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View Poll Results: Who should start if Matt decided not to play another down?
Tj Yates 9 9.38%
Case Keenum 48 50.00%
Schaub can't do that 10 10.42%
May the best man win 29 30.21%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2013   #161
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
Not just on here.

John McClain has been saying for weeks that Kubaik is grooming Keenum as Schaub's replacement. I don't think he's getting that from the short order cook at The Waffle House.
I'm a huge Cougar fan, but we're talking Texans here. If this is true I'm not a happy camper. I don't see either as the heir the top spot, ever.
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Old 08-15-2013   #162
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
We have yet to see any of those system guys hae a long and successful career in the NFL. There's no way I expect Kubiak to shift to that sort of system. He doesn't need to. For CASE to be successful, he has to become the perfect system QB for KUBIAK's system.

I think it's possible that he does but it's too early to say that he has. Let's let him play a few more games.
Andy Reid an a spread style offense with McNabb for a long time. I honestly don't know why more teams haven't done it.
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Old 08-15-2013   #163
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
So Keenum played 3 games against the Big 12, 1 against the SEC, 1 against the Big 10 and two against the Pac 12 in his five years with UH? I'll stick with what I said:


.
Still I wonder what's the difference between Case & guys like David Carr, or Andew Luck.

You'd think McElroy would be setting the league on fire.
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Old 08-15-2013   #164
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Still I wonder what's the difference between Case & guys like David Carr, or Andew Luck.

You'd think McElroy would be setting the league on fire.
Hard work...intelligence...talent.
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Old 08-15-2013   #165
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
Hard work...intelligence...talent.
Car & Luck work harder, are more intelligent, & have more talent than Case & McElroy?

I'm not buying it.
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Old 08-15-2013   #166
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Let me show how irrelevant your entire proposition is about
"tough competition"

Here is Virginia's performance at the time when Matt Schaub
played.

SEC 1-2
B12 0-0
P12 0-0
B10 1-2


Here's NC and T.J.'s output

SEC 1-2
B12 0-0
P12 0-0
B10 0-0
CUSA 2-1

Including powerhouse Div-1AA/Div-2 schools
james madison, william & mary, the citadel,
georgia southern, mcneese state

The only D1 opponent that I could find that
superbowl champ Joe Flacco played against was
Navy..

Like I said before, players don't set the schedule..

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
So Keenum played 3 games against the Big 12, 1 against the SEC, 1 against the Big 10 and two against the Pac 12 in his five years with UH? I'll stick with what I said:





I wasn't arguing that those Conferences had the finest QB play, but they are the highest level of collegiate football.

Last edited by speedfreek; 08-15-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 08-15-2013   #167
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Keenum played against many tier one teams than had been mentioned here in this thread. Overall, has had done quite well, if not very well.

I've already noted that if you go back and take ALL the QBs that were drafted the last several years, when they had a common opponent with Keenum (in the same year), Keenum play was on par or better than ALL of them, bar none.

If those guys can play in the NFL, so can Case.
You can call one or two games a fluke, but not a dozen game.
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Old 08-15-2013   #168
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Let me show how irrelevant your entire proposition is about
"tough competition"

Here is Virginia's performance at the time when Matt Schaub
played.

SEC 1-2
B12 0-0
P12 0-0
B10 1-2


Here's NC and T.J.'s output

SEC 1-2
B12 0-0
P12 0-0
B10 0-0
CUSA 2-1

Including powerhouse Div-1AA/Div-2 schools
james madison, william & mary, the citadel,
georgia southern, mcneese state

The only D1 opponent that I could find that
superbowl champ Joe Flacco played against was
Navy..

Like I said before, players don't set the schedule..

TJ
Irrelevant? lol I never said it was relevant to how good of a QB Keenum will become. But I wasn't saying Keenum performed on the biggest stage or at the highest level either like you did. Conference USA isn't the highest level of collegiate football.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
The biggest plus that I see with Keenum is _exactly_ the largest
weakness I see with Schaub and Yates.

Keenum chose the largest stages to perform at the highest level.
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Old 08-15-2013   #169
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Exhibit number one.

Keenum vs Oregon week 1, 2007

Oregon rose as high as number 2 in the poll before an ACL shelved Dennis Dixon and the Ducks' season.
Their offense was potent with the dual threat of Dixon and Jonanthan Stewart (remember that guy), besides TE Ed Dickson.
Their D were loaded with players that eventually got drafted and played in the NFL; for example, Ladarius Byrd, Patrick Chung, Walter Thurmond III, Will Tuikafu, T J Ward.

