in preseason until they were starters. They became starters because of injury ahead of them. So using the rationale that they aren't any good because they haven't faced 1st team defenses is just silly. No one gets a chance until they get a chance. Coaches don't put backups out there against 1st team defenses just to check them out. They do it when they have to, and not before.
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Old 08-24-2013   #586
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Bias? I just call a spade a spade. I'm not willing to call Yates
a good QB just because he limped possibly the best Texans team
into the playoffs..

Against Indy he was 13-16 for 132 yds, no touchdowns and a
fumble. He had the better team on the field and was beaten
and outplayed by Dan Orlovsky.

If Keenum has a better preseason than Yates, he deserves
to move up the depth chart.

Nothing Yates has done so far (in the regular season) has been
so overwhelming or amazing that it deserves special consideration.

I believe Gary will carry 3 QB's this year so, in terms of remaining
with the team, none of this matters. However, I believe you reward guys
based on their perfornance.

If Keenum looks better than Yates over the next two games, he
should be #2. If Yates looks better than Keenum over the next
two games then Yates should be #2.

Simple as that.
TJ


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Showing your bias right now. Foster ran for all those yards because he got the touches to do so.

Go back and look at the game log. I think Yates threw the ball under 20 times and completed almost all of his passes. He was not "terrible". Your memory is bad or selective.
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Old 08-24-2013   #587
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
My beef with Yates performance was that it simply wasn't very good.
Honestly, so many folks on here have selective memory about 2011.

He was average to serviceable during the regular season, and horrific
against Indy and the playoffs against Baltimore. I don't get the
logic of pinning the first Bengals playoff win on him when JJ made the
play that broke the game open.

The 2011 Texans could run the ball really well and played much
better defense than the Texans teams of 2012 and today.

Saying that Yates "has to be" the defacto #2 because of his playoff
experience, etc. is senseless to me when he was so average against
Cincy and so aweful against Baltimore.

People can remember the end of 2011 however they want, but the
bitter taste in my mouth from the way that season ended is still
there - in part - because of Yates..

And, please, don't give me this B.S. about being called into service
without a full playbook. "yadda yadda". Yates played in a system
very similar to Gary's at N.C. (for multiple years), and if it was
such a complicated system to learn Keenum would not have been
able to pick it up in one season holding a clipboard. (given his
collegiate experience was in a system 180 degrees out of phase)

Either Gary's approach isn't rocket science, or Keenum is some
type of "playbook savant"

After all, from where I sit, there is almost no distinguishable difference
between Yates and Keenum, and Yates has been doing this a much
longer time.

TJ
Agreed.
If Yates has soooo much experience due to "his" playoff win, why isn't he pushing Schaub at this point instead of being pushed himself by an UDFA??

For the record, I think Yates and Keenum are on equal footing as far as the 2013 season is concerned. I would think (hope) Yates has the edge where knowledge of our system is concerned and where reading NFL defenses is concerned; he's been here the longest so he'd better. Keenum seems to have an edge - just from the old eyeball test - when things go "off script" and he has to improvise.

Still a dead heat IMHO. And a tie goes to the incumbent. JMO.
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Old 08-25-2013   #588
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
actually, the Packers did just that intentionally last night with Harrell. that is not the norm, but Rodgers was pulled against the Seahawks after a series and Harrell came in for the rest of the 1st half.
The Colts used to do the same thing with Peyton, back when their defense sucked, hardly had a running game, and the entire team's success was tied to him... preseason was spent mostly on Jim Sorgi. Elite QBs are treated differently... Schaub is not elite.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
One of the battles the Case is facing with Yates is exact that...Kubiak saw Yates not fall totally apart again real NFL defenses. The offense went conservative and Yates was pretty meh from a big picture NFL QBing perspective, but given the situation Yates did better than expected. May or may not be totally fair, Keenum has to legitimately outplay Yates based the "experience" of Yates against real competition. Thought this was pretty obvious.
I disagree, if that was the case, then Yates would've been the first off the bench in every preseason game we've played. This is the first time I can remember that Kubiak has rotated equal playing time between two QBs and has openly discussed a open competition at the position. I think a lot of posters here are hanging on to that "experience" two years ago than Kubiak is.. honestly I don't even think Kubiak is even thinking about that right now, if he was he'd already have his mind set on his #2 QB. If Case outplays Yates, he'll be listed the back up, experience from two years ago will hardly be a factor, I mean it's not like Yates set the world on fire or had that many starts and it happened two years ago. Both of these QBs are still wet behind the ears as far as starting experience goes.
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Old 08-25-2013   #589
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I disagree, if that was the case, then Yates would've been the first off the bench in every preseason game we've played.

If Case outplays Yates, he'll be listed the back up...
Though the numbers are close, we've got many here that believe Case is playing better than Yates. Marginally, but definitely.

I'm assuming you're not convinced yet. I believe two weeks & a day from today, Tj Yates will be on the active day roster, Case will not. If that is the case, I'll take that to mean there never was a competition to begin with.

