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View Poll Results: How do you grade the first selection in the first round?
A 23 28.75%
B 31 38.75%
C 9 11.25%
D 2 2.50%
F 15 18.75%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-05-2013   #61
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

Yeah. I had an issue with grading a draft for awhile.

But then I realized what the real purpose of it is. It's a way for someone to say, "I think this group of players is going to perform at such and such a level based on my expectations. I think that this team improved itself based on my perception of the team's needs and the players' abilities." It's a way for someone to say, "I think these teams improved and these teams got worse."

I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a totally subjective grade (as most grades on players and drafts are even after all the players have played out their careers.) After 3 or 4 years, you can still grade it but it's still going to be subjective and different people are still going to come out with wildly different grades.
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Old 06-05-2013   #62
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Yeah. I had an issue with grading a draft for awhile.
I never understood why anyone would take issue with it. Every year, for as long as there's been a draft these players are scrutinized, graded, & ranked.

That's why we're thrilled when we get a first round WR as opposed to a 4th, that's why we're happy when we get a LT in the first as opposed to the bottom of the third.

Whether we know it or not, admit it or not, we all value 1st round players more than 6th round players. We take offense when someone says our first round LT is graded as a 2nd round prospect, because our grade is much more generous than that.

We love that our 3rd round OLB had a 1st round grade, makes us feel like our team got a deal... or at least true value.
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Old 06-05-2013   #63
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I never understood why anyone would take issue with it. Every year, for as long as there's been a draft these players are scrutinized, graded, & ranked.
Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.
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Old 06-05-2013   #64
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.
Exactly...

I don't think anyone that grades drafts here is under the impression that their grade is the final say.



If someone graded Duane Brown as a C when he was drafted...Ok...They were wrong...Really wrong...

But we're all wrong at times. It's just predictions based on what you think you know.
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Old 06-05-2013   #65
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I never understood why anyone would take issue with it.
I don't either.

This really isn't a difficult concept. People either like the pick based on their perception of it, or they don't like the pick...Or they simply don't know/have no opinion yet

If you like it you give it a grade based on how much you like it. If you don't like it...same applies...

And if you're one of those people that have no opinion on the picks...Then you just don't have an opinion...

That's why there is no consensus on draft grades...

You evaluate players before the draft...Aterwards once you see where they were selected you grade the selection based on what you think of said player. It's no different than any other analysis or prediction when it comes to player evaluation. If you don't like the draft grades after the draft, then I don't understand what interest you'd have in the evaluations before the draft. It's the same damned thing.

But if you do enjoy reading other's analysis of players just take it with a grain of salt and enjoy seeing someone else's perspective. We're going to be evaluating this team for a long time and if you don't like projections then this place probably isn't good for your health.

No need to passively bash people that have an opinion by stating that having an opinion on the matter is ludicrous. If you don't like projections and opinions just stay out and keep the thread clear for those that enjoy that type of thing. Please.
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Old 06-05-2013   #66
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.
I don't know if this makes sense, but while I don't see a problem in grading the players (it's kind of necessary if they're to be selected in any other manner than completely random), I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.

Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.

There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.
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Old 06-05-2013   #67
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I don't know if this makes sense, but while I don't see a problem in grading the players (it's kind of necessary if they're to be selected in any other manner than completely random), I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.

Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.

There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.
Yeah, but you're saying you know the team/scheme needs and the players drafted better than the professionals either way. And that's one way to look at it but I still think it's better to look at it like... "Because of this draft, I believe this team has improved" or not. It's just a prediction of how that team should do in the future based on the sum of the predictions of the performance of the players chosen.
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Old 06-05-2013   #68
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.
Hmmmm... see I was looking at the draft grade thing from a different angle. I was thinking the grade represented
(1) how well our team did addressing a need,
(2) how well the draftee fit that need, and
(3) how that draftee stacked up against all the other folks available who could have filled said need.

And you can make those assessments without the draftee ever having played a single down.
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Old 06-05-2013   #69
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.
I understand.

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.
I agree with a lot of this. Which is why my problem with draft grades isn't so much about the grading, but more about who is doing the grading. I'm fine with McShay, Kipper, or Mayock giving their player analysis, player rankings, or player grades.

