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Old 08-13-2013   #41
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Why don't we do that for large manufacturing companies that actually bring jobs to the city? We could finance their buildings for them, give tax breaks and whatever else they need to ensure a 30 year lease and prosperity for the area?
I'm pretty sure there are "similar" deals worked out with large manufacturing companies. Check out the property values of all the refineries in your area & check them against the tax roles.

We're paying. They just use a different vocabulary.
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Old 08-13-2013   #42
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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As usual, the taxpayer gets soaked at the enrichment of the owners. I'm all for people getting rich, but not at the expense of the taxpayer.

If an idea is good, invest your own damn money in it unless you plan on making me an investor and giving me a piece back. If the retractable roof wasn't good enough for McNair to invest his own funds into, why was it good enough for the taxpayer to pick up the tab?

It should have been made into a dome, the rodeo would have been happy and that's that. OR it should have been made open air, and the rodeo can go find their own stadium.

Why is that too much to ask?
Personally, I like the retractable roof. We did the dome thing. That's soooo last century.

And as far as the cost, isn't some of that being deferred due to the name of the place. HL&P must be paying something like 15-25 mil per year for that place to be called Reliant. I can't find anywhere to confirm a figure for Reliant but this Wiki says $20 mil/year is typical for major mkt sports stadiums.
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Old 08-13-2013   #43
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Personally, I like the retractable roof. We did the dome thing. That's soooo last century.
If Reliant was an open air stadium, I doubt we'd have another Super Bowl coming in 2017. I thought the league was pretty clear on that when they gave us Super Bowl XXXVIII

The open roof was for the rodeo, for real grass.

If they put field turf in Reliant, then (& imo only then) will I say the roof was a waste.
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Old 08-13-2013   #44
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Why don't we do that for large manufacturing companies that actually bring jobs to the city? We could finance their buildings for them, give tax breaks and whatever else they need to ensure a 30 year lease and prosperity for the area?
They do all the time at state, county and city level. I know my city gave a 10 year tax exemption to get a manufacturer to move in.

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The point is that taxpayers should not be "partners" in entertainment complexes that only serve to enrich the owners and entertainers.
It seems you are a bit hung up on entertainment. In this context they are all businesses and the question is will it benefit the city. The Texans employ tons of people and lure all sorts of people here for tourism, etc.

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How much do we still owe on the Astrodome while we contemplate tearing it down...at taxpayers' expense?
Here is where I think we can't judge without knowing what happened. You can't look at how much is still owed alone. How much did the city benefit over the life of the dome? Maybe that made more than enough to pay off the loans but stuck it into budgets as received and spent anything over the minimum payments. These things are all set up to generate a return. If they didn't get one the failure is not on the whole concept but on their inability to accurately forecast their return.

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Please tell me how the following is a good idea:
Never said it was always a good idea.
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Old 08-13-2013   #45
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Personally, I like the retractable roof. We did the dome thing. That's soooo last century.

And as far as the cost, isn't some of that being deferred due to the name of the place. HL&P must be paying something like 15-25 mil per year for that place to be called Reliant. I can't find anywhere to confirm a figure for Reliant but this Wiki says $20 mil/year is typical for major mkt sports stadiums.
FWIW HL&P has been long gone. The new sheriff in town is NRG aka my wife's employer.
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Old 08-13-2013   #46
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

I'm cool with Reliant Stadium. I just wish they would open the roof more often. If 80* is too warm, make the upper limit 70*. Just set a policy and follow it. Open it when policy dictates and close it when policy dictates. Outdoor football games are awesome and Houston has some pretty good football weather during the season.

I'm wishy-washy on taxpayer funds for it (or any sports arena anywhere). I would prefer for owners to assume the risks and reap the rewards. Give them all the proceeds, etc. and tax accordingly. That's in a perfect world. As far as the Astrodome goes, I wonder what good can come from the space it occupies vs. the waste of space it has become. No point in arguing might have been or what ifs. It is what it is. What can be done to make the situation better?

