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Old 06-03-2013   #101
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Says Schottenheimer/Jimmy Johnson/Shula (2 yrs after going 13-1,) Todd Haley and Lovie Smith fired this yr after winning 10 games. Firing successful HC's being fired isn't as uncommon as you might think. It is around Texans land though.

BTW, I was against firing Gary this offseason. I actually think he did a masterful job coacing a team with a hurt QB/WR and had depth issues to a 12-4 record.
Dude, weak attempt. It is very uncommon, exceptionally uncommon and then if you want to top that off show where the results got better?

Shottenheimer - now he was legitimately fired but the team benefited how? Playoff team went a few more times and then tumbled and fired the new coach.

Jimmy Johnson - please for even including this one. JJ did not get fired. Basically the Cowboys floundered since the team JJ built.

Shula - not fired - retired.

Haley - fired mid-season the next year after a WC appearance.

Lovie - hasn't made the playoffs in three years.

The only one that came close to answering my question was Shottenheimer. This shows how biased you are in your analysis. I mean seriously, you typed in Jimmy Johnson and didn't Homer Simpson yourself?
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Old 06-03-2013   #102
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I've watched keenum throw a bunch of passes and the dude throws darts. Especially on those short passes.
Same kind of qb in terms of threatning the field as schaub. He cant throw outside with velocity. U can pull up any film and u cant find a deep comeback.
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Old 06-03-2013   #103
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Same kind of qb in terms of threatning the field as schaub. He cant throw outside with velocity. U can pull up any film and u cant find a deep comeback.
jmo..... but Schaub's biggest weakness is that the play is over once protection breaks down. Fortunately for us, he's pretty good at getting rid of the ball before that happens.

There are better QBs out there at making something happen when it all goes to sht, but they're not as good before that point.

Replacing Schaub, we may very well get someone who is better when a play breaks down. I believe that's what Yates gives us & some are saying Keenum as well. Surely, Keenum can't be worse.

But there is going to be a drop off on working our offense before a play breaks down, there's no way around that. Schaub is that good, at that point. Not many better.

We've seen Yates & I agree with those who believe the drop off will be severe. From what I've seen of Case & the general expectations of him on this board, I believe the general consensus is that drop off will not be so severe (as opposed to Yates).

So not being able to throw a deep come-back won't really hurt us so much, if he can manage the offense similar to Schaub & give us some of that play-making ability.
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Old 06-03-2013   #104
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Dude, weak attempt. It is very uncommon, exceptionally uncommon and then if you want to top that off show where the results got better?

Shottenheimer - now he was legitimately fired but the team benefited how? Playoff team went a few more times and then tumbled and fired the new coach.

Jimmy Johnson - please for even including this one. JJ did not get fired. Basically the Cowboys floundered since the team JJ built.

Shula - not fired - retired.

Haley - fired mid-season the next year after a WC appearance.

Lovie - hasn't made the playoffs in three years.

The only one that came close to answering my question was Shottenheimer. This shows how biased you are in your analysis. I mean seriously, you typed in Jimmy Johnson and didn't Homer Simpson yourself?
If the team has 8 talent and they play as a 5 , the coach is on the hotseat . If the team has 5 talent and they play as an 8 , extend his contract .

JJ had 9 talent and won the SB . Jerrah and Jack ( Daniels ) undermined Jimmy .
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Old 06-03-2013   #105
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I thought this was a thread discussing whether Yates or Keenum should be #2 on the depth chart...

Where did we go off the rails?
How did this devolve into a fire Kubiak thread??
Who's responsible for this?

I think Bush did it.

Let me check with axeman and get back to you.

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Old 06-03-2013   #106
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I think Bush did it.

Let me check with axeman and get back to you.

Booo ... not in the Texans chat .
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Old 06-03-2013   #107
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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If the team has 8 talent and they play as a 5 , the coach is on the hotseat . If the team has 5 talent and they play as an 8 , extend his contract .

JJ had 9 talent and won the SB . Jerrah and Jack ( Daniels ) undermined Jimmy .
So what are you saying? That Jerrah fired JJ after winning the SuperBowl ?

Or do you agree with 'cak that JJ wasn't fired, but elected to retire?

The premise that 'cak is arguing is that it is common for 12 win coaches to get fired. JJ is a bad example of that, since he didn't get fired & his GM was not dissatisfied with the level of play from the team; i.e. the coaches job performance.
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Old 06-03-2013   #108
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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So what are you saying? That Jerrah fired JJ after winning the SuperBowl ?

Or do you agree with 'cak that JJ wasn't fired, but elected to retire?

The premise that 'cak is arguing is that it is common for 12 win coaches to get fired. JJ is a bad example of that, since he didn't get fired & his GM was not dissatisfied with the level of play from the team; i.e. the coaches job performance.
Jerrah said that JJ got to much credit and Barry Switzer could do the same thing . Jerrah was jealous of JJ .

