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Old 05-31-2013   #61
Honoring Earl 34
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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The problem is that "they" is the NFL as a whole.

Upgrading the QB position when you've got a good QB is hard thing to do. There's some luck and some chance involved.

People sometimes forget this but the Packers were all set with Don Majkowski. He led the league in passing one year and then had a couple of years shortened by injury. When the Packers traded for Favre, Favre wasn't expected to be The Guy, Majkowski was supposed to be it.

Brian Billick was the "offensive mastermind" who put together the awesome Minnesota offense that looked great with all sorts of QBs at the helm (Moon, Cunningham, Culpepper, Johnson, etc.) Then he goes to Baltimore and... he can't EVEN figure out drafting the QB position. The Dolphins are still looking for Marino's replacement.

I'm fine with upgrading any position on the team, especially the QB. I'm not married to Schaub and I realize he's got limitations. If we can get a guy better than him at running this offense, great. I just don't believe it's as easy to do as some people on this board think. Over the years, I've seen too many teams swing and miss on drafting QBs to have any level of comfort that ANY FO, including this one, can hit on drafting one at will. And I don't think there are any other guys out there I'd be willing to trade for that are available for trade that would be an upgrade over Schaub. I think we could probably find an upgrade for TJ/Case but I think even then the price would be too steep.
I think Ron Wulf knew Glanville hated Favre and made him an offer . Wulf drafted Favre for the Falcons before moving on to the Packers .

The only team that I've seen not stockpiling QBs was Manning's Colts . Most have some project QBs and some hold them as a commodity to trade . The Texans had Sage for awhile who had some value .

Qbs are hard because you can have talent , do great on the Wunderlich , diagram plays on a board , then get popped in the chin by a LB on your first play and come apart like a cheap rug . You don't have it .
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Old 05-31-2013   #62
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I'm fine with upgrading any position on the team, especially the QB. I'm not married to Schaub and I realize he's got limitations. If we can get a guy better than him at running this offense, great. I just don't believe it's as easy to do as some people on this board think.
QFT MSR

This is exactly where I'm at. No problem when they move on from Schaub, but until they have something that they know is better, they have to go with what they know. In 2013, clearly Schaub gives the Texans the best chance over the other QBs on the roster right now.
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Old 05-31-2013   #63
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I'm a firm believer in giving your backup QB quality playing time with the first team, when game situations allow it. It just doesn't happen, though. I think coaches think it is disruptive to the team and players.
This is a common practice which is disruptive to developing a team as a whole. Your right about starting QB's in general usually getting their way like divas on a dance floor. They love to compete & build their own resumes but risking injury & future of season by not coming out in garbage or other than essential situations plain selfish & self serving. TJ accepted his role last year but I felt for him & @ times felt Schuab should have been benched, no different than when Arian Foster fumbles.
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Old 05-31-2013   #64
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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This is a common practice which is disruptive to developing a team as a whole. Your right about starting QB's in general usually getting their way like divas on a dance floor. They love to compete & build their own resumes but risking injury & future of season by not coming out in garbage or other than essential situations plain selfish & self serving. TJ accepted his role last year but I felt for him & @ times felt Schuab should have been benched, no different than when Arian Foster fumbles.
Of course it's much different than when Arian Foster fumbles because he's a runningback and Schaub is a quarterback. The reasoning behind that is that if you want to teach an RB a lesson you can sit him on the bench for a series or two, and it's not that huge of a disruption to your offense, not as much so with a QB. I'm pretty sure if Kubiak told Schaub to come out of the game and let TJ take some snaps in live action, Schaub's not going to be the guy who stays on the field in defiance.
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Old 05-31-2013   #65
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

Yates had 3 limited opportunities in "garbage" time last year. These were all in games that we were being blown out (not in games we were way ahead). Typically in these situations, the backup has an opportunity to positively skew/pad his numbers. However, in those games, he accumulated a QB rating of 11.7.
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Old 05-31-2013   #66
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Yikes, the off-season, where verbal battles occur over two mediocre backup QBs.
I'm a big Keenum fan but I have to admit, I don't even know if we're there yet. Can a guy who hasn't spent any time on an NFL roster even be called a "mediocre" backup?

It's all waiting for us in the future. Just a few short months away and this argument will begin to be settled.

Hopefully
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Old 05-31-2013   #67
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I think Ron Wulf knew Glanville hated Favre and made him an offer . Wulf drafted Favre for the Falcons before moving on to the Packers .
Wolf never worked for the Falcons - prior to joining Green Bay in 1991, he worked for the Raiders, Bucs, and Jets, but never the Falcons. As to the idea that Wolf knew Glanville hated Favre, here's Wolf's own description of the beginnings of the Favre trade:

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When I came to Green Bay in November 1991, we played Atlanta in the first game that I was here. And they let me know that [Favre] was going to be available. So, when I found that out, that was an easy sell for me to the team’s board of directors. I came in and told them there’s this guy we can get to be our quarterback and we’re going to make every effort to do that. Hopefully it won’t cost a number one pick, but if it does, we have two. And they went with me on it because I prepped them so much about it.
LINK
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Old 05-31-2013   #68
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Wolf never worked for the Falcons - prior to joining Green Bay in 1991, he worked for the Raiders, Bucs, and Jets, but never the Falcons. As to the idea that Wolf knew Glanville hated Favre, here's Wolf's own description of the beginnings of the Favre trade:


