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Old 07-23-2013   #41
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
This is exactly what everyone was saying about Flacco before last season.
Flacco has won a playoff game every year he's been in the league. I will admit,up until 2011 vs the pats,he's had some clunkers. You can't compare flacco to schaub because flacco has great ability. When I say that I mean his physical ability can transcend plays. He can threaten every blade of grass on the field. He's not a physically restricted qb
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Old 07-23-2013   #42
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Flacco has won a playoff game every year he's been in the league. I will admit,up until 2011 vs the pats,he's had some clunkers. You can't compare flacco to schaub because flacco has great ability. When I say that I mean his physical ability can transcend plays. He can threaten every blade of grass on the field. He's not a physically restricted qb
the QB position is 60/40 mental (or something like that), many QBs wash out in this league because they don't have the mental fortitude to get the job done, despite having the ability to "threaten every blade of grass."

He had a 66 QB rating against Philly, 55 against KC, 45 vs the Texans, 75 against Pittsburgh, 62 vs Pittsburgh, 76 against Denver, & a 62 against Cincinnati.... so he's put up some clunkers in 2012 despite his physical ability.
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Old 07-23-2013   #43
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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the QB position is 60/40 mental (or something like that), many QBs wash out in this league because they don't have the mental fortitude to get the job done, despite having the ability to "threaten every blade of grass."

He had a 66 QB rating against Philly, 55 against KC, 45 vs the Texans, 75 against Pittsburgh, 62 vs Pittsburgh, 76 against Denver, & a 62 against Cincinnati.... so he's put up some clunkers in 2012 despite his physical ability.
I've been saying this since the beginning of time, but the system guys play in and who their coaches are matters.

Now, I don't know much about what Jim Caldwell does to make his players more productive, but I do know that when he took over for them last year Flacco seemed to play a whole lot better.

Yes the game involves a lot of mental ability, but coaches should still have systems that bring out the most in their players.

I don't think you can compare QB's without taking into account the system they are playing in and who they have coaching them. And sometimes good coaches make mistakes with guys. That's not to say that players don't deserve some of the blame for their own shortcomings, but the situation a guy gets put in can matter a whole lot.

Put a guy in position to succeed and he'll look a whole lot smarter.
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Old 07-23-2013   #44
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Now, I don't know much about what Jim Caldwell does to make his players more productive, but I do know that when he took over for them last year Flacco seemed to play a whole lot better.
I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.
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Old 07-23-2013   #45
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.
This might be a little more compelling if Cam Cameron hadn't been the OC in Baltimore since the 2008 season - which coincidentally was Flacco's rookie year.
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Old 07-23-2013   #46
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.
I hope AJ doesn't go back 6 years. He only played in 9 games that season.
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Old 07-23-2013   #47
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.
Sounds like you are trying to rationalize being a Texans fan to me.

Whether or not Kubiak and Schaub keep trucking a long and Flacco and Caldwell flame out...Is not relevant at this point in time.

Caldwell and Flacco (even if just a spark; lust...and not full fledged love till death do they part) have won a superbowl. They've reached the peak. They've climbed that mountain and planted their flag.

Even if it ends in an ugly divorce they'll still have little Jr. that they can both be proud of.


This long, steady, good relationship that Kubiak and Schaub have means zilch to me if they don't win that ultimate prize.


What is the ultimate goal here? To have a team that can win a lot of games in the regular season and look pretty doing it? Or have a team that can win superbowls?

I'd rather be the Giants from the past 5 years than the Patriots.
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Old 07-23-2013   #48
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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So, the question is still the same. Did we or did we not have holes on our team? Did Schaub compensate for our offensive deficiencies or not? Foster had a good season, but our run game wasn't as potent as it needed to be & our receivers catch rate (including Foster) took a giant step back.

Still, Matt threw for 4000 yards, basically with one WR.
I'll take a stab at it and say, no, he didn't. I say it but still think he's capable of winning a Superbowl for us because I simply think he's the type of player that needs more tools around him versus otherwise. Plus how his contract is setup money wise he's not going anywhere for at least 2 more years so I find it all moot but we do need to talk about something until the season starts, heh.

If Schaub compensated we wouldn't have had such an offensive meltdown from week 14 on. We went nine quarters without an offensive touchdown while playing defenses that were no better than medicore including scoring 6 points at home against the Vikings. That is not really compensating for issues in other places. I think Schaub had a better game against the Pats in the end then some give him credit for though. I saw more strength in his passes that than normally. Yet even with that thought the play that hangs in my mind is when he breaks away from the rush and is completely clear yet throws the ball away instead of looking to make a play. .

