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Old 05-27-2013   #121
Rey
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Originally Posted by chenjy9 View Post
Schaub is by all accounts, not prolific and underwhelming. Going by his recent extension, I consider him overpaid/overrated as well. Most fans outside of the Texans probably never heard of him or cared to hear about him. It's just the Texans QB.
I think Hopkins is going to help Schaub out tremendously. I don't think he's the type of qb that is going to make lesser players look good. Or carry an offense to sustained success. But I do think if the pieces are in place around him he can be good enough.

Eventually I'd like to replace him with someone with more ability, but he's a good player. Chad Pennington type player.
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Old 05-27-2013   #122
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Couldn't disagree more. Texans were playing poorly offensively. 3 and outs aren't conservative and they were visibly upset with the way things were going. They even said in press conferences that they were t happy with how they played.

Texans offense may have put up some good numbers, but they underachieved last year. They'll be the first to tell you that. They didn't suck, but not sucking isn't the goal anymore. If our aim is winning a Super Bowl, we need to forget about what we used to be. We can no longer compare this team to the old texans. The measuring stick has gone higher. The goals are different. With the players and pro bowlers we have offensively and everyone was healthy, we should dominate defenses. Doing ok, not looking so bad, doing enough to get by is not cool anymore. Especially in today's nfl where the rules favor the offenses.

Offensively our goal should be to come out and impose our offensive will on MOST teams we face. That doesn't mean Schaub has to be Brady, what it means is that as a total offense we need to be right up there or better than the top offenses in the league. There really is 0 excuse for us not to be.

What you're describing as an offense is what some mediocre, borderline team needs to do. Some sloppy offensive team.

Screw that. Our offense needs to come out, set the tone, let teams know that they'll have to put some points up today and let our defense play aggressive.
You mean... like the Ravens?

Seriously, dude. Through the first half of the season, we were killing people. We beat 4 of our first 8 opponents by 20+ points. We were averaging almost 30 points a game while allowing our opponents to average about 17 points a game.

That's some good damned football right there. That's championship play.

Could we have played better? Yeah? So? No team plays perfect.

Now, take a look at the last few SB winners. Did they put up the kind of numbers you're talking about? Uh... no.

One of the things that irks me is this belief that you can only win the Super Bowl if you play a perfect season. Where your offense has to come out screaming every game and have no 3 and outs and you can never punt. That's not championship football, that's fantasy football. That's Madden football.
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Old 05-27-2013   #123
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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I think Hopkins is going to help Schaub out tremendously. I don't think he's the type of qb that is going to make lesser players look good. Or carry an offense to sustained success. But I do think if the pieces are in place around him he can be good enough.

Eventually I'd like to replace him with someone with more ability, but he's a good player. Chad Pennington type player.
He's definitely a good QB and we can be in a much worse situation. Something about other QB's scrambling for first downs or keeping the play alive for something to develop downfield makes me look back at Schaub in disgust though...
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Old 05-28-2013   #124
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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You mean... like the Ravens?
No. The Ravens didn't have the offensive ability we had. Schaub has been a better QB from a production standpoint that Flacco. The Texans offense overall has been more productive.

No one said that the team had to have a perfect season. What are you even talking about there?

I'm disputing a very particular point, which was the team playing conservatively early on offensively because it was winning games. I disagree. I don't think they were intentionally conservative...I think they were underachieving....
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Old 05-28-2013   #125
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Originally Posted by chenjy9 View Post
He's definitely a good QB and we can be in a much worse situation. Something about other QB's scrambling for first downs or keeping the play alive for something to develop downfield makes me look back at Schaub in disgust though...
You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli are your basic "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.

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Old 05-28-2013   #126
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli aren't "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.
Even more so than this, I don't understand why the blame of the offensive struggles of our team is heaped upon Schaub. Our offense is run first - when the run sucks, everything else falls apart. Schaub does his best when we can't run, our weakness at the WR position is shown. We can't revert to the pass like we did in 2010 when Schaub led so many comebacks (that our defense let down). I don't know whether he was rusty coming off the foot injury and maybe a full offseason of working out will help, idk. But I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub is better this season with a full football offseason to prepare.
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Old 05-28-2013   #127
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli are your basic "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.
I really don't agree with the Newton comment. He is 6-10 because he is not on a very good team. If he was on a team like Texans and Schaub was on the Panthers, I am personally sure the story would be very different.

I never said anything about a running QB or even a mobile QB. I understand Schaub's limitations and I am not asking for him to be able to rush like Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, or RG3. I do expect him to not immediately check down or throw it away when he is pushed out of the pocket.

Brady, Manning, ect are top tier QB's. If we had one of those guys, we wouldn't be complaining about our QB situation now would we? Schaub is like Manning Lite v0.00000000001. He sucks compares to top tier QB's and that's why many want better.

I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.

First, I did not and do not play Madden. Secondly, let me ask you... where has our conservative QB and play calling gotten us? Exactly as far as we got last year with a rookie QB and desperate (IMHO) play calling.