I'm liking what I'm seeing from Case, I like the energy, there appears to be an "it" factor, hope. But he hasn't played so well that I would ignore the benefit of experience. Nor has he played well enough that I would chance it. Though we may feel good about it we know it is more likely he'll go the way of Graham Harrell, Mark Sanchez, Matt Lienart, than Tom Brady.

I also believe when odds are better that he might be Tom Brady, he'll get the back-up job without much fanfare. Tj would be traded, or released & Case would get the job "by default." Kubiak doesn't need these preseason games to "know" how Case would do. He's seen enough. Putting him in with the 1s & 2s was for Case's benefit, to get him to where he needs to be.
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Old 08-25-2013   #590
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Jets are probably looking for a QB. Maybe we could trade them Yates.


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Old 08-25-2013   #591
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Jets are probably looking for a QB. Maybe we could trade them Yates.


How do you think Tj affects our chances of winning a Super Bowl?

I personally think we've still got a shot with Tj, not so much with Keenum. I believe this because I think the offense will stay more or less intact with Yates at the helm (if it comes to that).

I do believe Keenum to be the future of the Texans, but I see many changes to the offense for that to happen & we're in a transition period of sorts.

I think Tj covers us from a depth stand-point that our goals don't change much if something were to happen to Matt. In that respect I value Tj much higher than I believe the Jets would value Tj, especially with John Beck floating around.
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Old 08-25-2013   #592
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by Grams View Post
Jets are probably looking for a QB. Maybe we could trade them Yates.
I expect them to trade for Nick Foles, who played under Jets OC Marty Mornhinweg last year in Philly.
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Old 08-25-2013   #593
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

IMO Case should be the backup. The kid just needs a little more time, and I think he is our next QB, after Fetal Position is done.
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Old 08-25-2013   #594
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

I heard something earlier about the Jets either signing Beck or
giving him a workout recently.

Perhaps that is an indication that they would be interested in
either Yates or Keenum from a trade point of view -- don't know.

It is curious though.

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
How do you think Tj affects our chances of winning a Super Bowl?

I personally think we've still got a shot with Tj, not so much with Keenum. I believe this because I think the offense will stay more or less intact with Yates at the helm (if it comes to that).

I do believe Keenum to be the future of the Texans, but I see many changes to the offense for that to happen & we're in a transition period of sorts.

I think Tj covers us from a depth stand-point that our goals don't change much if something were to happen to Matt. In that respect I value Tj much higher than I believe the Jets would value Tj, especially with John Beck floating around.
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Old 08-25-2013   #595
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
I heard something earlier about the Jets either signing Beck or
giving him a workout recently.

Perhaps that is an indication that they would be interested in
either Yates or Keenum from a trade point of view -- don't know.

It is curious though.

TJ
Beck AND Matt Leinart, from what I saw.
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Old 08-25-2013   #596
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Beck AND Matt Leinart, from what I saw.
First, they signed 2004 Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart, a former first-round draft pick. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Later Sunday, the Bills announced they traded linebacker Chris White to the Detroit Lions for quarterback Thaddeus Lewis.

Leinart was most recently a member of the Oakland Raiders. He has started 18 games since being drafted 10th overall by the Arizona Cardinals in 2006. The 6-foot-5 USC product has completed 366 of 641 passes for 4,065 yards with 15 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in his NFL career.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,6399520.story
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Old 08-26-2013   #597
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

I was hoping Case would take a shot at the end zone at the end of the game but of course he didn't. He took the safe pass on some 3rd downs which came up short earlier also. Just on my observations I think Case is probably closer to our Cody Carlson than he is our Kurt Warner.
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Old 08-26-2013   #598
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Just on my observations I think Case is probably closer to our Cody Carlson than he is our Kurt Warner.
That's blasphemous talk around here. Have fun.
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Old 08-26-2013   #599
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I was hoping Case would take a shot at the end zone at the end of the game but of course he didn't. He took the safe pass on some 3rd downs which came up short earlier also. Just on my observations I think Case is probably closer to our Cody Carlson than he is our Kurt Warner.
I was hoping that as well, but if you notice, it doesn't matter who is in at QB; they ALL do that. They throw short of the sticks, they check down on critical downs, etc. Schaub does it, Yates does it, and now Keenum's doing it. So from that standpoint, he fits right in.
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Old 08-26-2013   #600
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I was hoping Case would take a shot at the end zone at the end of the game but of course he didn't. He took the safe pass on some 3rd downs which came up short earlier also.
He probably scored more points with Kubiak taking the safe throw than he would have throwing the ill advised into the end zone pass.

The main thing I've been trying to say through this "competition" is that what we want to see most likely won't win him the job. I believe Kubiak wants to see Case play more like Schaub than not. Schaub is the standard.

Schaub's command of this offense plus Case's intangibles are what will win him a starting job with the Texans.
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