Secondly, you seem too hung up on the 4000 yards but have to remember something. He got a chunk of that in two games against rather piss poor secondaries at that. To get 4k in passing you need to average about 250 per game. Other than those two games (Jaguars/Lions) Schaub was only averaging 226 yards per game so was not on track for another 4k. That's why I find that number last year a bit deceiving. He had 842 yards alone in those two games.

And not sure what you mean on catch percentages taking a giant step back. Some sites have this stat slightly different but generally they are usually no more than 1.0-2.0 off one another.

Top targets (30+ targets)

2012 - 72.3
2011 - 68.5
2010 - 70.6

So there wasn't any massive drop. Now did he lack targets? Yes, he did. Jones departing hit us there because at least he had three receivers compared to last year of having only 2 of them. But there were no massive changes in catch percentages except for the guys with less than 30 targets. So probably should say he lacked viable receiving threats.

Again, not saying Schaub is not a good QB because I think he is and solid enough to get the job done. But I have not seen him really improve anyone offensively or make them a bit more than they really are. In truth, how many QB's can we say make those around them better? I think we can probably count them on one hand with maybe an exception here and there.

In other words, we're looking to hard to make Schaub more than he is. He doesn't have to be a Drew Brees, Rodgers, Manning family member, Brady or whatever. Would love if he was but he doesn't need to be for us to win. I don't think Flacco makes anyone better around him and right now he's polishing his ring.
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Old 07-23-2013   #49
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Thank you. Newsome wanted a deal prior to last season. Didn't. Got worse deal.

Yes, Ravens won a SB but Flacco had a terrible regular season. Worse than Schaub's. Maybe the SB win, Caldwell helps grow confidence, but I wouldn't feel good about that contract at all. Flacco is a maddeningly, inconsistent QB to watch. Sometimes beautiful throws, sometime immobile Frankenflacco in pocket, not capable of basic bread and butter passes.

You have to look at alternatives if you are a GM because you live in the real world. Much of league has hot garbage at high price as their QB.
This x100.

I'm not a huge Schaub fan and am 100% already on the draft-his-replacement-in-2014 bandwagon, but the Flacco deal is awful, awful, awful.

I just keep thinking back to his 48% 147YDS 1TD 2INT meltdown against us last year and wonder how many ulcers Ozzie got inking that deal with him. I mean, don't get me wrong, he had no choice, but, oy.
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Old 07-23-2013   #50
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Whether or not Kubiak and Schaub keep trucking a long and Flacco and Caldwell flame out...Is not relevant at this point in time.

Caldwell and Flacco (even if just a spark; lust...and not full fledged love till death do they part) have won a superbowl. They've reached the peak. They've climbed that mountain and planted their flag.

Even if it ends in an ugly divorce they'll still have little Jr. that they can both be proud of.
My point is that we've heard the "Flacco's figured it out" thing before & he's always reverted back to inconsistent play. We spoke about Flacco like Christian Ponder, or Jake Locker. I bet that guy surfaces again in 2013, that's all I'm saying.

Right now, people are putting Flacco in the Eli, Ben QB tier. At the end of 2013, we might have him in the Dilfer, Johnson tier.
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Old 07-23-2013   #51
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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My point is that we've heard the "Flacco's figured it out" thing before & he's always reverted back to inconsistent play. We spoke about Flacco like Christian Ponder, or Jake Locker. I bet that guy surfaces again in 2013, that's all I'm saying.

Right now, people are putting Flacco in the Eli, Ben QB tier. At the end of 2013, we might have him in the Dilfer, Johnson tier.
He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.

But my point is, that he's proven that when it matters most he can step it up through a tough stretch of games and help his team win.

Doesn't mean he'll do it every time, but we know he can.

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

And back to my original point about system...There's really 0 excuse for why he shouldn't be able to play well when it gets tough late in the year other than his own limitations or injuries. We know that this system works.

With Flacco, we don't know that his old system worked for him. We do know that his new system did.


Really there's no comparing the two at this point. Flacco has played well in a stretch of big games. Schaub hasn't. That's really the end of it right there.

Until Schaub can play well in tough games down the stretch then you can't put him on Flacco's level...IMO...
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Old 07-23-2013   #52
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.
To get back on track, this is where we started.

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I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.
The book on Flacco & Caldwell is still open.
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Old 07-23-2013   #53
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.
This post is terrible. Qb's that are a "resounding" weak link don't take their teams to the playoffs & put up the consistent numbers he has over his tenure here in houston without having some kind of positive effect on the players around them. But ok, i'll bite.....

was Flacco making players around him better when their offense was trash and inconsistent all last season? trash and inconsistent enough to get a guy regarded around the NFL as an offensive guru fired late in the season....which is pretty much unheard of in the NFL?

