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View Poll Results: Who should start if Matt decided not to play another down?
Tj Yates 9 9.38%
Case Keenum 48 50.00%
Schaub can't do that 10 10.42%
May the best man win 29 30.21%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2013   #101
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

The biggest plus that I see with Keenum is _exactly_ the largest
weakness I see with Schaub and Yates.

Keenum chose the largest stages to perform at the highest level.
He was amazing in games against ranked teams (in college) when
UH was a heavy underdog.

I can think of at least 3 games in particular where UH was a
double-digit dog and he threw excellent percentages and had
very few turnovers. .. Many times on the road no less..
(You can probably find his game against #5 Ok. St. in
Stillwater on youtube)

Stepping up and beating the big-dog was his modus operandi. And
that is 180 degrees out of phase with Schaub and Yates.

Two of the worst games I've ever seen them play were their
two divisional round playoff games. Schaub was _ATROCIOUS_
against the Patriots, and Yates was _DISGRACEFUL_ against
Baltimore. (and in both cases they were surrounded by a team
with similar talent as their competition)

Many times Keenum had to win with smaller, slower, and physically
overmatched teammates.

It's more than just the "IT" factor.

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
If I have time, I'll look into this further.

For now, here's a quick comparison.

Keenum 19,217 passing yards on 2,229 attempts.
Chang 17,027 on 2,436.
Big difference.

Keenum 69.36 completion percentage.
Chang 57 per cent.
Another big difference.

Keenum's TD-INT ratio 155/46
Chang 117/80
Huge difference.

Keenum was a heck more accurate and efficient than Chang.
There's no comparison, really.
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Old 08-14-2013   #102
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
...though in truth I doubt either would be called upon to 'lead' the team in a way that we rely on them heavily. You're more likely to see more ball control and pounding the rock.
If that's the case (no pun intended), the Kubiak failed. If we go with a watered down system for either of these guys, Tj especially, he failed.

Schaub was running this system well his first season as starter. Carr ran the system with some success. Rosenfels ran it more or less competently.

If he's bringing these QBs in, working with them, teaching them.... but then don't trust them when the game is on the line... he failed.
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Old 08-14-2013   #103
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Keenum netted 897 yards on the ground with 23 rushing TDs.
Chang netted a NEGATIVE 162 yards and 6 TDs.
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Old 08-14-2013   #104
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post

Keenum was a heck more accurate and efficient than Chang.
There's no comparison, really.
You're being obtuse.

Chang is a more accurate comparison that Tom Brady or Curt Warner.
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Old 08-14-2013   #105
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
Keenum chose the largest stages to perform at the highest level.
He was amazing in games against ranked teams (in college) when
UH was a heavy underdog.

TJ
Kubiak said the same thing.....
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Old 08-14-2013   #106
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

I deleted my comment
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Old 08-14-2013   #107
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
The biggest plus that I see with Keenum is _exactly_ the largest
weakness I see with Schaub and Yates.

Keenum chose the largest stages to perform at the highest level.
He was amazing in games against ranked teams (in college) when
UH was a heavy underdog.

I can think of at least 3 games in particular where UH was a
double-digit dog and he threw excellent percentages and had
very few turnovers. .. Many times on the road no less..
(You can probably find his game against #5 Ok. St. in
Stillwater on youtube)

Stepping up and beating the big-dog was his modus operandi. And
that is 180 degrees out of phase with Schaub and Yates.

Two of the worst games I've ever seen them play were their
two divisional round playoff games. Schaub was _ATROCIOUS_
against the Patriots, and Yates was _DISGRACEFUL_ against
Baltimore. (and in both cases they were surrounded by a team
with similar talent as their competition)

Many times Keenum had to win with smaller, slower, and physically
overmatched teammates.

It's more than just the "IT" factor.

