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Old 07-09-2013   #21
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Was Jjo second? I know some who would have been happy getting Brandon Carr instead. Worked out great for us so far, & while talented, Jjo was nowhere near the star Dwight Howard is in the NBA.

Jjo is like Harden..... an up & comer, could be special player.

Howard is more like Ed Reed, been there done that, without the gray.
According to WalterFootball, the FA CB rankings that year were:


1. Nnamdi Asomugha (5 stars)
2. Johnathon Joseph (4.5 stars)
3. Champ Bailey (4.5 stars)
4. Brandon Carr (RFA) (4 stars)
5. Brent Grimes (RFA) (4 stars)
6. Chris Carr (3.5 stars)
7. Nate Clements (3.5 stars)

Danieal Manning was a 4 star FA and ranked 3rd behind Eric Weddle and Dawan Landry.
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Old 07-09-2013   #22
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.

Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.
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Old 07-09-2013   #23
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.

Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.
Thanks! As a fan of both Texans and Rockets (and hopefully a resurrected fan in future of Astros), I have thoroughly enjoyed this offseason more than others. We could also compare Ric Smith and Morey as both have detractors and supporters with both teams being in playoffs and possibly poised for a championship run. Interesting players on both teams with weaker positions on rosters noted. Also will be fun and hopefully exciting to watch further player moves.
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Old 07-09-2013   #24
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

Jjo didn't have one pro-bowl to his credit, not one All-pro. We knew he was young, we knew he had talent, we knew he could play the position & could possibly be a star. If Kareem Jackson hit the market today, people would pretty much think of him the way we thought about Jjo.

Johnathan Joseph was arguably the second best CB of that FA period.

Dwight Howard could have been a FA last year. He would have been considered the best Center available. He could have been a FA the year before. He would have been considered the best Center available. If he's a FA next year, he will be considered the best Center available.

I love Jjo & I'm glad he's a Texan. But he was nowhere near the star that Dwight Howard is. There's no way he was a bigger FA signing.

Better? That can be argued. More productive.... we'll have to wait & see. But signing Asomugha would have been "equivalent" to signing Howard. Drew Brees would have been equivalent to signing Howard. Heaven forbid if Jj Watt its the FA market, whoever signs him, that would be equivalent to landing Dwight Howard.
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Old 07-10-2013   #25
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.
I'll have to concede that the Howard acquisition has renewed my interest in the Rockets also. I had written them off in 2010 and again in 2011. Then we got Harden and made the playoffs once more. Now we have a true big man again, and I'm definitely interested. At least enough to watch and see which Howard shows up. If Superman shows up, we will be a force in the West. If he's not, then we're pretty much were we where last year; good enough to make the playoffs but not much else.

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Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.
I think J-Jo and Manning solidified the secondary and, to some degree, accelerated the progression/improvement of K-Jax as a solid CB.

Again, it boils down to whether the OP's question is regarding the resume each respective guy brought to the team or the eventual improvement his arrival actually caused. Howard wins the resume' question, no doubt. His impact remains to be seen.
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Old 07-10-2013   #26
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I'll have to concede that the Howard acquisition has renewed my interest in the Rockets also. I had written them off in 2010 and again in 2011. Then we got Harden and made the playoffs once more. Now we have a true big man again, and I'm definitely interested. At least enough to watch and see which Howard shows up. If Superman shows up, we will be a force in the West. If he's not, then we're pretty much were we where last year; good enough to make the playoffs but not much else.


I think J-Jo and Manning solidified the secondary and, to some degree, accelerated the progression/improvement of K-Jax as a solid CB.

Again, it boils down to whether the OP's question is regarding the resume each respective guy brought to the team or the eventual improvement his arrival actually caused. Howard wins the resume' question, no doubt. His impact remains to be seen.
As the original poster, I will refer back to OP.

"Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance. "
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Old 07-10-2013   #27
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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As the original poster, I will refer back to OP.

"Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance. "
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I saw that. Don't know how you "balance" two years worth of data with no data.

The great things folks did elsewhere hasn't always traveled with them to Houston. Ahman Green had a good resume'. So did Charles Barkley. Neither did much to get those teams into championship contention. J. Lin was All-ESPN when in NY, kinda fizzled when he came back to Houston. Hence, my wait and see position.
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Old 07-10-2013   #28
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I saw that. Don't know how you "balance" two years worth of data with no data.

The great things folks did elsewhere hasn't always traveled with them to Houston. Ahman Green had a good resume'. So did Charles Barkley. Neither did much to get those teams into championship contention. J. Lin was All-ESPN when in NY, kinda fizzled when he came back to Houston. Hence, my wait and see position.
My thought was to not use JJ's two seasons to influence a decision compared to Howard with no history with Rockets. In other words, compare Joseph at the time he was signed to Howard's signing with no games yet played for either Houston team.
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Old 07-11-2013   #29
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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Bigger in terms of name recognition - Howard.

Who i think will ultimately be bigger in terms of impact - Joseph.
you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?
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Old 07-11-2013   #30
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

Kareem was a better player for us last year than Joseph.
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Old 07-12-2013   #31
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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My thought was to not use JJ's two seasons to influence a decision compared to Howard with no history with Rockets. In other words, compare Joseph at the time he was signed to Howard's signing with no games yet played for either Houston team.
in that case, it's Howard, no question. Resume', name recognition, media attention... Howard wins hands down.
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Old 07-12-2013   #32
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?
I can only assume that you are refering to Joseph? Please expound.
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Old 07-12-2013   #33
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?
WTF does that even mean? I picked J-Jo over Howard in terms of impact b/c his impact is likely to be felt more and be far greater from game to game and season than Howard's is/will be imo. That's largely b/c of the disparity in games between the 2 leagues.....1game playoff vs. best of 7 series results etc...

- 1 single int by J Jo. has the potential to change a game completely.....................at any time. That works in reverse too.

- 1 single play by Dwight Howard won't have that impact from game to game..............unless the conditions are right...i.e. a few seconds left on the clock and he comes up with a game winning shot, block, or steal.

& lets be real here, J Jo's impact in 2011 was far greater than any defensive player we had on the team at that point. People forget he ended the season with 4 ints, but he should've had at least 1 more int and 2 more TD's..........all from the steelers game which were called back due to penalties on Manning and Watt. The late int return for TD 1 and the blocked punt return. We were also dead last in pass defense 2010 and vaulted to #3 in 2011.

Even if you don't give him any credit for the tutelage of K-jax, and you take into account Wade and Manning also coming here, we were/are still immearsurably better in the secondary with him than we were without him....even if he wasn't 100% last year.

With Howard, i see the team being better defensively, and record wise...i just don't see us being that much better than we were last year with him in the playoffs.
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Old 07-12-2013   #34
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Default Re: Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?

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WTF does that even mean? I picked J-Jo over Howard in terms of impact b/c his impact is likely to be felt more and be far greater from game to game and season than Howard's is/will be imo. That's largely b/c of the disparity in games between the 2 leagues.....1game playoff vs. best of 7 series results etc...
I think he is saying adding Howard to the Rockets make them a Title contender. If the Texans are a Championship contender, Joseph is a much smaller part of that than Dwight is for the Rockets.

Harden & Howard=> Rockets are a Contender

Trade Asik, Lin, Parsons..... anyone but Harden & the Rockets are a contender.


Jjo was our second best CB last season. Howard will never be the 2nd best Center on the Rockets.
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