How cool would it be to make the Astrodome a hotel or an area where the city could stage Super Bowl activities? How much would the extra parking from razing it bring in? The only sure thing is that things can't stay the same regarding the Dome. It doesn't really matter what is owed. That was spent when the deal was done. IIRC, there was a voter referendum on it, wasn;t there?
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Old 08-13-2013   #47
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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I'm cool with Reliant Stadium. I just wish they would open the roof more often. If 80* is too warm, make the upper limit 70*. Just set a policy and follow it.
That's the biggest thing.

They need to define "chance of rain" as something more than "any slight chance" because that's what they're using now to keep the roof closed.

The roof should be open 70* & below with less than 39% chance of rain.
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Old 08-13-2013   #48
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Personally, I like the retractable roof. We did the dome thing. That's soooo last century.
Except no one knows if it's really retractable any more. It's beginning to become a myth, legend, that it can actually open. Since the hurricane Ike season (2008), the Texans have played 42 football games in that building and only 8 times has the roof been open. It's only been open ONCE in the last 22 games they've played there.

I don't know of any other events where they open the roof, maybe high school games occasionally, but the thing is never open any more.

FWIW the Texans under Kubiak:
22-15 (.595) with the roof closed.
15-6 (.714) with the roof open
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Old 08-13-2013   #49
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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That's the biggest thing.

They need to define "chance of rain" as something more than "any slight chance" because that's what they're using now to keep the roof closed.

The roof should be open 70* & below with less than 39% chance of rain.
I completely agree. IMHO, this should be at least as much about the fan's experience as any kind of "winning edge". FWIW, I've been to games with the roof open and the roof closed. I couldn't tell a bit of difference in the decibel level. Of course, I was in the nose bleed section for the roof open game. BTW, I must say that I haven't had a bad seat in that stadium, whether I was there for football or the rodeo. It just seems well designed for the fan in the stands.
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Old 08-13-2013   #50
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Except no one knows if it's really retractable any more. It's beginning to become a myth, legend, that it can actually open.
Drive by during the week. It's always open.

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
FWIW the Texans under Kubiak:
22-15 (.595) with the roof closed.
15-6 (.714) with the roof open
Well hellzz yeah. Keep that mutha open.

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...BTW, I must say that I haven't had a bad seat in that stadium, whether I was there for football or the rodeo. It just seems well designed for the fan in the stands.
I'll have to disagree. I've had season tickets in the nosebleeds since 2006. Originally, I told them I wanted to be on the aisle, because I wanted easy access in & out of my seats.

Didn't take me long to realize that was a mistake.

Now, I'm still in the nose bleeds, but I'm in seats 14 & 15. I don't have to get up for anybody (30 seats in the aisle) & I don't have inconsiderate people crossing in front of me as they snap the ball.
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Old 08-13-2013   #51
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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I'll have to disagree. I've had season tickets in the nosebleeds since 2006. Originally, I told them I wanted to be on the aisle, because I wanted easy access in & out of my seats.

Didn't take me long to realize that was a mistake.

Now, I'm still in the nose bleeds, but I'm in seats 14 & 15. I don't have to get up for anybody (30 seats in the aisle) & I don't have inconsiderate people crossing in front of me as they snap the ball.
Sorry about your luck. I buy single game tickets and was talking about the actual football part of the game, not the mundane part of the game.
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Old 08-13-2013   #52
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Drive by during the week. It's always open.
TK,

I pass Reliant almost every day on the way to the Medical Center. During the offseason, the roof typically remains closed. During the season, the roof is kept open as much as possible to allow the sun to at least try to maintain the grass. However, as of last year, they've realized that sunlight from the open roof is not adequate, and they have moved many of the pallets that are not thriving out into the parking lot between games. A situation that in particular ensures the closure of the roof is times when prolonged rains occur, since the stadium cannot handle the drainage and the roof must remain closed. Both this situation and prolonged cloudy weather makes it more likely to later see the pallets out into the parking lot.......or back to the grass farm.
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Old 08-13-2013   #53
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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TK,