Now, I know that this is not entirely Schaub's fault that our team completely broke down down the stretch. It is also not his fault that he is significantly overpaid. What is his fault however, is that we can't count on him to carry us to a W if we need him, well not consistently at least. As a highly paid player in a leader position, that really bothers me. Add on to the fact that he is old and capped out in improvements, he will not be getting any better, only worse. Point is, we need a QB that can scramble WHEN NEEDED to really make our offense shine, not an over the hill player who at best can only be counted on to manage the game and hopefully not screw up.
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Old 05-28-2013   #128
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.
You say that checking down on 3rd down is not going to get us wins and yet, we went 12-4 last year.

This is what I'm saying... what you believe it takes to win is wrong.

Now... I expect you're going to say that "Yeah... well... that was in the regular season and we lost in the post-season. WE ARE LOSERS IN THE POST SEASON! WE CAN'T WIN WITH SCHAUB WHEN IT COUNTS BECAUSE HE'S MANNING LITE! WAH WAH WAH. WE CAN ONLY WIN IF WE'RE THE GREATEST EVAR!"



But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)
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Old 05-28-2013   #129
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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You say that checking down on 3rd down is not going to get us wins and yet, we went 12-4 last year.

This is what I'm saying... what you believe it takes to win is wrong.

Now... I expect you're going to say that "Yeah... well... that was in the regular season and we lost in the post-season. WE ARE LOSERS IN THE POST SEASON! WE CAN'T WIN WITH SCHAUB WHEN IT COUNTS BECAUSE HE'S MANNING LITE! WAH WAH WAH. WE CAN ONLY WIN IF WE'RE THE GREATEST EVAR!"



But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)
We did not go 12-4 because of Schaub IMO. I believe we went 12-4 IN SPITE OF Schaub. That is probably the key difference between how I see things and how you see things. I saw us (Foster and D specifically) CARRY Schaub to a winning season. I went him, when the game is on the line, to NOT check down and try to develop other options. You can be satisfied with having a QB like Schaub, but honestly I don't have any confidence in him.

Also, when did I ever say we needed a HoF QB to win? What I do believe is, we will never win a SB with Schaub under center, unless our team carries him and his mistakes, because I cannot count on Schaub to not screw things up somewhere. I am not advocating that we dump him now, but I am definitely hoping the FO replaces him or looks for his replacement sooner than later.

PS

To further elucidate my point, at no point during games do I ever find myself thinking "It's OK, Schaub will be able to win this for us" or "Schaub will be able to close this game out for us." When we are close in games and not able to grind out the clock with our run game, you know what my thought is every time we march Schaub back on the field? "God I hope he doesn't eff this up!" How about when we get to 3rd and long? "Unless AJ or Foster bails us out, we are looking at another kick or field go." I don't get positive feelings or even expectations of Schaub and that really concerns me personally going into the future. Maybe some of you are still living in the nightmare of Carr and Schaub just simply seems like a godsend to you. For me however, he is one of our few weak links on this team as a starter.

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Old 05-28-2013   #130
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post

But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)
100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material, and of those two both have stupid record defenses. The 2000 Ravens, and the only team to have 3 defensive touchdowns in a superbowl.

Super Bowl XXVII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXVIII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXIX - Steve Young
Super Bowl XXX - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXXI - Brett Favre
Super Bowl XXXII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIV - Kurt Warner
Super Bowl XXXV - Trent Dilfer
Super Bowl XXXVI - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXVII - Brad Johnson
Super Bowl XXXVIII - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXIX - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XL - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLI - Peyton Manning
Super Bowl XLII - Eli Manning
Super Bowl XLIII - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLIV - Drew Brees
Super Bowl XLV - Aaron Rodgers
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Old 05-28-2013   #131
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material..
Several things... ELITE is different than a GOOD QB. And you can get into the HOF even if you're not an Elite QB. And, as I said, there are some QBs that people consider "elite" or whatever ONLY because they've won some SBs. I don't.

Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco are NOT elite QBs. Brees has good years and he's got bad years. Same with Kurt Warner. I don't consider those guys elite, although Brees was in the discussion for a year or two.

I'll give you Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Elway, and Favre. I think Aikman is a borderline case.

At this point right now, I consider Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers elite. No one else.
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Old 05-28-2013   #132
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material, and of those two both have stupid record defenses. The 2000 Ravens, and the only team to have 3 defensive touchdowns in a superbowl.
Put aside Schaub. A lot of this is chicken and egg - QB's are HOF material in large part because they win one or more SB's regardless of their merit in those SB's. Big Ben was miserable in two wins. Aikman (and I was/am a Cowboys fan) was the epitome of precision game manager (frankly Aikman is what I think Kubiak wants out of Schaub). Elway should never be brought up for this assertion since in his heyday he couldn't put the team on his shoulders and win - he got his wins off the team. Tom Brady's 1st win was on the team not him.
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Old 05-28-2013   #133
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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. Maybe some of you are still living in the nightmare of Carr and Schaub just simply seems like a godsend to you. For me however, he is one of our few weak links on this team as a starter.
I think you're still scarred from the Carr nightmare and because of that, you expect the worst.

We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.
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Old 05-28-2013   #134
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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I think you're still scarred from the Carr nightmare and because of that, you expect the worst.