TJ
You're comparing Yates and Schaub playing playoff caliber NFL teams to Keenum playing in college. There is a huge difference there.
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Old 08-14-2013   #108
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

love the fact that we have lots of threads and posts on keenum. it's a direct result to his continued success.

the pressure Case puts on TJ and Schaub is huge. Because if history repeats and Schaub can't deliver, and Case continues to work hard and keep getting better, people are going to root for putting Case in the future...maybe not this year, but Case's time will come.

There's a reason why Briles, Sumlin, Kubiak, and company think Case has something special.

You just don't shatter the NCAA's all time total passing yards, touchdowns, and completions and just call it a fluke because of his size and his spread offense he played in.
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Old 08-14-2013   #109
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

No, read my comment again.

I said Keenum was able to take an inferior team and beat a superior
team on their home turf by amazing effort.

Yates and Schaub took an equivalent team and spit the bit
and produced losses when the bright lights were on and the
game really mattered.

The ability to "will" a team to win with leadership and on-field
performance is what I was getting at, and that does not differ
at any level: pros, college, pop warner

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
You're comparing Yates and Schaub playing playoff caliber NFL teams to Keenum playing in college. There is a huge difference there.
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Old 08-14-2013   #110
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Sumlin, Holgorsen, and Kingsbury arguably owe their jobs to Keenum.
UH owes it's stadium and new conference to Keenum.

Hopefully the guy can continue to translate that to the pros...

I remember what it was like watching UH stars Olajuwon and Drexler
win a championship for the Rockets.

If UH star Keenum helps the Texans win a championship it will be
just as crazy on Richmond (maybe moreso..) and history will have
repeated itself..

TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
love the fact that we have lots of threads and posts on keenum. it's a direct result to his continued success.

the pressure Case puts on TJ and Schaub is huge. Because if history repeats and Schaub can't deliver, and Case continues to work hard and keep getting better, people are going to root for putting Case in the future...maybe not this year, but Case's time will come.

There's a reason why Briles, Sumlin, Kubiak, and company think Case has something special.

You just don't shatter the NCAA's all time total passing yards, touchdowns, and completions and just call it a fluke because of his size and his spread offense he played in.
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Old 08-14-2013   #111
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
You just don't shatter the NCAA's all time total passing yards, touchdowns, and completions and just call it a fluke because of his size and his spread offense he played in.
Actually, you kinda do.

Most of the QBs who have shattered records in college as thoroughly as Case shattered records don't translate to the NFL. Just look at Ware and Klingler or B.J. Symons or Colt Brennan or Harrell or Chang or even Tebow and Vince Young.

There's a reason why QBs like that aren't drafted as high anymore as QBs that work within a "normal" offense in college.
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Old 08-14-2013   #112
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Actually, you kinda do.

Most of the QBs who have shattered records in college as thoroughly as Case shattered records don't translate to the NFL. Just look at Ware and Klingler or B.J. Symons or Colt Brennan or Harrell or Chang or even Tebow and Vince Young.

There's a reason why QBs like that aren't drafted as high anymore as QBs that work within a "normal" offense in college.
RG3
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Old 08-14-2013   #113
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCTexan View Post
You're comparing Yates and Schaub playing playoff caliber NFL teams to Keenum playing in college. There is a huge difference there.
Huge difference for sure.

One of the things I talked about the offense needing, was better pedigree. Some people expect to win everything, but then there are guys who achieved everything they thought they were capable of by being an NFL starter, or being voted to the Pro Bowl, or All-Pro.

It's my conjecture that most of the guys who have a burning desire to win, or at least expect to win, usually come out of the first two rounds. Those guys have normally come from huge programs that did really well. Not always.

We've got Matt Schaub from Virginia. A decent program. He won a bowl game & set many of Virginia's passing records. That's good.

Tj Yates came from UNC.... not really known for their QBs. They were in a down period during his tenure as starter, no bowl games, he does hold many of the schools passing records.

Case Keenum.... much smaller program, much smaller school. But he performed at the highest level possible. They put him on a stage & he answered the call every time. (mostly). He never won the Conf USA Championship, like Kolb, but it wasn't for his poor play. I think if Keenum is ever going to be our QB, he'll bring another level of "expecting to win" to the team.

