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Old 08-11-2013   #241
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by ArTex View Post
Its a credit to Keenum that he was played well and made it a contest.

Though its not like Yates did poorly or anything last game. Yates is still doing just well enough to keep his backup spot. Keenum had lots of shorter dump off passes where receivers had yards-after-catch. And he was playing against 3rd and 4th teamers.
Yes Yates benefited on 1 long pass play that a talented receiver made FOR him, but its still Yates job to deliver the ball there where he can make the play, and he did.

Even without the long TD, Yates woulda still been
12-20 for 118 yards,
compared to Keenum's
13-18 for 125 yards.

I DON'T want YATES to FAIL. It'd mean that the Texans are a WORSE TEAM with more question marks.

-
That said, with the EYE TEST: Keenum has some "pluckiness" about him to the way he handles things. Those rollouts he did were performed very nicely with good movement and execution. Even if its shorter passes, that is as much a football play as anything.

Even with how nice the actual stats are, it could have been ever BETTER. Keenum CLEARLY DIRECTED and MOVED the offense down the field for scores. He did what he was supposed to do. Where Yates worked with a little more talent to aid him, Keenum's players probably brought HIM DOWN.

The UPSIDE favors Keenum. (Gosh, both of these guys are "old')
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.
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Old 08-11-2013   #242
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.
Good points!
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Old 08-11-2013   #243
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

for those that have not followed keenum's whole's collegiate career, his college situation is similar to his current nfl situation.

in 06, keenum was 2nd or 3rd to Kevin Kolb. After Kolb graduated, Keenum had to battle it out with Joseph Blake. Case did his homework, and eventually beat out Blake. The guy loves competition. It cost him his knee when he threw an interception and tried to take matters in the his own hands. He's got no fear.

Case has a lot of college experience and I've watched his instincts and cold blooded play over the years. There's a reason why, Briles, Sumlin, and Kubiak speak a lot of praise from this guy. His last collegiate game against elite defensive Penn State put the icing on the cake with for 532 yards and 3 TDs.


I'm a Schaub fan. I also like TJ a lot. But it's nice to know that Keenum is working hard. He won't start anytime soon, but all of you guys will see that this kid is the real deal. His insticts, IQ, vision, footwork and leadership are his strong points.



Btw, all of you hating because he's from UH are just dumb. I've always supported all the QB's from this state. I just don't get it.

Last edited by legacy_gt; 08-12-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 08-12-2013   #244
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.
A difference I was trying to point out between the play of Yates and the play of Keenum. MSR
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Old 08-12-2013   #245
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
A difference I was trying to point out between the play of Yates and the play of Keenum. MSR
Got him for you.


I never saw Keenum play at UfH. I didn't go to UofH. I was impressed with Yates his rookie year but Keenum looks better now.

I will BOO Kubiak if he doesn't give Keenum a shot with the 2s this Saturday.
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Old 08-12-2013   #246
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

When Case was moving the offense down the field they showed Yates on the sideline looking on. The look on Yates' face didn't look like someone who felt he wasn't in any competition.
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Old 08-12-2013   #247
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I bet you money Yates will open the season as our #2 QB behind Schaub (baring injury).


& it doesn't even matter how well Keenum does, because there is no competition. Keenum cannot compete with what Yates has... real NFL experience. Real NFL play-off experience.


It's coachspeak & I'm surprised so many fell for it.
Im surprised you actually believe the crap you typed above.. LMAO WOW!

Here's a dose of reality.. There's a heated competition at the backup QB position and the "NFL experience" you speak of, the year Yates got that experience he was the 3rd string QB... behind Matt Lienhart, so it's not like he earned the opportunity through his play, it came to him by the way of injury and he's only been here one more season than the guy pushing him.. so lets not act like he's some grizzly vet entrenched at his position on the team.
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Old 08-12-2013   #248
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
for those that have not followed keenum's whole's collegiate career, his college situation is similar to his current nfl situation.

in 06, keenum was 2nd or 3rd to Kevin Kolb. After Kolb graduated, Keenum had to battle it out with Joseph Blake. Case did his homework, and eventually beat out Blake. The guy loves competition. It cost him his knee when he threw an interception and tried to take matters in the his own hands. He's got no fear.

