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Old 08-08-2013   #381
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
Do you think Schad just made up the contents of that video?
Do you realize that Schad and Rovell (who are the drivers of this story) are some of the least respected members of the "media"? These guys are notorious for jumping to "report" a piece of gossip or an accusation and then when it comes out they were completely wrong just ignoring it and moving on. Even TMZ at least TRIES to get it right.

Schad has even said in interviews that he doesn't understand why people want to know his sources or whether they are trustworthy.

So yeah, I wouldn't put it past them to report things they "think" they heard and it come out later that it was not even close.
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Old 08-08-2013   #382
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TMZ has become one of those outlets that "gets it right" most of the time.
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Old 08-08-2013   #383
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Old 08-08-2013   #384
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Good Bull Hunting Johnny Sig generator

Some of the better efforts.





^^^AJ McCarron's Mom for those who are unfamiliar.
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Old 08-08-2013   #385
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
TMZ has become one of those outlets that "gets it right" most of the time.
Which is sad when compared to these guys as espn.
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Old 08-08-2013   #386
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...d-online-items

This is a direct result of sites (i.e. Deadspin) pointing out the hypocrisy.

Note whose jersey is featured.

Quote:
The NCAA will "exit" the business of selling player and school related memorabilia and apparel on its branded website, NCAA president Mark Emmert said Wednesday.

That site -- ShopNCAASports.com -- had come under fire this week for selling ... 1) jerseys identified by individual players, 2) the autograph of a player who was a central figure in NCAA case (Reggie Bush) and 3) Penn State videos of a game that had been vacated by the association in the Sandusky scandal.
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Old 08-08-2013   #387
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
TMZ has become one of those outlets that "gets it right" most of the time.

Yeah it's really a bad comparison as tmz hits the mark fairly regularly
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Old 08-08-2013   #388
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John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
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Wish I could claim this but I can't: Johnny Football as The Money Badger.
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Old 08-08-2013   #389
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
I like "Johnny Cash" myself but both are pretty nice.

Stemp, I have a hard time seeing what complaining about ESPN, counting Clowney's autogaphs on EBay, or pointing out that autograph brokers are disreputable people is going to accomplish.

ESPN's "Outside the Lines" reported that the NCAA is investigating three different brokers' claims that Manziel traded thousands of autographs for at least $10,000. Was ESPN lying? Making it up? They then reported that one broker was in possession of a video in which Manziel tells the broker that if anyone asks, he was never there, that he was just signing items for individual fans, and he and the broker never met. He then said if the broker said anything he would never work with him again. Again, your explanation is "he made it all up?" Yet another reporter for ESPN is saying it's at least six different sources. He's making it up too I guess?

I don't believe you'd accept that argument for anyone else. If ESPN broke the news that the NCAA was investigating Javon Clowney would you accept the number of items from JFF on EBay as proof of innocence? Would you just say "Joe Schad and every other reporter there is a joke, nothing to see here..." Would you justify it because the NCAA's system exploits athletes?
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Old 08-08-2013   #390
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
I like "Johnny Cash" myself but both are pretty nice.

Stemp, I have a hard time seeing what complaining about ESPN, counting Clowney's autogaphs on EBay, or pointing out that autograph brokers are disreputable people is going to accomplish.

ESPN's "Outside the Lines" reported that the NCAA is investigating three different brokers' claims that Manziel traded thousands of autographs for at least $10,000. Was ESPN lying? Making it up? They then reported that one broker was in possession of a video in which Manziel tells the broker that if anyone asks, he was never there, that he was just signing items for individual fans, and he and the broker never met. He then said if the broker said anything he would never work with him again. Again, your explanation is "he made it all up?" Yet another reporter for ESPN is saying it's at least six different sources. He's making it up too I guess?

I don't believe you'd accept that argument for anyone else. If ESPN broke the news that the NCAA was investigating Javon Clowney would you accept the number of items from JFF on EBay as proof of innocence? Would you just say "Joe Schad and every other reporter there is a joke, nothing to see here..." Would you justify it because the NCAA's system exploits athletes?
Let's get all the facts out there....