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Old 08-14-2013   #114
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
No, read my comment again.

I said Keenum was able to take an inferior team and beat a superior
team on their home turf by amazing effort.

Yates and Schaub took an equivalent team and spit the bit
and produced losses when the bright lights were on and the
game really mattered.

The ability to "will" a team to win with leadership and on-field
performance is what I was getting at, and that does not differ
at any level: pros, college, pop warner

TJ
Comparing Keenum's game against Oklahoma State to Schaub or Yates in the playoffs is weak. Regardless of BCS rankings, Oklahoma State had a terrible defense and they played in a ton of high scoring games. You're not really comparing apples to apples here.
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Old 08-14-2013   #115
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
RG3
A couple of things about that:

1) I said "most" not all.
2) RG3 has played 1 year. After Vince Young played 1 year, a lot of people were ready to anoint him as the GOAT, too. BUT. QBs like that have to have the support of their coach and offensive coordinator. The coaches have to be willing to create an offense just for that one guy... like Fox did with Tebow. But coaches don't like to do that and most of them won't do it for long unless they have to. I'm not saying that RG3 can't transition to a more normal QB offense but unless he does, he's probably not going to have that long of a career.
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Old 08-14-2013   #116
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Case Keenum.... much smaller program, much smaller school. But he performed at the highest level possible. They put him on a stage & he answered the call every time. (mostly). He never won the Conf USA Championship, like Kolb, but it wasn't for his poor play. I think if Keenum is ever going to be our QB, he'll bring another level of "expecting to win" to the team.

Highest level of what? College? He wasn't consistently beating SEC or Big 12 teams in college.

I have nothing against Keenum, but I'm sure as hell not anointing him because he set records in Conference USA.
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Old 08-14-2013   #117
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
A couple of things about that:

1) I said "most" not all.
2) RG3 has played 1 year. After Vince Young played 1 year, a lot of people were ready to anoint him as the GOAT, too. BUT. QBs like that have to have the support of their coach and offensive coordinator. The coaches have to be willing to create an offense just for that one guy... like Fox did with Tebow. But coaches don't like to do that and most of them won't do it for long unless they have to. I'm not saying that RG3 can't transition to a more normal QB offense but unless he does, he's probably not going to have that long of a career.

& you've got to wonder if that's what Shanahan has in mind. Picking Cousins in the 4th, then throwing RG3 out there with that knee....

If we don't see Shanahan working to mold Griffin into a more traditional QB, you gotta start wondering just how dastardly is that Shanahan.
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Old 08-14-2013   #118
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Tj Yates came from UNC.... not really known for their QBs. They were in a down period during his tenure as starter, no bowl games, he does hold many of the schools passing records.
False. Beast Tennessee in 2010. 30-27 in overtime.

Yates showed the smarts in that game to spike the ball with 1 second left on the clock in regulation, take the penalty, and let his team kick a field goal to get into overtime with an eventual win.

Obviously I favor TJ over Case because of my school affiliation, but I want whoever gives the Texans the best chance to win out. I feel like too many people are making these statements when there are still 3 preseason games left.

Also, TJ almost beat LSU at the beginning of 2010, except his TE dropped two passes in the end zone.

Also, keep an eye on Bryn Renner this year. He looks good and could be a solid prospect.

edit: Not that this disputes your point. Just my best memory of TJ in college. It was complete pandemonium at the watching party I was at.
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Old 08-14-2013   #119
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Actually, you kinda do.
actually you can't call Case a fluke until he plays actual games in the NFL.
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Old 08-14-2013   #120
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Default Re: Post-Preseason Wk 1; Tj or Case?

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Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
but I want whoever gives the Texans the best chance to win out.
This is the way I feel. I don't care who wins the #2 QB battle as long as it's the 2nd best QB on the roster. Nothing Yates or Keenum did in college matters now.
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