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Well, I stand corrected. Maybe they did see Favre as the Guy to take over for the Majic Man. I don't think they expected it to happen as quickly as it did, though.
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Old 05-31-2013   #69
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Well, I stand corrected. Maybe they did see Favre as the Guy to take over for the Majic Man. I don't think they expected it to happen as quickly as it did, though.
They might not have. It could also be that they believed that the injury Majkowski suffered in 1990 was one he'd have a hard time ever fully recovering from. The thing that says the most to me about their ultimate intent for Favre was the fact they gave up a first rounder for him.
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Old 05-31-2013   #70
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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I'm a firm believer in giving your backup QB quality playing time with the first team, when game situations allow it. It just doesn't happen, though. I think coaches think it is disruptive to the team and players.
I think we take for granted how delicate team chemistry really is.

Ours is still a young team & we've seen how young teams give games away. The Rams, the Lions, the Colts, the Texans... thankfully Kubiak's conservatism or whatever helped us to lose only four games.
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Old 05-31-2013   #71
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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They might not have. It could also be that they believed that the injury Majkowski suffered in 1990 was one he'd have a hard time ever fully recovering from. The thing that says the most to me about their ultimate intent for Favre was the fact they gave up a first rounder for him.

Exactly. I'd forgotten what they'd given up to get him. I remember him being a semi-surprise 2nd rounder and then Wolf really wanted him.

But giving up a 1st rounder to get him implies they had high hopes for him.
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Old 05-31-2013   #72
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

If the goal is to win a SB then Schaub isn't the guy. (Due to injury) IMHO

So every yr Schaub remains the QB is a yr wasted. It's a yr a potential yong QB could be learning his trade on the field.
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Old 05-31-2013   #73
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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If the goal is to win a SB then Schaub isn't the guy. (Due to injury) IMHO

So every yr Schaub remains the QB is a yr wasted. It's a yr a potential yong QB could be learning his trade on the field.
Kinda like when the Oilers traded Moon to Minnesota so Cody Carlson could be the starter? Yeah, that worked out well. Let's follow that model.
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Old 05-31-2013   #74
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Kinda like when the Oilers traded Moon to Minnesota so Cody Carlson could be the starter? Yeah, that worked out well. Let's follow that model.
Or kind of like when Tampa traded Steve Young so Vinny Testaverde could be the starter. NOTE: I'm not disagreeing with you as much as pointing out the silliness of your retort. Teams make mistakes all the time with QBs and you never really know what you have until they're out on the field.
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Old 06-01-2013   #75
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Kinda like when the Oilers traded Moon to Minnesota so Cody Carlson could be the starter? Yeah, that worked out well. Let's follow that model.

Give me great or terrible.

Shoot for the moon, identify a franchise QB in next yrs draft and then trade what ever is necessary to get said QB. It's all about risk/reward.

Mediocrity is a terrible place to be.
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Old 06-01-2013   #76
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Or kind of like when Tampa traded Steve Young so Vinny Testaverde could be the starter. NOTE: I'm not disagreeing with you as much as pointing out the silliness of your retort. Teams make mistakes all the time with QBs and you never really know what you have until they're out on the field.
I don't see your example as disagreement as much as agreement.
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Old 06-01-2013   #77
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Give me great or terrible.

Shoot for the moon, identify a franchise QB in next yrs draft and then trade what ever is necessary to get said QB. It's all about risk/reward.

Mediocrity is a terrible place to be.
I'm starting to think your definition of "mediocrity" is whatever the Texans are doing and wherever they are in the standings.
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Old 06-01-2013   #78
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Give me great or terrible.

Shoot for the moon, identify a franchise QB in next yrs draft and then trade what ever is necessary to get said QB. It's all about risk/reward.

Mediocrity is a terrible place to be.
But what if they think Matt Schaub is their franchise QB?

In all seriousness.

There were a lot of people thinking the same about JoeFlacco as little as six months ago. What if Baltimore had decided, like you, that they were done with mediocrity? What if Atlanta figured they had enough?

What if Kubiak truly believes he hit the jackpot & has two franchise guys in Yates & Keenum? We're always talking how sometimes even a first round QB needs to sit on the bench for a year or more..... ala Aaron Rogers, but they normally don't get that opportunity anymore.

Well, now we've got two great prospects who've had a year & then some.

But I don't think you should be given the starting QBs job, I think it should be earned. The starter gets hurt, then you come in & make it hard to take you out of the game. Like Tony Romo, like Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Doug Flutie... Collin Kaepernick
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Old 06-01-2013   #79
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

To me, the back up qb position is a battle to watch because Schaub hasn't been the healthiest guy, and down the stretch last year he struggled. And jmo, but I'm not going to rule out a Super Bowl if Yates or keenum have to play. I don't think kubiak is just blowing smoke when he talks up the competition and mentions how far keenum has come and how he looks like a different player.
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Old 06-01-2013   #80
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Default Re: TJ Yates vs Case Keenum (Training Camp/Pre season 2013)

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Give me great or terrible.

Shoot for the moon, identify a franchise QB in next yrs draft and then trade what ever is necessary to get said QB. It's all about risk/reward.

Mediocrity is a terrible place to be.

If you think we are mediocre now what were we in the Capers/Casserly/Carr era?

Give me a break.
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