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Old 08-07-2013   #21
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
McCourty was voted 1st Team All Pro by Sporting News and 2nd Team All Pro by the AP. THAT is pro ready.
Yeah.. McCourty had an excellent rookie year & hurt my argument that 1st year corners aren't expected to play at that level.

Heck, I'm glad no one called me on Glover Quin. He was what a 4th round pick & had an excellent (at least very good) rookie season the year before we drafted Kareem.
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Old 08-07-2013   #22
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
He got Megatron when he was already tired from scorching the field. I'm just joking.

You're right, he's def making positive strides and I'm excited. I'm still not ready for JJo to go anywhere yet, but I like what KJax is doing.
They're two different guys & it's going to help us out a lot having both of them.

Jackson (in my mind) is the guy you want on the bigger more physical players.... including Fitzgerald. Jjo is the guy you want on the speed guys.

I think it was 2012 when we played Baltimore twice. The first time, Torrey Smith lit Kj up & Bolden was having his way with Jjo. The second game, we put the more physical Kj on Bolden & the better long range guy on Smith & pretty much held them in check.

But with a guy like Calvin Johnson, or Reggie Wayne Jjo would be my first choice, but I wouldn't mind putting Kj on them & having him check them on the line, early & often. Once they get past him, we'll be in trouble if Jj ain't doing his thang.
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Old 08-07-2013   #23
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

Naaaaaaaaa who here hated KJ ???

Shame on you. Haha

Yes we all know i was the biggest KJ hater, glad i ate crow on that one now he is one hell of a CB
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Old 08-07-2013   #24
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
Naaaaaaaaa who here hated KJ ???

Shame on you. Haha

Yes we all know i was the biggest KJ hater, glad i ate crow on that one now he is one hell of a CB
The amount of crow needing to be eaten concerning KJ would decimate the species. LOL
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Old 08-07-2013   #25
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

I've never had a better tasting plate of crow pie. I was relentless in my criticism. I didn't think he would amount to squat. He still has a little trouble on those deep routes, but we've got help now. If KJ keeps improving he can be one of the best #2's in the NFL.

That's how you shut people like me up - by working your tail off to improve. Kudos to KJ!
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Old 08-07-2013   #26
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

Lets be reasonable people. In 2010 we pretty much hated the entire Texans defense. I mean, 32 out of 32 against the pass will do that to you. Kareem Jackson was just the guy usually in frame when the fan was soiled.
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Old 08-07-2013   #27
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

Kareem Jackson was rated 96th out of 100 CBs in 2010 (>25% of snaps)

Kareem Jackson was rated 13th out of 113 CBs in 2012 (>25% of snaps)

Ridiculous improvement.
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Old 08-07-2013   #28
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Kareem Jackson was rated 96th out of 100 CBs in 2010 (>25% of snaps)

Kareem Jackson was rated 13th out of 113 CBs in 2012 (>25% of snaps)

Ridiculous improvement.
Indeed. That's more than just "Made the leap". That's going from a system where he was put in a position to fail to a system that put him in a position to succeed. Kareem put in the work and got better, no doubt about it. Wade had something to do with that too.
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Old 08-07-2013   #29
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
Naaaaaaaaa who here hated KJ ???

Shame on you. Haha

Yes we all know i was the biggest KJ hater, glad i ate crow on that one now he is one hell of a CB
You could borrow my avatar...
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Old 08-07-2013   #30
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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You could borrow my avatar...
haha thats pretty good
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Old 08-07-2013   #31
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Kareem Jackson was rated 96th out of 100 CBs in 2010 (>25% of snaps)

Kareem Jackson was rated 13th out of 113 CBs in 2012 (>25% of snaps)

Ridiculous improvement.
How did McCourty rate? I'm thinking he declined in that same time. Do you think McCourty got worse in his time in the NFL?
.
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Old 08-07-2013   #32
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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You could borrow my avatar...
Ah, I never knew what that was......nice
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Old 08-07-2013   #33
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
How did McCourty rate? I'm thinking he declined in that same time. Do you think McCourty got worse in his time in the NFL?
.
He basically stayed the same so a high performer.

7th out of 100 CB's in 2010

8th out of 113 CB's in 2012 (basically half his snaps were at CB)

14th out of 88 Safties in 2012
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Old 08-07-2013   #34
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

McCourty was so pro-ready, they finally converted him to safety, letting a journeyman and a rookie 7th rounder man the CB spots.

Come on, get real people.

McCourty is nothing more than a zone or cover two corner; he can't play man for a lick. Just ask the fans and the media up there.
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Old 08-07-2013   #35
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
Kareem tripped twice while you typed this.

