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Old 08-10-2013   #181
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

I think the back up QB situation will be more clear if and when Kubiak let Case play before TJ against Miami. I really like to see how Case hooks up with Hopkins.
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Old 08-10-2013   #182
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by SAMURAITEXAN View Post
I think the back up QB situation will be more clear if and when Kubiak let Case play before TJ against Miami. I really like to see how Case hooks up with Hopkins.
Keenum throws the football more like Boyd did at clemson so I see it being great chemistry wise.
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Old 08-10-2013   #183
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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What is your source for this assertion?
Same source as most of the feces he's produced lately.
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Old 08-10-2013   #184
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Same source as most of the feces he's produced lately.
I bet you money Yates will open the season as our #2 QB behind Schaub (baring injury).


& it doesn't even matter how well Keenum does, because there is no competition. Keenum cannot compete with what Yates has... real NFL experience. Real NFL play-off experience.


It's coachspeak & I'm surprised so many fell for it.
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Old 08-10-2013   #185
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

I don't think I've weighed in on this subject, but I'll admit I wasn't a fan of Yates at all while he was at Carolina. He showed some things when he started for us and I'll always appreciate his contribution to our playoff run. With that being said he tends to miss on a lot of easy throws especially early in games. Maybe its something you can chalk it up to adrenaline, but I don't think he's our default #2 QB no matter what. He played well last night after being off early on though.

I also have to put the disclaimer out there as well that I wasn't sold Keenum could be a QB in this league. He showed me some things last night that may cause me to question that somewhat. He's always been accurate, but his athletic ability on our boots really jumped out to me. He's a much better athlete than the other 2 so it adds a different dimension. I need to see more, but if I'm Kubiak I see no need to just annoint TJ the backup right now.
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Old 08-10-2013   #186
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I need to see more, but if I'm Kubiak I see no need to just annoint TJ the backup right now.
Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.
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Old 08-10-2013   #187
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.
It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to give the job to someone that you claim won the job two years ago. In this league, unless you're a proven starter, you should have to earn your spot every year. If he feels like Keenum is the better player and gives us the best chance to win then he should make the tough decision and go with him.

I'd also like to point out that TJ didn't exactly light things up when he played for us. He did a great job of managing the game, but there wasn't one point where I could say I was completely comfortable with him. Two years later I still can't say that. Your philosophy that guys shouldn't have to show they're better than the next guy behind them every year would get your fired in a heartbeat as a coach. I hope Texans coaches present and future never have that mentality.
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Old 08-10-2013   #188
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.
So I guess Martin and Jean should be ahead of Hopkins since they both have playoff experience and all.
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Old 08-10-2013   #189
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I'd also like to point out that TJ didn't exactly light things up when he played for us. He did a great job of managing the game, but there wasn't one point where I could say I was completely comfortable with him. Two years later I still can't say that. Your philosophy that guys shouldn't have to show they're better than the next guy behind them every year would get your fired in a heartbeat as a coach. I hope Texans coaches present and future never have that mentality.
It's not my philosophy. It's what it is. If Keenum was truly competing with Tj, they never would have brought McGee in (McGee also has NFL experience). Keenum playing as well as he is, is earning his spot on the roster. It wasn't just given to him.

I'd have an easier time believing Tj was competing for his job, if McGee was in the third spot..... but he's not.

& yes, there are still a lot of questions concerning Tj. He's never been given the full play-book in a game. If Matt gets hurt in the regular season, Yates is going to go in & prove to us he deserves to be starting. If he can't successfully answer the remaining questions, Keenum will go in. At that point, Kubiak won't have a choice. He'll have to admit that he's wrong & he'll answer the questions about 3 years back to back with green QBs.

But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.
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Old 08-10-2013   #190
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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So I guess Martin and Jean should be ahead of Hopkins since they both have playoff experience and all.
If those two ever showed to be competent with the play book I'm sure they would be. But neither of them at any time earned the #2 WR spot.

Had Posey not tore his Achilles, I bet he'd be ahead of Hopkins, if we even drafted a WR in the first round.
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Old 08-10-2013   #191
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.
That sentence seems to indicate that there actually is a competition after all.

If there is no competition it really shouldn't matter how well anyone plays..


I think you are confusing no competition with Yates having a large lead in the competition because of his experience.
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Old 08-10-2013   #192
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.
He won jack two years ago. He was buried on the depth chart and everyone in front got hurt.

His playoff experience you find so compelling consisted of one decent game and one miserable one.
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Old 08-10-2013   #193
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Its one game in the preseason TK. I will agree with you that TJ probably has to have a poor showing the rest of the games here on out to probably lose his spot, but I stress the word probably. Kubiak has done his evaluations throughout the offseason and sees Keenum as his pet prodigy right now. If he feels like he's playing the best I can totally see him making him the backup. I don't even know why you brought up McGee. He was brought in as a camp arm and insurance. Nothing more, nothing less.