It was Keenum's first career game and he was in a platoon with Blake Joseph.
He was staring at a 0-14 hole when he entered the game, and managed to pull the Cougars back to a 17-17 tie, then a 20-20 tie.
The Cougars almost took the lead when Keenum threw this interception:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLG5yzh2kRc

I'm not sure I would call it a bad throw; the pass was just off.
It's also possible that the receiver didn't quite run his route properly.

The Ducks marched the field and never looked back.

The two teams traded TDs afterward, with the Ducks leading by 7 (34-27) before Dixon took the ball and ran for an 80-yd TD for a 14 point margin.

A drop by a receiver stopped the Cougars' next time; and then Joseph came back into the game. The final score was 48-27, Oregon.

Still, while Keenum was in there, the Cougars were neck to neck with the Ducks (27-27) with an inferior team on both sides of the ball.

And it was his first college game, at Oregon, no less.
That's a big stage, my friends!
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Old 08-15-2013   #170
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Hope no one takes offense; who gives a crap what they did against college defenses?

It's almost like Cowboys fans talking about 20+ yr old championships.
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Old 08-15-2013   #171
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Exhibit number one.

Keenum vs Oregon week 1, 2007

Oregon rose as high as number 2 in the poll before an ACL shelved Dennis Dixon and the Ducks' season.
Their offense was potent with the dual threat of Dixon and Jonanthan Stewart (remember that guy), besides TE Ed Dickson.
Their D were loaded with players that eventually got drafted and played in the NFL; for example, Ladarius Byrd, Patrick Chung, Walter Thurmond III, Will Tuikafu, T J Ward.

It was Keenum's first career game and he was in a platoon with Blake Joseph.
He was staring at a 0-14 hole when he entered the game, and managed to pull the Cougars back to a 17-17 tie, then a 20-20 tie.
The Cougars almost took the lead when Keenum threw this interception:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLG5yzh2kRc

I'm not sure I would call it a bad throw; the pass was just off.
It's also possible that the receiver didn't quite run his route properly.

The Ducks marched the field and never looked back.

The two teams traded TDs afterward, with the Ducks leading by 7 (34-27) before Dixon took the ball and ran for an 80-yd TD for a 14 point margin.

A drop by a receiver stopped the Cougars' next time; and then Joseph came back into the game. The final score was 48-27, Oregon.

Still, while Keenum was in there, the Cougars were neck to neck with the Ducks (27-27) with an inferior team on both sides of the ball.

And it was his first college game, at Oregon, no less.
That's a big stage, my friends!
Maybe I'm not getting my point across. I don't care what Keenum did against Oregon or Oklahoma State while he was at the University of Houston, but I think comparing those games against Yates or Schaub in the playoffs is rather weak (wasn't your argument, but another poster said it). The Patriots & Ravens have better defenses than either Oregon or Oklahoma State, so it's not comparing apples to apples.
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Old 08-15-2013   #172
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

You are not comprehending my point. (and I'm truly running out of
ways to try to explain it to you..)

I didn't say that Keenum played the national champions every week.
What I was trying to communicate to you was that when the game
was big, really mattered, or the opponent was a heavy favorite, Keenum performed in almost all instances.

This is not the case with Schaub and Yates.

I don't know if I can put it any more simply for you to understand.

Just because someone didn't play a top 5 team every week doesn't
mean they can't be a "clutch" person.

That's why I listed Flacco as an example.

If we could magically make Keenum, Yates, and Schaub all 24
year old rookies and only had their college track record to stand on
my money would be on Keenum.

Give the guy as much time in a pro-style offense as Schaub has
had and then we can evaluate whether he is a superstar or not.

Right now making absurd statements about height or arm strength,
or level of competition, blah blah blah, are baseless.

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
Irrelevant? lol I never said it was relevant to how good of a QB Keenum will become. But I wasn't saying Keenum performed on the biggest stage or at the highest level either like you did. Conference USA isn't the highest level of collegiate football.
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Old 08-15-2013   #173
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Keenum almost rallied the cougars back from a 20 point deficit to
beat Saban's first bama team as well. (and I believe Keenum was
a freshman/red shirt as well)

Regardless of the talent around him (at whatever level) the guy
just managed to step it up.

I hope it can translate to the NFL, because if it does I think the guy
could eventually help us win a championship..

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Exhibit number one.