Case has a lot of college experience and I've watched his instincts and cold blooded play over the years. There's a reason why, Briles, Sumlin, and Kubiak speak a lot of praise from this guy. His last collegiate game against elite defensive Penn State put the icing on the cake with for 532 yards and 3 TDs.


I'm a Schaub fan. I also like TJ a lot. But it's nice to know that Keenum is working hard. He won't start anytime soon, but all of you guys will see that this kid is the real deal. His insticts, IQ, vision, footwork and leadership are his strong points.



Btw, all of you hating because he's from UH are just dumb. I've always supported all the QB's from this state. I just don't get it.
Oh, he's from UH. Well, Yates is safe then.

Just wanted to make my little comment, but I was impressed with Keenum.
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Old 08-13-2013   #249
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Coming from a completely unbiased Texas point of view, and a completely biased Houston Texans point of view, I'm really happy we have two capable QBs playing behind Schaub.

For one, it's good to have solid depth just in case we get unlucky, and for two, it will keep Matt on his toes. I want Schaub to succeed, but I'm still pretty salty about seeing him throw balls at his feet, even when the play was still alive in the playoffs against the Patriots.

As for the "backup quarterback" controversy, I think Case comes close but Yates wins out at least for this season. The NFL is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately?" kind of league, and people remember the last time Yates was given consistent time as a starter, he performed. I still remember TJ's drive against the Bengals that finally clinched that elusive playoff berth. He performed admirably that season with the reps.

Just to play devil's advocate, does anyone remember that play in TJ's first start against the Falcons, play action by design, TJ stumbles initially, regains balance and hits Johnson in stride over the middle deep? Had Case done that exact play, this site would be shut down due to traffic.

Case is talented no doubt (I also understand cheering for homegrown talent, for basketball fans, Wiggins is a big deal right now in Toronto), but he faces an uphill battle as an undrafted QB. For me, and others, you've got to bring Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and Tony Romo into the discussion when bringing up undrafted yet successful QBs.

For Warner and Moon however, they both had to not only experience failure, but also found playing time elsewhere before being given a shot. Warner was cut and ended up almost completely ditching the sport, but found a niche in the Arena Football League, built up confidence then the rest is history. Moon played in the CFL, was amazing, and then the NFL bid on him realizing they messed up.

Romo is a bit of a different story. He was brought onto a team that didn't exactly have any competition. Chad Hutchinson, who was a baseball player first really, wasn't anything, Vinny Testaverde was brought in to really mentor guys like Carter (who failed his drug test, and was also another baseball guy), and Bledsoe was simply running his victory lap at this point. This scenario and strong support from Sean Payton is what allowed Romo to dart up the depth chart.

At the same time, some people who use Romo as an example of an undrafted QB, have also ripped Romo as a QB in the past.

Either way, I think Yates wins out, but if Case succeeds and beats the odds, even better because I know the coaching staff will make the right call for this team. If Case gets it, it's because he earned it, and not because of UH bias like some people. And that's the way it should be, because this team is entering uncharted territory, we expect a Super Bowl now, so we should put forth the best team possible.
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Old 08-13-2013   #250
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Well said, T.T2S

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Old 08-13-2013   #251
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.
That, it is.
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Old 08-13-2013   #252
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
A difference I was trying to point out between the play of Yates and the play of Keenum. MSR
Got him for ya.



Edit (What Kubiak sees in Case)
Quote:
(on what he looks for when watching QB Case Keenum) “Well I think as a coach, you are always looking for instincts. You sit there and coach the game and you coach plays and ‘throw it here’ and ‘throw it on time’, but once the lights go on, probably half the game is played off schedule and played off rhythm. It’s just the way it is. He’s kind of got that knack when things aren’t the way they are supposed to be, he finds a way to make plays. Kind of like the play he made in the red zone moving around the other night. We caught a blitz last night that nobody knows that we couldn’t block, but he gets the ball out in the flat and doesn’t take a sack. He can do those types of things and he can really bail you out of some bad situations with his athletic ability.”
I don't have a photographic memory or anything close to it, but I don't recall hearing Kubiak say that about Yates.