If Kubiak is making Yates the backup because he had 1 really good drive 2 years ago then he's failing this team as a coach. I have my doubts about him, but I honestly don't think he shares your same thoughts and opinions.
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Old 08-10-2013   #194
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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It's not my philosophy. It's what it is. If Keenum was truly competing with Tj, they never would have brought McGee in (McGee also has NFL experience). Keenum playing as well as he is, is earning his spot on the roster. It wasn't just given to him.

I'd have an easier time believing Tj was competing for his job, if McGee was in the third spot..... but he's not.

& yes, there are still a lot of questions concerning Tj. He's never been given the full play-book in a game. If Matt gets hurt in the regular season, Yates is going to go in & prove to us he deserves to be starting. If he can't successfully answer the remaining questions, Keenum will go in. At that point, Kubiak won't have a choice. He'll have to admit that he's wrong & he'll answer the questions about 3 years back to back with green QBs.

But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.
In preseason, I seriously doubt that the classic QB ratings and completion percentages will trump form, poise and ability to respond to certain situations to make things happen.
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Old 08-10-2013   #195
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I think you are confusing no competition with Yates having a large lead in the competition because of his experience.
You're right, maybe that would be a better way of putting it.
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Old 08-10-2013   #196
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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In preseason, I seriously doubt that the classic QB ratings and completion percentages will trump form, poise and ability to respond to certain situations to make things happen.
It's not like Yates has poor form, no poise, & no ability to respond & make things happen.
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Old 08-10-2013   #197
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.
I follow your logic but I'm not sure its the lead pipe cinch you're thinking it is.
I'll say this: Yates will be the #2 when the season begins
...but he won't have the long leash he had last year when Keenum was learning what the NFL was all about and inserting Keenum was a pretty big risk. If Yates has to go in for Schaub and stinks it up - or even fails to move the team after 2-3 series - I think Kubiak will feel better about pulling Yates and inserting Keenum to (a) possibly/hopefully give the team a spark and/or (b) let Yates know his backup spot isn't totally secure.

Keenum's play has definitely made things more interesting.
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Old 08-10-2013   #198
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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If Kubiak is making Yates the backup because he had 1 really good drive 2 years ago then he's failing this team as a coach. I have my doubts about him, but I honestly don't think he shares your same thoughts and opinions.
It was more than one good drive. & it's not my "opinion" it's odds. No one knows how Keenum is going to play in the NFL. We've got good ideas, we can make educated guesses, but it's less than 50/50 that Keenum will be able to continue to have the success he had in college or the preseason. Maybe less if you consider all the guys in similar situations that couldn't (not that there are many NCAAF passing leaders).

& the progress Kubiak is able to see in Keenum in practice & the film room, he may be seeing similar progress in Yates for all we know.
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Old 08-10-2013   #199
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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It was more than one good drive. & it's not my "opinion" it's odds. No one knows how Keenum is going to play in the NFL. We've got good ideas, we can make educated guesses, but it's less than 50/50 that Keenum will be able to continue to have the success he had in college or the preseason. Maybe less if you consider all the guys in similar situations that couldn't (not that there are many NCAAF passing leaders).

& the progress Kubiak is able to see in Keenum in practice & the film room, he may be seeing similar progress in Yates for all we know.
I said in my inital post here I don't know who the best QB is right now, but to me Yates wasn't all that great in that stretch of games he started and wasn't great last preseason. I want the best QB TODAY on the field. Vince Young is 31-19 as a starter, but it took him forever to get another shot. If TJ shows that he's better then fine, but his play from 2 years ago shouldn't win him the job THIS year. Just my opinion.
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Old 08-10-2013   #200
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I follow your logic but I'm not sure its the lead pipe cinch you're thinking it is.
I'll say this: Yates will be the #2 when the season begins
...but he won't have the long leash he had last year when Keenum was learning what the NFL was all about and inserting Keenum was a pretty big risk. If Yates has to go in for Schaub and stinks it up - or even fails to move the team after 2-3 series - I think Kubiak will feel better about pulling Yates and inserting Keenum to (a) possibly/hopefully give the team a spark and/or (b) let Yates know his backup spot isn't totally secure.

Keenum's play has definitely made things more interesting.
That's exactly the way I see it. Well, I think he'll have a longer leash. But Yates will be pulled if Kubiak thinks he's not getting the job done. Keenum will earn the #2 spot on the field, same as Yates did (otherwise we'd have brought in a #2 last offseason).

Even if Yates does not stink it up, if we manage to get a good lead, instead of going into turtle mode, he'll put Keenum in to help him get ready in case we need him for the post season.
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