- In 2012 the Manziels trademark "Johnny Football" and start shutting down people who are profiting using said trademark.
- As part of this process, eBay ends all the auctions and sales of anyone who used "Johnny Football" and goes further by banning many of those sellers for 2 weeks. Obviously this hurts the cash flow of many people who are profiting from college players.
- Rovell reports NCAA is investigating Manziel for accepting a "5 figure fee" ($10,000+) to sign memorabilia.
- 2 days later, Joe Schad is contacted by a "broker" that says Manziel accepted $7,500 and says he has videos showing him signing his memorabilia as is asking for $80K for the videos. These videos were made illegally in CT.
- Schad looks at the videos but they don't show any wrongdoing by Manziel and ESPN declines to purchase the videos. The guy says he's ok with talking to ESPN,but won't talk to the NCAA.
- Schad says in the video he hears the guy offer manziel money to personalize autographs and Manziel declines. No one knows what was actually said so all the descriptions are based on Schad's recollection and interpretation.
- ESPN pushes the narrative that there is a large amount of sequentially numbered authentications by various brokers and that is unique to Manziel items being offered.
- Reports surface that "broker" who spoke with Schad has many arrests against him including dealing drugs.
- Schad now says it has numerous brokers from across the country who say Manziel (or his buddy) accepted money for signatures.
- Reports surface that this broker among others have large amounts of signed items by many big name college players.
- Pictures start to surface from the other big name players signing large amounts of items.
- USC, Louisville and Ohio State say they have investigated and they all clear their players.
- Reports surface that the there are large amounts of sequentially numbered authentications for other college players,which counter ESPN's narrative that this was unique to Manziel.
- Reports surface that the various "brokers", including the one with the video are all connected to each other and they may have placed large bets on Alabama prior to coming forward to ESPN.
- There is still no evidence whatsoever that Manziel accepted money for signing.
- Every accusation made, except by the one arrested for dealing drugs, was made anonymously to ESPN by people in a very shady business and who refuse to speak on the record to anyone.

So what does this all boil down to? Johnny, Clowney, Bridgewater and others have signed large amounts of memorabilia which is being authenticated and sold by "brokers". Were they paid? Maybe but there is no evidence of it. And the accusations are being made by shady people, who may have a motive to screw over Manziel because of what happened on eBay and whose profession it is to get college players to somehow sign a bunch of stuff so they can sell it for a profit, which is against NCAA regulations.

If this were another school's player being targeted, I probably wouldn't care much and certainly wouldn't take as much interest. But yes, I would question Schad and Rovell since they have proven they have little, if any, journalistic integrity and I would question the accusations of shady brokers who hide behind anonymity and an illegally made video that no one can see and that the one person who has seen it says nothing on it shows any wrongdoing.

Last edited by Stemp; 08-08-2013 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 08-08-2013   #391
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Default Re: Manziel

Ok, this is from a guy I know who is an A&M insider who runs one of the major A&M message boards (not TexAgs). What he says makes sense.

Quote:
At this point, I have no idea what is fact, what is fiction, what is legal mumbo-jumbo, what is conspiracy, how many people do it, etc.

At this point, I think that's what all parties want. If the truth becomes confusing and fuzzy, all major parties have an out and win.

1) The organization on the hottest seat is the NCAA. They no more wanted to deal with this issue because of the pending lawsuits. They also don't want to see the most marketable player in college football sidelined, especially for the biggest game of the year. In addition, A&M and Manziel have lawyered up and the NCAA enforcement group have been decimated in recent months with defections. They simply don't have the resources or the expertise to deal with legal resources on the other side.

2) CBS wants Johnny to play in the Alabama game...period. They also want to see their competitor, ESPN, get negative publicity for this story.

3) ESPN's junior investigative reporter thought he was going to make his career with this story and he came out of the gates guns a-blazing. But the more this story lingers, the more the ESPN brass is wondering why they want to scuttle their biggest storyline of the year and where they will be on 9/14...the A&M-Alabama game. ESPN management doesn't seem to have the stomach to pursue this much longer.

4) A&M wants this to go away for so many obvious reasons, but it doesn't help that these questions have arisen during the Kyle Field capital campaign. Plus, from a sports standpoint, the football team and many other teams like basketball and baseball are bringing in a bunch of critical recruits for the big Alabama weekend. The weekend falls flat without manziel on the field.

5) The biggest invisible hand that we haven't talked about much is Mike Slive and the SEC Conference. If you don't think they aren't putting pressure on the NCAA and ESPN to drop this, then you under-estimate the power of Slive.

Bottomn line, whether you like what has happened or not...whether you believe Manziel is innocent or not...whether you think the college game has become too dirty and too commercial...people want to see the A&M-Alabama game with Manziel. THose that dislike Manziel want to see Alabama and Nick Saban get their revenge. Manziel fans want to see him show the naysayers and haters that he is still the magical playermaker and take down mighty Alabama again.

And thus, networks, advertisers, SEC conference officials, NFL scouts, and yes even the NCAA wants this game in all it's glory with Johnny Manziel participating.

