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Old 06-29-2013   #21
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
the current administration has been pretty good at letting players walk and getting zero compensation before their talents completely fall off. Winston's pass pro was starting to decline rapidly and briesel could labeled injury-prone. The running game would have likely been better with both of those guys last year however it was a calculated risk that might pay off if newton and brooks play well this year.

There is one way to beat the read-option.... Hit the qb often and hard. With the way the nfl is protecting qb's it may take some time to break down that offense, but it will happen. Defenses will just have to adjust and hit the qb every single play when it is a run, which is completely legal. If the rules are changed even further to protect running qb's then defenses will have to rely on raw speed to beat it.
fify.
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Old 06-29-2013   #22
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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fify.
Still mad about Winston?
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Old 06-30-2013   #23
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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Still mad about Winston?
The only thing I was mad about is they just cut the guy instead of working a trade. Getting a 7th rounder for him is still better than nothing.

I was not a fan of Winston.
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Old 07-01-2013   #24
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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The only thing I was mad about is they just cut the guy instead of working a trade. Getting a 7th rounder for him is still better than nothing.

I was not a fan of Winston.
I look at that as more of a PR move with other players. By cutting him, they allowed him to pick and choose his next team and to negotiate the best contract he could get.

If they traded him to a bad team, he could have bitched and moaned about that to other players. "They screwed me! They could have sent me to a better team! Wah wah wah." But they didn't do that.

Players should look at that and think that the Texans treat their players OK even when they move on.
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Old 07-01-2013   #25
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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I look at that as more of a PR move with other players. By cutting him, they allowed him to pick and choose his next team and to negotiate the best contract he could get.
I don't think we should get into the habit of looking out for the player's best interests in these situations.

I think they might have gotten ahead of themselves. They knew he wasn't worth what he was getting paid. Maybe they thought no other team would be interested in him.

KC cutting him leads me to believe they also felt he wasn't worth the money. He's got his good points, running to his side, there aren't many better, imo, but everything else.... he's a headache. Pass pro, backside run plays, penalties...... teams expecting to be great should expect more than what they'll get from Eric Winston.
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Old 07-01-2013   #26
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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I don't think we should get into the habit of looking out for the player's best interests in these situations.

I think they might have gotten ahead of themselves. They knew he wasn't worth what he was getting paid. Maybe they thought no other team would be interested in him.

KC cutting him leads me to believe they also felt he wasn't worth the money. He's got his good points, running to his side, there aren't many better, imo, but everything else.... he's a headache. Pass pro, backside run plays, penalties...... teams expecting to be great should expect more than what they'll get from Eric Winston.
I think there are a lot of factors at play:

1. Eric was nowhere near as good as he thought he was.

2. The Texans want to be the sort of place where players want to come and being a team that treats vets with respect is part of that. Now... Eric felt disrespected by the team because they didn't negotiate with him, they just cut him but I suspect that the team reached out to his agent to get a ballpark of what they were looking at. When they heard it, they decided they were too far apart to even bother.

3. There may not have been any teams that were interested in Eric. We may NOT have been able to get a 7th round pick for him. We MAY have shopped him around and just gotten no interest. It certainly doesn't seem like he's getting much interest now.
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Old 07-01-2013   #27
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
The only thing I was mad about is they just cut the guy instead of working a trade. Getting a 7th rounder for him is still better than nothing.

I was not a fan of Winston.
Not every player that gets cut is worth draft pick compensation to other teams in the NFL. It's pretty obvious what the NFL thinks of Winston only one year later by him not being on a roster.

Plus that contract he had was fairly expensive for a RT, and I'm not sure anybody would've traded for that last year of the contract (He had signed a 5yr/30mil extension in 2008, was cut in 2012).
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Old 07-01-2013   #28
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

I was more focusing on whether or not we'll see a discount for our middle-of-the-road players who look good in our system.

Briesel looked good in our system. Winston looked great in run and acceptable in pass (the final season his pass-pro dropped beyond acceptable)

I don't see how you can trade a $5m contract with 1 year left, so I don't think the argument holds.

Will guys like Jones, Newton etc, the young ones coming through now, be easier to keep hold of like Ike Taylor was for the Steelers because we've built a reputation that teams can't get value for money signing our FA's at the position group.

Ike Taylor is a good comparison I think, performed well in the Steelers' D but no-one wants to pay top dollar for a player who looks good in the Steelers' D because they are known to fail to live up to that when changing scheme.

Obviously that was an exceptionally strong FA group at that position a couple of years back. Which may have contributed.

We've all spoken at length about the topics re-touched on here, but lets not forget that we appear set for the future at both guard spots and center, and at RT we have a wealth of young options from which you'd have to expect someone to step up and perform well at some point. I expect to see a big improvement on the field this coming season and expect that in a years time we'll be sitting pretty across the Oline once again.
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Old 07-01-2013   #29
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I was more focusing on whether or not we'll see a discount for our middle-of-the-road players who look good in our system.

Briesel looked good in our system. Winston looked great in run and acceptable in pass (the final season his pass-pro dropped beyond acceptable)

I don't see how you can trade a $5m contract with 1 year left, so I don't think the argument holds.

Will guys like Jones, Newton etc, the young ones coming through now, be easier to keep hold of like Ike Taylor was for the Steelers because we've built a reputation that teams can't get value for money signing our FA's at the position group.

Ike Taylor is a good comparison I think, performed well in the Steelers' D but no-one wants to pay top dollar for a player who looks good in the Steelers' D because they are known to fail to live up to that when changing scheme.

Obviously that was an exceptionally strong FA group at that position a couple of years back. Which may have contributed.

We've all spoken at length about the topics re-touched on here, but lets not forget that we appear set for the future at both guard spots and center, and at RT we have a wealth of young options from which you'd have to expect someone to step up and perform well at some point. I expect to see a big improvement on the field this coming season and expect that in a years time we'll be sitting pretty across the Oline once again.
Hope Texans soon have rep for identifying those players over 30 who can be replaced with younger guys with similar skills.
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Old 07-01-2013   #30
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Default Re: Briesel & Winston Losses

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I think there are a lot of factors at play:

1. Eric was nowhere near as good as he thought he was.

2. The Texans want to be the sort of place where players want to come and being a team that treats vets with respect is part of that. Now... Eric felt disrespected by the team because they didn't negotiate with him, they just cut him but I suspect that the team reached out to his agent to get a ballpark of what they were looking at. When they heard it, they decided they were too far apart to even bother.

3. There may not have been any teams that were interested in Eric. We may NOT have been able to get a 7th round pick for him. We MAY have shopped him around and just gotten no interest. It certainly doesn't seem like he's getting much interest now.
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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Not every player that gets cut is worth draft pick compensation to other teams in the NFL. It's pretty obvious what the NFL thinks of Winston only one year later by him not being on a roster.

Plus that contract he had was fairly expensive for a RT, and I'm not sure anybody would've traded for that last year of the contract (He had signed a 5yr/30mil extension in 2008, was cut in 2012).
TPN makes some good points and makes me remember that we don't really know squat about what goes on behind the scenes.

You made some good points too, bong.
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