Was Flacco making guys around him better when he was completing less than 60% of his passes mid way thru the season & we proceeded to dismantle him when he came to reliant?

Was he making players around him better when he kept failing to get past Pittsburgh in the playoffs....and then later the Pats?

Wake up...He got on a nice run & rode it all the way to the SB...and as we've seen numerous times in the superbowl era, that can happen to any decent to good qb....See Eli Manning.

& If there's a qb whoose WR's make him look good & he depends on them to make him look "adequate" as you say, it's Joe Flacco. How many times did we see him just throw the ball up for grabs in the playoffs to guys that really weren't open and his WR's went up & made plays for him? Either that or the defense had a brain fart and allowed him to get away with crap that would've otherwise been a dead play or TO. I can think of at least 4 of those type of plays that were critical to their playoff run last year.


& for all the "off schedule" play making you guys keep speaking of...well, there's a guy in Dallas who tries to do that all the time....For whatever reason though, he's still not considered an elite qb.
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Old 07-23-2013   #54
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.

But my point is, that he's proven that when it matters most he can step it up through a tough stretch of games and help his team win.

Doesn't mean he'll do it every time, but we know he can.

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

And back to my original point about system...There's really 0 excuse for why he shouldn't be able to play well when it gets tough late in the year other than his own limitations or injuries. We know that this system works.

With Flacco, we don't know that his old system worked for him. We do know that his new system did.


Really there's no comparing the two at this point. Flacco has played well in a stretch of big games. Schaub hasn't. That's really the end of it right there.

Until Schaub can play well in tough games down the stretch then you can't put him on Flacco's level...IMO...
Flacco wasn't exactly lighting it up in tough games down the stretch until the last 2 years...i seem to recall lots of those Pittsburgh games his play was putrid to downright awful...He needed alot of seasoning to get to the point he got to last year......and even then it still threatened to not be enough.

Schaub and the Texans team as a whole just got to the point Flacco was drafted into and has been at his entire career lets at least give him a real opportunity.
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Old 07-23-2013   #55
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Flacco wasn't exactly lighting it up in tough games down the stretch until the last 2 years...
I don't know if you care if I respond or not, but I can't talk about this stuff with you if you aren't reading what I wrote.
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Old 07-23-2013   #56
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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The book on Flacco & Caldwell is still open.
I don't understand what point you're making with that though.

They've already won a superbowl.

The book still being open means it can go positively or negatively from this point. And what I'm saying is that even if it all goes to hell, they've already accomplished the ultimate together. That can't be taken away.

If they do more positive things together that just adds to their legacy.
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Old 07-23-2013   #57
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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I don't know if you care if I respond or not, but I can't talk about this stuff with you if you aren't reading what I wrote.
I am reading what you wrote...& for the most part i usually agree with you, i just don't agree that the 2 still can't be compared is all. Flacco winning a SB ring doesn't change my opinion of him as a qb. I need to see him duplicate what he did before i consider him any better than just a good qb. It doesn't have to be a SB win, but at least another SB appearance where he is the chief catalyst.

Aside from that, tough stretches of big games are relative to each guy and their respective teams.
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Old 07-23-2013   #58
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I am reading what you wrote...& for the most part i usually agree with you, i just don't agree that the 2 still can't be compared is all. Flacco winning a SB ring doesn't change my opinion of him as a qb. I need to see him duplicate what he did before i consider him any better than just a good qb. It doesn't have to be a SB win, but at least another SB appearance where he is the chief catalyst.

Aside from that, tough stretches of big games are relative to each guy and their respective teams.
Ok...I get what you are saying.
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Old 07-23-2013   #59
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

This is also 1 helluva qualifier too...If you're going by this, well, there are only like 5 qb's in the league who can do this........b/c they've actually done it.


Brady
P. Manning
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rothlisberger
& now Flacco
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Old 07-23-2013   #60
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Default Re: One post that has everything about Schaub

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
This is also 1 helluva qualifier too...If you're going by this, well, there are only like 5 qb's in the league who can do this........b/c they've actually done it.


Brady
P. Manning
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rothlisberger
& now Flacco
What do those QB's have in common?


You want to know what one hell of a qualifier is? Winning a Superbowl. There's only one of those handed out a year.

And I'm not saying I don't believe Schaub can do it because he hasn't done it. I'm saying I don't believe he can do it because I don't believe he can do it.

I'm anxiously waiting to be proven wrong. I want nothing more than Schaub to make all the doubters eat dirt and give the NFL a big stfu and suck these in late December. That would be awesome.

I don't believe he has it in him, but my belief has 0 to do with whether or not he actually can.
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