But I don't like it when guys like that give a draft grade. They have no idea how an NFL team works. How an NFL team assesses their own talent, their needs, the development of their team, who's coming along next season, who's not. Who they plan to resign... all kinds of things & then, how the team proceeds from there.

I'd rather see a John McClain draft grade than a Mayock..... not that I do not respect Mayock, but he couldn't give two flips about the Texans, at least not until we win the Super Bowl. McClain... I'd like to see how out of touch he is with the Texans.

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There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.
Exactly, but I do like listening to draft analysis from Casserly & Lombardi & Billick, & Mooch & those guys. I even like listening to analysis from Jamie Dukes & Dione Sanders. At least they know what it smells like on the inside of a locker room.
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Old 06-06-2013   #70
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Hmmmm... see I was looking at the draft grade thing from a different angle. I was thinking the grade represented
(1) how well our team did addressing a need,
(2) how well the draftee fit that need, and
(3) how that draftee stacked up against all the other folks available who could have filled said need.

And you can make those assessments without the draftee ever having played a single down.
I don't think you CAN make those assessments until after the player has played. You can make predictions but they're only how you, personally, feel about the players. And that's what the draft grade ends up being... what YOU think the needs are, how YOU think the draftees fill those needs, and how YOU think other players that were available would have fit better.

Personally, this year I would have rated the ILB a higher priority than Smithiak did and I would have gone after an ILB... but I can't really say how these guys would have fit into Wade's schemes and I couldn't really say whether moving Brooks Reed to the middle was an option.

After seeing the way our draft fell, it looks to me like moving Brooks Reed inside was part of the plan all along. That's not the way I would have played it but I'm OK with that strategy.
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Old 06-06-2013   #71
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

I don't get this contention reverberating throughout these forums in regards to draft grades. It's just for fun & to express ones opinions not unlike anything else here discussed. I haven't graded Brennan per say even though he fell perfectly slot wise where Texans drafted him & what they needed. My concern is his health & ability to show up on a consistent basis Sunday to Sunday to Monday to Thursday back to Sunday again. Dude is a starting caliber RT in the NFL but there is that big IF. Because of that I would give the edge to Quessenberry. Regardless what position he ends up playing (my guess is LG) he will garner more snaps per season & enhance his position on the team.

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Old 06-06-2013   #72
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I don't get this contention reverberating throughout these forums in regards to draft grades. It's just for fun & to express ones opinions not unlike anything else here discussed. I haven't graded Brennan per say even though he fell perfectly slot wise where Texans drafted him & what they needed. My concern is his health & ability to show up on a consistent basis Sunday to Sunday to Monday to Thursday back to Sunday again. Dude is a starting caliber RT in the NFL but there is that big IF. Because of that I would give the edge to Quessenberry. Regardless what position he ends up playing (my guess is LG) he will garner more snaps per season & enhance his position on the team.

Some people dont know how to take different opinions than their own in this section. This section is very different than the draft section, where differing opinions are embrace.

If Williams is healthy, (Big if) he's the Texans starting RT. Very talented guy. Quessenberry could start at RT and be better than Newton/Harris was last yr. IMHO But Quessenberry has a chance to be an outstanding OG and will probably replace W.Smith in 2014.
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Old 06-06-2013   #73
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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I don't think you CAN make those assessments until after the player has played. You can make predictions but they're only how you, personally, feel about the players. And that's what the draft grade ends up being... what YOU think the needs are, how YOU think the draftees fill those needs, and how YOU think other players that were available would have fit better.

Personally, this year I would have rated the ILB a higher priority than Smithiak did and I would have gone after an ILB... but I can't really say how these guys would have fit into Wade's schemes and I couldn't really say whether moving Brooks Reed to the middle was an option.

After seeing the way our draft fell, it looks to me like moving Brooks Reed inside was part of the plan all along. That's not the way I would have played it but I'm OK with that strategy.
But what you outlined is a different grading system or criteria. What I'm speaking to is how perceived needs were met or failed to be met.

How many players actually stick with the team, make significant contributions, and/or become solid starters is a totally different assessment. And that one cannot be made until the season starts. Sometimes not for 2,3, or 4 yrs down the line. Duane Brown and K.Jax spring immediately to mind. Those picks look a helluva lot better now than they did at draft time (D.B's case) or after the rookie year (K.Jax case).