A 12 win team who is stacked , is under performing and can get fired if they are a bust in the playoffs . It's all about the owners expectations or lack of .

Why did Bum get fired ?
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Old 06-03-2013   #109
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Jerrah said that JJ got to much credit and Barry Switzer could do the same thing . Jerrah was jealous of JJ .
Moot point..... doesn't matter. Jerry Jones did not fire Jimmy Johnson.

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
A 12 win team who is stacked , is under performing and can get fired if they are a bust in the playoffs . It's all about the owners expectations or lack of .

Why did Bum get fired ?
So you're saying there are a plethora of coaches out there who were fired after a 12 win season?
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Old 06-03-2013   #110
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Why did Bum get fired ?
Because the owner was a stupid fool.
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Old 06-03-2013   #111
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Moot point..... doesn't matter. Jerry Jones did not fire Jimmy Johnson.



So you're saying there are a plethora of coaches out there who were fired after a 12 win season?
Nope ... if I'm the owner and think we have gone as far as my present coach can take me , I'm making changes . Sometimes there's a fine line between smart and stupid and it all depends on the results .
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Old 06-03-2013   #112
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Because the owner was a stupid fool.
He also had Lad undermining Bum because he wanted to be the GM . Moon Herzeg said Ed Biles could do better than Bum for less money .
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Old 06-03-2013   #113
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Sometimes there's a fine line between smart and stupid and it all depends on the results .
OK, where are the examples of it being smart based on the results?
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Old 06-03-2013   #114
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

The stories I have heard also lend themselves to JJ retiring. If I worked for Jerruh, I would also take retiring over the alternative...............i.e., shooting myself.
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Old 06-03-2013   #115
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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OK, where are the examples of it being smart based on the results?
Off the top of my head , I don't think it's worked out in the NFL . I think the psyche of a football team is so different and each coach needs his own players . Parcells takes over a team and starts bringing in his guys who buy into his system .

I cheated some , Tampa Bay fired Tony Dungy because of playoff failures ( 9-7 ) and win the SB the next year .

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/132195
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Old 06-03-2013   #116
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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jmo..... but Schaub's biggest weakness is that the play is over once protection breaks down. Fortunately for us, he's pretty good at getting rid of the ball before that happens.

There are better QBs out there at making something happen when it all goes to sht, but they're not as good before that point.

Replacing Schaub, we may very well get someone who is better when a play breaks down. I believe that's what Yates gives us & some are saying Keenum as well. Surely, Keenum can't be worse.

But there is going to be a drop off on working our offense before a play breaks down, there's no way around that. Schaub is that good, at that point. Not many better.

We've seen Yates & I agree with those who believe the drop off will be severe. From what I've seen of Case & the general expectations of him on this board, I believe the general consensus is that drop off will not be so severe (as opposed to Yates).

So not being able to throw a deep come-back won't really hurt us so much, if he can manage the offense similar to Schaub & give us some of that play-making ability.
I agree to a certain. I agree tj probably have the best feet and arm and I think minus experiende, he is pretty good upgrade to schaub. I do think not being to throw deep comebacks, digs, and outs restrict the offense. I mean, brady cants throws same routes either, but they score a lot points except in the post season.
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Old 06-03-2013   #117
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I do think not being to throw deep comebacks, digs, and outs restrict the offense.
I meant more that it wouldn't restrict us anymore than it already does. As you said, Case's arm & Schaub's arm.... not a lot of difference.

Still, we manage to score a lot of points, even last year when we weren't playing our best offensively. I expect that to continue, especially when we get that right side of the line figured out.

Heck, if Case can get around on those bootlegs faster than the old man, we might score more points there as well.
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Old 06-03-2013   #118
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I meant more that it wouldn't restrict us anymore than it already does. As you said, Case's arm & Schaub's arm.... not a lot of difference.

Still, we manage to score a lot of points, even last year when we weren't playing our best offensively. I expect that to continue, especially when we get that right side of the line figured out.

Heck, if Case can get around on those bootlegs faster than the old man, we might score more points there as well.
A defense may have to actually respect a run from a bootleg .
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Old 06-04-2013   #119
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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[
@HoustonTexans OTAs: Team did more redzone work. Kubiak noted he liked to give different young guys opps w/1s, like Case Keenum today.
[/color]
When you get a chance to run with the 1's you have a legit shot at climbing up the depth chart/making the team.

I think this year we are going to keep 3 QB's. If one of them has to play I expect Yates to get first dibs unless Keenum just wow's in pre-season. I think Kubiak really likes Keenum though.
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Old 06-04-2013   #120
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Heck, if Case can get around on those bootlegs faster than the old man, we might score more points there as well.
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A defense may have to actually respect a run from a bootleg .
Normal zone bootleg:



Schaub's bootleg:

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