...or Schaub come to think about it... but that could just be my bad memory.
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Old 08-13-2013   #253
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It would be great if what we thought was taken into account by Kubiak.... but it's not. If Kubiak was as unimpressed as you were in Tj's performance, he'd have brought someone in to compete with Tj last season. Since he did not, I assume he saw enough in Tj to think he could be at the very least a decent insurance policy in the event Schaub doesn't play 16 games in 2012. The goal then was Super Bowl, same as it is today.

I mentioned in another thread, completions, TDs, ratings, etc.... or lack thereof are not as important as knowing the playbook, running the offense as designed, getting the ball out on time, & taking care of the football. So what we saw in the preseason last season most likely wasn't what Kubiak saw in the preseason last year.

Before anyone says I'm contradicting myself, I said "not as important" not "not important" If he's got the playbook, runs the offense, gets the ball out on time, & takes care of the football (the fundamentals) + the numbers, that's an A+ grade. If he's got the numbers, but not the fundamentals (as defined earlier) that's a C grade. If he's got the fundamentals but not the numbers, that's a B+ or something similar.

Kubiak can plan around the fundamentals. He can give his team a reasonable chance to win if he can reasonably expect a certain level of "production." We saw it with Tj the rookie, we saw it with the 2012 OL & WRs. It's much more difficult to squeeze out wins if he's got a maverick QB (not that Case is maverick) or wild variations of performance from key components of his offense. We saw that with Tj the rookie as well. We saw it with Jacoby.
TK, Kubes did bring in Keenum to compete and signed him May 2012. Then gave him a two year deal for $900,000 for 2013/14.
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Old 08-13-2013   #254
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by TdotTexas2Step View Post
Coming from a completely unbiased Texas point of view, and a completely biased Houston Texans point of view, I'm really happy we have two capable QBs playing behind Schaub.

For one, it's good to have solid depth just in case we get unlucky, and for two, it will keep Matt on his toes. I want Schaub to succeed, but I'm still pretty salty about seeing him throw balls at his feet, even when the play was still alive in the playoffs against the Patriots.

As for the "backup quarterback" controversy, I think Case comes close but Yates wins out at least for this season. The NFL is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately?" kind of league, and people remember the last time Yates was given consistent time as a starter, he performed. I still remember TJ's drive against the Bengals that finally clinched that elusive playoff berth. He performed admirably that season with the reps.

Just to play devil's advocate, does anyone remember that play in TJ's first start against the Falcons, play action by design, TJ stumbles initially, regains balance and hits Johnson in stride over the middle deep? Had Case done that exact play, this site would be shut down due to traffic.

Case is talented no doubt (I also understand cheering for homegrown talent, for basketball fans, Wiggins is a big deal right now in Toronto), but he faces an uphill battle as an undrafted QB. For me, and others, you've got to bring Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and Tony Romo into the discussion when bringing up undrafted yet successful QBs.

For Warner and Moon however, they both had to not only experience failure, but also found playing time elsewhere before being given a shot. Warner was cut and ended up almost completely ditching the sport, but found a niche in the Arena Football League, built up confidence then the rest is history. Moon played in the CFL, was amazing, and then the NFL bid on him realizing they messed up.

Romo is a bit of a different story. He was brought onto a team that didn't exactly have any competition. Chad Hutchinson, who was a baseball player first really, wasn't anything, Vinny Testaverde was brought in to really mentor guys like Carter (who failed his drug test, and was also another baseball guy), and Bledsoe was simply running his victory lap at this point. This scenario and strong support from Sean Payton is what allowed Romo to dart up the depth chart.

At the same time, some people who use Romo as an example of an undrafted QB, have also ripped Romo as a QB in the past.