The draft grading I'm talking about is much simpler. It boils down to this: Did we address team needs as best we could in the order the grading person thought they should have been addressed?

For example... More than one poster thought we should go NT, WR, and/or ILB early on. We didn't; at least not completely. To those folks, if they stay true to their draft thinking, this draft was only partially successful. We got our WR but only partially addressed ILB by getting pass rushers so Brooks could go inside and totally failed to address NT.

However, if 4-6 out of the 10 guys we drafted end up contributing significantly and/or become solid starters for years to come (and team performance doesn't suffer), then the draft could be considered a success even though no NTs or ILBs were picked.

All that to say, there's more than one way to view this draft grading thing.
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Old 06-06-2013   #74
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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All that to say, there's more than one way to view this draft grading thing.
I don't watch college football. But everyone knows that I'm a diehard Texans fan. After the draft I get people asking me how I thought the draft was.

I tell them I don't have a clue who the players are, but the guys who know their sht on TT.com think we've got a good haul, or that we got value, or that we may have reached, or that we didn't get what we needed, or whatever....

Draft grades help me not only form an opinion of our draft, but also "see" where our team is heading.
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Old 06-06-2013   #75
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

Considering he's been on the field all of an hour or two, I'd give his 1st three week quiz a D-.
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Old 07-23-2013   #76
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

Drew Dougherty ‏@DoughertyDrew
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If Williams is on PUP after 2nd roster cut, he will remain on PUP until at least day after conclusion of Week 6. Couldn't play until Week 7.

Williams can take part in contact drills during camp if he's pulled off PUP.

With #Texans OL Brennan Williams on PUP, he's limited to non-contact work w/club trainer or physician, and can attend meetings.
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Quote:
So #Texans can take Williams off PUP if he gets healthy during camp. Whether he needs to be on it to start season can be determined later.
James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN
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The active/PUP list for TC & the reserve/PUP list during the regular season are different. A player on active/PUP can be removed at any time
PDS ‏@PatDStat
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Did see Williams in mandatory mini camp. He was working well on the side field, and running. #Texans

Would expect to see Gardner and Quessenberry to also work at RT too. #Texans

#Texans will shift around again at RT. Newton and Harris will be doing the same thing like last season.

Brennan Williams to Start the Season on the PUP
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Old 07-24-2013   #77
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

Another one of those injuries that Gary calls minor that turns out to be anything but minor. Next time Gary says an injury is minor you have to assume that he is talking out his butt. Or he's a dumba** who doesn't know what the Dr.'s are telling him.

That, or the Texans medical team is incompetent.
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Old 07-24-2013   #78
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Another one of those injuries that Gary calls minor that turns out to be anything but minor. Next time Gary says an injury is minor you have to assume that he is talking out his butt. Or he's a dumba** who doesn't know what the Dr.'s are telling him.

That, or the Texans medical team is incompetent.
To be fair, the player was saying he was so close to being cleared that he'll just miss OTAs with supposed support from an MRI, then he ends up getting the knee scoped.
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Old 07-24-2013   #79
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

I know BW wasn't supposed to be a starter this year but each year we've seen the importance of O-line depth and some extensive playing time this season is important for his development. Missing OTAs and minicamp just puts him further and further behind. I fear BW will spend his first year in the NFL on either the PUP list or practice squad. And what is it with 3rd round picks the past couple years, we either drafting poorly or just terribly unlucky with the amount of productivity we're getting from them. I expect more from 3rd round picks. I also agree with SteelB when it comes to Kubiak's statements regarding player injuries.
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Old 07-24-2013   #80
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
If he doesn't play in minicamp, he likely has suffered a meniscus tear that they are trying to treat nonsurgically.
He missed minicamp......

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
"No major damage" (or as has been referred to previously "injury which will not require surgery")doesn't rule out lesser damage. Note that the date of the above report was May 11........over 2 weeks ago.
His injury was again greater than what they initially assessed that it was........he required surgery......

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
To be fair, the player was saying he was so close to being cleared that he'll just miss OTAs with supposed support from an MRI, then he ends up getting the knee scoped.
He will be a rookie that will have missed the most part of the offseason/preseason..........Honestly, how valuable can he be even if he returns to this team later this season since he can't practice with the team during preseason and/or season PUP for whatever reason?
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