This.^^^^ i dont think for some he was hatred except that this was the running joke that hurt
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Old 08-07-2013   #36
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

He was garbage so I hated him. Good for him for improving the way he has.
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Old 08-07-2013   #37
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
He basically stayed the same so a high performer.

7th out of 100 CB's in 2010

8th out of 113 CB's in 2012 (basically half his snaps were at CB)

14th out of 88 Safties in 2012
Dtx, did you look at his 2011 performance. I know Playoffs left out 2011 but it wasn't required for the point he's making.

From PFF
Code:
 For 2011 Season
Covering Ground
And what about yardage … which corner gave up the most this year?
 
Rank Name            Team TA  Rec Yds 
1    Tramon Williams GB   108 61  1034 
2    Devin McCourty  NE   101 62  1004
 
Highest opposing QB rating
Rank  Name           Team  QB Rating
6     Kareem Jackson HST   110.9
8     Devin McCourty NE    106.2
As 76 said, man coverage is not strength. From another PFF article. Bill realized what he has and moved him. Kareem got better.
Quote:
McCourty 2010:
Again, McCourty’s biggest asset last season was his ability to avoid the big play. He was asked to play a lot of “off” man and zone concepts and he really excelled at covering receivers deep and keeping completed passes in front of him.

McCourty 2011:
When discussing the Patriots’ change in defensive philosophy for 2011, ... possibly due to inexperience at safety, he rolled the dice by playing more man-to-man press coverage, and McCourty was out of his element.

Bottom Line
After McCourty showed himself to be one of the bright young CBs in the league last season, he has clearly taken a step back. At first it seemed the change in scheme was to blame, but his tackling struggles are also alarming....
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Old 08-07-2013   #38
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
McCourty was so pro-ready, they finally converted him to safety, letting a journeyman and a rookie 7th rounder man the CB spots.

Come on, get real people.
There's a difference between pro ready and ceiling. KJ has a higher ceiling for sure, in part because of his ability to play man coverage. But McCourty didn't just make the Pro Bowl in his rookie year, he was All Pro. His contributions to his team were WAY above and beyond KJ's. THAT is pro ready. He came into the pros, stepped in immediately, played all 16 games, and was an All Pro.

None of that matters now except to highlight the BS that Kubiak and Co. kept spewing.
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Old 08-07-2013   #39
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Kareem was awful when he first got here. He was not that good his second season either when Jason Allen was taking some snaps from him.

Last year was his first complete season where he really showed his ability.

But really, even as a rookie Kareem was pretty good at plays that happened in front of him or withing the first 10-15 yards. It's when he had to flip his hips and run that he struggled. Long passes where not kind to him.

Last year though, he was 100% better at deep passes that he had been. His confidence just grew once he felt he could defend deep down the field.
These were always my thoughts on Kareem. He was always good with short routes and could tackle pretty well. He just needed some experience in the NFL against deep routes. I was telling people to just wait for him to develop.
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Old 08-07-2013   #40
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Default Re: Remember when we all hated Kareem Jackson?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
There's a difference between pro ready and ceiling. KJ has a higher ceiling for sure, in part because of his ability to play man coverage. But McCourty didn't just make the Pro Bowl in his rookie year, he was All Pro. His contributions to his team were WAY above and beyond KJ's. THAT is pro ready. He came into the pros, stepped in immediately, played all 16 games, and was an All Pro.

None of that matters now except to highlight the BS that Kubiak and Co. kept spewing.
When you have a zone corner or a cover two corner (who can play man-under), it means that you have to keep two safeties back for a good portion of the time.
When the corner has more help, his job is easier because he doesn't have to worry about getting back deep.

On a few occasions toward the end of his rookie year when Belichik tried to put a little more on McCourty's plate, that was when he was exposed.
That was what also happened in his second year, prompted Belichik to start playing him some at safety.

And he continued to struggle in his third year, promting a "permanent" move to safety.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...devin-mccourty

Some says his Rookie's year was beginner's luck:

http://thesportsmenu.com/home/?p=3560

What I saw when I watched each of his games the last 2-1/2 years is that when he has helped, he can play. But playing with help a majority of the time is NOT Pro-ready.

This is nothing new to the more knowledgeable Patriots fans; they had talked about it at length sometimes in his mid-second year. Some guys even break down his poor plays with videos (and not just screen shots like I do, LOL).
I had shown one of them last year; it's somewhere in one of the threads.
You don't have to take my words for anything.
It's not a secret. When a guy can't play corner in his third year, how can he be Pro-Ready as a rookie. Take a deep breath and think about it.
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