Either way, I think Yates wins out, but if Case succeeds and beats the odds, even better because I know the coaching staff will make the right call for this team. If Case gets it, it's because he earned it, and not because of UH bias like some people. And that's the way it should be, because this team is entering uncharted territory, we expect a Super Bowl now, so we should put forth the best team possible.
I don't get it. When that play happened, people were all over this board saying Schaub could never do that (he couldn't). Why would Keenum be any different, especially when he also went to college in the city. Go dig up the giant threads from the 2011 season on Yates vs Schaub.
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Old 08-13-2013   #255
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Got him for ya.

Funny thing is, we get YAC. Andre, Jacoby, OD, Arian... they catch the ball, then they turn it up-field. But we'll still criticize Schaub for not hitting his receivers in stride & for holding the ball too long.

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TK, Kubes did bring in Keenum to compete and signed him May 2012. Then gave him a two year deal for $900,000 for 2013/14.
Then he cut him from the team, watched him clear waivers, then signed him to the practice squad. That doesn't sound like "competition" for Yates last season.

Kubiak was satisfied last season for Tj to be one play away from being the Texans' QB.
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Old 08-13-2013   #256
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Funny thing is, we get YAC. Andre, Jacoby, OD, Arian... they catch the ball, then they turn it up-field. But we'll still criticize Schaub for not hitting his receivers in stride & for holding the ball too long.
The basis of that criticism is this question:
How many MORE yards, first downs, TDs could those guys have attained if Schaub had hit them in stride. When you see AJ have to slow down (if not stop) and wait on a ball instead of catching it in stride - or even better, having to shift gears and "go get it" - you just know that DB wouldn't have caught up to him it that ball had hit him on the money.

...but you knew this. You've likely wondered about it yourself on a play here or there. I have.
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Old 08-13-2013   #257
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
The basis of that criticism is this question:
How many MORE yards, first downs, TDs could those guys have attained if Schaub had hit them in stride. When you see AJ have to slow down (if not stop) and wait on a ball instead of catching it in stride - or even better, having to shift gears and "go get it" - you just know that DB wouldn't have caught up to him it that ball had hit him on the money.

...but you knew this. You've likely wondered about it yourself on a play here or there. I have.
It's obvious that Schaub IS able to do that (see Broncos game last year TD pass to Andre, the ball was in the air for 60 yds). We also heard the argument that he underthrows some of them on purpose. So, it could be that (underthrowing on purpose), or maybe he's just not able to do that consistently.

TD to AJ vs Broncos
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Old 08-13-2013   #258
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post

...but you knew this.
Yes....

Just saying I think it's odd, that is a criticism of Schaub, but YAC is supposed to be an indicator of leading a receiver.

Andre was 3rd in the league, just imagine how out of reach he'd be if his QB led him more often. It would be sick. Imagine how many TDs he'd have.

OD was third among TEs


But like you're thinking in the back of your head, that's the difference between a QB helping a receiver & a receiver helping a QB.
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Old 08-13-2013   #259
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Yes....

Just saying I think it's odd, that is a criticism of Schaub, but YAC is supposed to be an indicator of leading a receiver.

Andre was 3rd in the league, just imagine how out of reach he'd be if his QB led him more often. It would be sick. Imagine how many TDs he'd have.

OD was third among TEs


But like you're thinking in the back of your head, that's the difference between a QB helping a receiver & a receiver helping a QB.
It's one of the factors, that's for sure.
I had disagreed with those who said that Schaub can't throw a guy open.
He just doesn't do it on a consistent basis.
We've seen AJ breaking tackles or dragging defenders into the end zone and we have seen the receivers break up what would have been INT.
Unlike David Anderson, AJ almost always get some extra yards by pure strength.

I'd love to see Schaub improve in that department a little more.
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Old 08-13-2013   #260
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Yes....

Just saying I think it's odd, that is a criticism of Schaub ...
Schaub's a big boy. He can handle it. Are you suggesting that such a critique is unfair, given that he's a 9-yr vet going into his 7th season with the same coach and system? Or are you suggesting that people should refrain from mentioning this quality when watching other QBs, in order avoid hurting Schaubie's feelings? Or maybe you just want us to leave Schaub alone.
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