Really, the only complication is that the NCAA needs a path to exit this investigation without looking inept and weak. They simply don't want to drop the investigation without any findings or closure. So that's why I'm assuming the lawyers in the room are discussing ways to end this saga quickly that gives Manziel back to Texas A&M and the college football industry while also making the NCAA look like an equal partner in the final resolution.

I don;t know what that is, because I'm not sure that a one game suspension solves the issues for the NCAA. I'm not sure Team Manziel will be agreeable to ANY suspension now that it looks like some of the brokers used to push this story have shown their own warts and don't look like credible "witnesses".

So for me, the only issue is what is the path of exit for the NCAA that doesn't make them look weak. I'm sure the lawyers will craft some "compromise" that is agreeable to all parties, and we will still get what we want....Alabama vs. Texas A&M with Johnny Manziel leading the Aggie offense.
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Old 08-08-2013   #392
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...
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Old 08-08-2013   #393
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Default Re: Manziel

Meh........ While I believe it's all bull****, I also believe the NCAA is all about making money.

Have no mistake, Johnny Manziel will be under center for A&M this season.

When has the NCAA ever really moved fast during investigation?? (Again, money is involved).


That said, if the NCAA makes too big of a deal over this, doesn't it only turn the public's perception even more towards the fact that student athletes should be allowed to make a dollar off their likeness while the universities make millions???? This includes video games, no?

What about the customized jersey fiasco???
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Old 08-08-2013   #394
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
Remember what I said about ESPN and Rovell?Apparently it came out today there is no active investigation by the NCAA nor any formal allegations.


http://www.kvia.com/news/el-paso-att...1/-/index.html
Quote:
"I can't say much," Darnell told USA TODAY Sports, "other than we're working through the process. He's cooperating with the investigation. We think when all this comes out on the other end, he'll be the starting quarterback for the Aggies against Rice."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...rnell/2633405/

So the lawyer the Manziels hired "weeks ago" (ie before the ESPN story broke) because they weren't being investigated is saying that Manziel is cooperating with an investigation that doesn't exist?

Or is it that USA Today sports is biased and Greg Schroeder is making it all up?
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Old 08-08-2013   #395
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Default Re: Manziel

Johnny Football appears to = Cam Newton.

If the NCAA profits no sanctions will be forthcoming.

However if the Horns fall to 2nd tier in recruiting you can bet the NCAA will come calling. Ask the Ponies how this will turn out.
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Old 08-08-2013   #396
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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Meh........ While I believe it's all bull****, I also believe the NCAA is all about making money.

Have no mistake, Johnny Manziel will be under center for A&M this season.

When has the NCAA ever really moved fast during investigation?? (Again, money is involved).


That said, if the NCAA makes too big of a deal over this, doesn't it only turn the public's perception even more towards the fact that student athletes should be allowed to make a dollar off their likeness while the universities make millions???? This includes video games, no?

What about the customized jersey fiasco???
Why didn't all of these A&M fans back Auburn during the Cam Newton investigation or the OSU Pryor/Posey investigation?

Homerism?
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Old 08-08-2013   #397
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...rnell/2633405/

So the lawyer the Manziels hired "weeks ago" (ie before the ESPN story broke) because they weren't being investigated is saying that Manziel is cooperating with an investigation that doesn't exist?

Or is it that USA Today sports is biased and Greg Schroeder is making it all up?
Yeah, I found out the lawyer was misquoted so I removed it.
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Old 08-08-2013   #398
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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Why didn't all of these A&M fans back Auburn during the Cam Newton investigation or the OSU Pryor/Posey investigation?

Homerism?
Because most didn't care.
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Old 08-09-2013   #399
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Default Re: Manziel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
Let's get all the facts out there....