I pass Reliant almost every day on the way to the Medical Center. During the offseason, the roof typically remains closed. During the season, the roof is kept open as much as possible to allow the sun to at least try to maintain the grass. However, as of last year, they've realized that sunlight from the open roof is not adequate, and they have moved many of the pallets that are not thriving out into the parking lot between games. A situation that in particular ensures the closure of the roof is times when prolonged rains occur, since the stadium cannot handle the drainage and the roof must remain closed. Both this situation and prolonged cloudy weather makes it more likely to later see the pallets out into the parking lot.......or back to the grass farm.
They just messed it up from the get go. Not only does the whole field NOT get sunlight even with the roof open, especially in the fall, the part that doesn't get the sun is the south end. They can only remove the pallets from the north end. That means instead of just removing a few pallets from the south end of the stadium and leaving the rest of it inside where it gets sunlight, they pretty much have to remove the whole damn field.

And then the part that does get sun only gets a few hours per day (late morning to early afternoon). So they've got to get it all out of there anyway for it to get adequate sun exposure.
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Old 08-13-2013   #54
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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They just messed it up from the get go. Not only does the whole field NOT get sunlight even with the roof open, especially in the fall, the part that doesn't get the sun is the south end. They can only remove the pallets from the north end. That means instead of just removing a few pallets from the south end of the stadium and leaving the rest of it inside where it gets sunlight, they pretty much have to remove the whole damn field.

And then the part that does get sun only gets a few hours per day (late morning to early afternoon). So they've got to get it all out of there anyway for it to get adequate sun exposure.
I say take them all out every time and keep them together, so they all get consistent sunlight and watering. Hate seeing the seams between trays on the field
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Old 08-13-2013   #55
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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They just messed it up from the get go. Not only does the whole field NOT get sunlight even with the roof open, especially in the fall, the part that doesn't get the sun is the south end. They can only remove the pallets from the north end. That means instead of just removing a few pallets from the south end of the stadium and leaving the rest of it inside where it gets sunlight, they pretty much have to remove the whole damn field.

And then the part that does get sun only gets a few hours per day (late morning to early afternoon). So they've got to get it all out of there anyway for it to get adequate sun exposure.

As I mentioned in another post, the architects screwed up big time.
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Old 08-13-2013   #56
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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Personally, I like the retractable roof. We did the dome thing. That's soooo last century.

And as far as the cost, isn't some of that being deferred due to the name of the place. HL&P must be paying something like 15-25 mil per year for that place to be called Reliant. I can't find anywhere to confirm a figure for Reliant but this Wiki says $20 mil/year is typical for major mkt sports stadiums.
Reliant is paying $300 million over 30 years. It is the 3rd richest naming rights deal in Sports behind MetLife (Jets/Giants) and the new AT&T deal with the Cowboys.
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Old 08-14-2013   #57
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Reliant is paying $300 million over 30 years. It is the 3rd richest naming rights deal in Sports behind MetLife (Jets/Giants) and the new AT&T deal with the Cowboys.
And if you don't think that this is showing up on your electricity bills if you live in Harris County................
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Old 08-14-2013   #58
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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And if you don't think that this is showing up on your electricity bills if you live in Harris County................
Electricity is a commodity & since you have options to purchase your electricity from a few providers, Reliant really can't "pass" that expense on to the consumer.
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Old 08-14-2013   #59
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

I honestly don't know why anyone would use Reliant as a provider unless they just like throwing money away. Their rates are ridiculously high. My bill dropped by 40% when I dumped them.
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Old 08-14-2013   #60
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Default Re: The Dirty Little Truth About the Texans Roof Policy

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And if you don't think that this is showing up on your electricity bills if you live in Harris County................
Texas is deregulated. Unless you are specifically choosing Reliant because they are a sponsor of the Houston Texans, this is not affecting you.

The price is what the market will bear, based on DEMAND, not the COST OF PRODUCTION.
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