Keenum vs Oregon week 1, 2007

Oregon rose as high as number 2 in the poll before an ACL shelved Dennis Dixon and the Ducks' season.
Their offense was potent with the dual threat of Dixon and Jonanthan Stewart (remember that guy), besides TE Ed Dickson.
Their D were loaded with players that eventually got drafted and played in the NFL; for example, Ladarius Byrd, Patrick Chung, Walter Thurmond III, Will Tuikafu, T J Ward.

It was Keenum's first career game and he was in a platoon with Blake Joseph.
He was staring at a 0-14 hole when he entered the game, and managed to pull the Cougars back to a 17-17 tie, then a 20-20 tie.
The Cougars almost took the lead when Keenum threw this interception:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLG5yzh2kRc

I'm not sure I would call it a bad throw; the pass was just off.
It's also possible that the receiver didn't quite run his route properly.

The Ducks marched the field and never looked back.

The two teams traded TDs afterward, with the Ducks leading by 7 (34-27) before Dixon took the ball and ran for an 80-yd TD for a 14 point margin.

A drop by a receiver stopped the Cougars' next time; and then Joseph came back into the game. The final score was 48-27, Oregon.

Still, while Keenum was in there, the Cougars were neck to neck with the Ducks (27-27) with an inferior team on both sides of the ball.

And it was his first college game, at Oregon, no less.
That's a big stage, my friends!
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Old 08-15-2013   #174
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Exhibit number two.

Case Keenum vs Alabama - 2007

Four weeks later, the Cougars faced Saban's Tides in Tuscaloosa.
It doesn't get any bigger than that.
His team would have players suspended before SEC play for violations of NCAA rules, but against the Cougars, they were stacked.

That D eventually have too many players that were drafted or played in the NFL after going undrafted. The drafted players are as followed:
Brandon Deaderick, Josh Chapman, Rolando McClain, Rashad Johnson, Marquis Johnson, Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas, and Ramzee Robinson.

Keenum came in with 6:35 left in the third quarter, facing a 7-23 deficit.
He almost pulled out the game, but the Cougars lost by 6 (24-30),
He had led the offense to the 3 yard line of the Tides.
With no time left on the clock, Keenum threw an INT in the end zone.
I was not at the game, so I can't tell how it happened.
It was still a heck of an effort by Keenum though.

He actually gained 10 points for the Coogs when he was in there.
Who knows what could happen had he played more.
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Old 08-15-2013   #175
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
The Patriots & Ravens have better defenses than either Oregon or Oklahoma State, so it's not comparing apples to apples.
If this is your argument, then none of the QBs that ever became a starter in the NFL proved diddly squat in college.
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Old 08-15-2013   #176
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Are we really digging thru Kennum's college games to justify his pro ability? He's in the pros now. If he proves he has NFL ability, Kennum will get an opportunity. If not here, somewhere.
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Old 08-15-2013   #177
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Car & Luck work harder, are more intelligent, & have more talent than Case & McElroy?

I'm not buying it.
I don't know what you mean, Luck is miles above all these guys.

Him & Carr may have similar physical talents but Luck's football IQ and his work ethic obviously are way beyond guys like Carr and McElroy. The jury is out on Case, but he obviously has the talent.
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Old 08-15-2013   #178
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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If this is your argument, then none of the QBs that ever became a starter in the NFL proved diddly squat in college.
I'm not saying Keenum didn't prove anything in college. He set records in College. I'm saying comparing his games against Oklahoma State or Oregon vs. Yates against the Ravens is weak.
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Old 08-15-2013   #179
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
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Are we really digging thru Kennum's college games to justify his pro ability? He's in the pros now. If he proves he has NFL ability, Kennum will get an opportunity. If not here, somewhere.
People are pointing out to speedfreak that Keenum did not in fact have magical performances in every big game in his career no matter how much he might try to marginalize below average performances in conference championships or whatnot. I didn't even have to dig because I know Keenum never won a championship in C-USA and had been there at least once or twice.

I'm not a Keenum hater, I hope he does succeed against the almost insurmountable odds against him. But trying to paint him as the savior of the Houston Texans when there is very very very little footage of him against NFL players is silly.
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Old 08-15-2013   #180
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Keenum almost rallied the cougars back from a 20 point deficit to
beat Saban's first bama team as well. (and I believe Keenum was
a freshman/red shirt as well)

Regardless of the talent around him (at whatever level) the guy
just managed to step it up.

I hope it can translate to the NFL, because if it does I think the guy
could eventually help us win a championship..

TJ
I always wonder who you are talking to until I scroll down and see you put your answer over what you are responding to, backwards.
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