- In 2012 the Manziels trademark "Johnny Football" and start shutting down people who are profiting using said trademark.
- As part of this process, eBay ends all the auctions and sales of anyone who used "Johnny Football" and goes further by banning many of those sellers for 2 weeks. Obviously this hurts the cash flow of many people who are profiting from college players.
- Rovell reports NCAA is investigating Manziel for accepting a "5 figure fee" ($10,000+) to sign memorabilia.
- 2 days later, Joe Schad is contacted by a "broker" that says Manziel accepted $7,500 and says he has videos showing him signing his memorabilia as is asking for $80K for the videos. These videos were made illegally in CT.
- Schad looks at the videos but they don't show any wrongdoing by Manziel and ESPN declines to purchase the videos. The guy says he's ok with talking to ESPN,but won't talk to the NCAA.
- Schad says in the video he hears the guy offer manziel money to personalize autographs and Manziel declines. No one knows what was actually said so all the descriptions are based on Schad's recollection and interpretation.
- ESPN pushes the narrative that there is a large amount of sequentially numbered authentications by various brokers and that is unique to Manziel items being offered.
- Reports surface that "broker" who spoke with Schad has many arrests against him including dealing drugs.
- Schad now says it has numerous brokers from across the country who say Manziel (or his buddy) accepted money for signatures.
- Reports surface that this broker among others have large amounts of signed items by many big name college players.
- Pictures start to surface from the other big name players signing large amounts of items.
- USC, Louisville and Ohio State say they have investigated and they all clear their players.
- Reports surface that the there are large amounts of sequentially numbered authentications for other college players,which counter ESPN's narrative that this was unique to Manziel.
- Reports surface that the various "brokers", including the one with the video are all connected to each other and they may have placed large bets on Alabama prior to coming forward to ESPN.
- There is still no evidence whatsoever that Manziel accepted money for signing.
- Every accusation made, except by the one arrested for dealing drugs, was made anonymously to ESPN by people in a very shady business and who refuse to speak on the record to anyone.

So what does this all boil down to? Johnny, Clowney, Bridgewater and others have signed large amounts of memorabilia which is being authenticated and sold by "brokers". Were they paid? Maybe but there is no evidence of it. And the accusations are being made by shady people, who may have a motive to screw over Manziel because of what happened on eBay and whose profession it is to get college players to somehow sign a bunch of stuff so they can sell it for a profit, which is against NCAA regulations.

If this were another school's player being targeted, I probably wouldn't care much and certainly wouldn't take as much interest. But yes, I would question Schad and Rovell since they have proven they have little, if any, journalistic integrity and I would question the accusations of shady brokers who hide behind anonymity and an illegally made video that no one can see and that the one person who has seen it says nothing on it shows any wrongdoing.
Stemp, I wish I could rep you for this but, msr.

I bolded some of the key parts for those who don't like to read long posts. This story has gotten so complicated, it is hard to follow.

Here is a letter written by a texags poster that has been sent to various ESPN reporters:
Quote:
Mr. XXX,
You are one of my favorite reporters. You are fair, you are honest, and you speak your mind. Your colleague Darren Rovell did an irresponsible thing. NCAA investigations are serious. They affect teams, they affect players, they can ruin careers. When the Manziel story came out I did a ton of research into past cases (Miami, Cam Newton, etc.) to see how long approximately an investigation would take. It was rumored that if the NCAA investigation wasn't complete then A&M may not play Manziel.

I researched the biggest NCAA investigations over the last several years and noticed the mention of a Notice of Inquiry (NOI). What is this? The NCAA gets tons of reports every year (ie. I call the NCAA tomorrow and say I saw X player accepting 40k). The NCAA works with the schools compliance department to look into these issues. There are 100s of these type of interactions done throughout the season. It is NEVER referred to as an NCAA investigation. If the NCAA feels that there is a reason to pursue one of these reports they will file a Notice of Inquiry (NOI) with the school identifying the allegation and list of potential interviewees.

From the NCAA site linked below:
Once the staff receives credible information that a potential major violation occurred, an investigation begins with interviews both on and off campus. A common misperception about enforcement staff interviews is that investigators try to intimidate subjects. That doesn’t happen.

Note here that the NCAA doesn't refer to an initial report (the Manziel situation) as an investigation.

A notice of inquiry has not been sent to Texas A&M. The media said Manziel was being investigated. Again, in my research using the word investigation has always been after an NOI has been received by the school.

I know investigative reporting is not your bag, but I urge you to at least pass this along. The Manziel case was made bigger than it was and the media, fans, and the entire college football world was under the impression the NCAA was investigating Texas A&M(ie. had given the school a NOI). Even the lead insider for Aggie sports (Billy Liucci) was under that impression. Please clarify on the national stage or pass along this info to someone who will.


Helpful Links for Story:

Verify no NOI has been sent?
jcook@athletics.tamu.edu

Overview of NCAA Investigation Process?
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...Investigations

Clarification of Exact Steps in an NCAA investigation?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...thcheckdam.pdf

Past examples of Notice of Inquiry= investigation and being the media standard?
Cam Newton Case- http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/column...ark&id=5767910
Miami- http://www.miami.edu/index.php/ncaa_investigation/
Oregon- http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...56338/32036697
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Old 08-09-2013   #400
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Default Re: Manziel

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
Stemp, I wish I could rep you for this but, msr.
I got him for you.
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