We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.
Nah, it is because Schaub has not done anything to show me that we can count on him as a field leader for the team. I wasn't as much scarred by Carr as much as disgusted. I gave up completely on Carr. It was a given that Carr couldn't find his way to a W if the other team didn't slap him silly with it and even then, it was a toss up. A big part of that had to do with our lack of O-Line, but Carr was definitely less than mediocre even before becoming a shell-shocked version of his previous mediocre self.
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Old 05-28-2013   #135
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Put aside Schaub. A lot of this is chicken and egg - QB's are HOF material in large part because they win one or more SB's regardless of their merit in those SB's. Big Ben was miserable in two wins. Aikman (and I was/am a Cowboys fan) was the epitome of precision game manager (frankly Aikman is what I think Kubiak wants out of Schaub). Elway should never be brought up for this assertion since in his heyday he couldn't put the team on his shoulders and win - he got his wins off the team. Tom Brady's 1st win was on the team not him.
I think Tom's first two were on his team. He was not a very good QB back then. He was very efficient & he took care of the ball. He was on a very good team with very good coaches.

He's a much better QB now than he was then. But, he hasn't been able to win a SuperBowl since he's been able to put a team on his shoulders.
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Old 05-28-2013   #136
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.
Before last year, I thought the same way. I'd seen them do it.

But last year, several games, I kept waiting for them to turn it on & they never did. Several games last year, we were waiting for them to go into hurry up mode & it just didn't happen.

I know there must have been reasons they never turned it on & I'm always looking for those reasons, but I never came across anything that made sense to me.

& you know me, it doesn't take a lot for me to make sense out of something.
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Old 05-28-2013   #137
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

ProFootballMock is wrong for this one.

http://profootballmock.com/aaron-rod...-qb-tv-cameos/

Quote:
TOM BRADY/MATT SCHAUB: Brady eagerly agrees to bed Matt Schaub’s wife, professional cheerleader Laurie Schaub, on the ABC reality series “Celebrity Wife Swap.” Controversy erupts however, when Giselle Bündchen refuses to reciprocate by declaring that she will not go anywhere near the aesthetically challenged Houston QB. Spoiler alert: Brady eventually beds both women simultaneously while Schaub weeps quietly in another room.
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Old 05-28-2013   #138
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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I think Tom's first two were on his team. He was not a very good QB back then. He was very efficient & he took care of the ball. He was on a very good team with very good coaches.
'eh, gotta' disagree a little. Yeah, great teams, without a doubt. And yeah, won on a Vinatieri kick.

However, it was a tie game (17-17) with 1:30 on the clock and no timeouts.

Brady nailed 5 of 6 passes to move the ball down the field 53 yards, setting up that FG attempt.

It took a clutch QB to make the plays in a minute and a half, under pressure of a monumental game (dude wasn't even a starter at the beginning of the season), to be a big part of winning it. That's why he won the SB MVP, in spite of stats. It was his performance.

Bringing it back to Schaub, I do not have the confidence in him that he could make this drive to set up a game winning FG. And that, in my mind, is what separates good from great.
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Old 05-28-2013   #139
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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Bringing it back to Schaub, I do not have the confidence in him that he could make this drive to set up a game winning FG. And that, in my mind, is what separates good from great.
I wouldn't quite say "good" from "great" but rather "good" from "very good" Great QB's are able to consistently carry the team on their backs when asked to and establish confidence in players and fans that he can and will when needed. Very good QB's consistently do what their team needs to win and can be counted on to not mess up usually when pressured. Good QB's are QB's that can usually help their team not lose by typically doing their jobs correctly.

When Schaub is pressured mentally, I anticipate failure from him. I anticipate underthrown passes interceptions. When we are done or need a clutch performance, I never look to Schaub or even consider him outside a desperate prayer of "Please don't screw up Schaub!" He is just far too limited to begin with and IMO, very weak mentally. Basically, to me he is not a leader on the field, but another soldier.
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Old 05-29-2013   #140
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Default Re: Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

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I really don't agree with the Newton comment. He is 6-10 because he is not on a very good team. If he was on a team like Texans and Schaub was on the Panthers, I am personally sure the story would be very different.

I never said anything about a running QB or even a mobile QB. I understand Schaub's limitations and I am not asking for him to be able to rush like Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, or RG3. I do expect him to not immediately check down or throw it away when he is pushed out of the pocket.

Brady, Manning, ect are top tier QB's. If we had one of those guys, we wouldn't be complaining about our QB situation now would we? Schaub is like Manning Lite v0.00000000001. He sucks compares to top tier QB's and that's why many want better.

I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.

First, I did not and do not play Madden. Secondly, let me ask you... where has our conservative QB and play calling gotten us? Exactly as far as we got last year with a rookie QB and desperate (IMHO) play calling.

Now, I know that this is not entirely Schaub's fault that our team completely broke down down the stretch. It is also not his fault that he is significantly overpaid. What is his fault however, is that we can't count on him to carry us to a W if we need him, well not consistently at least. As a highly paid player in a leader position, that really bothers me. Add on to the fact that he is old and capped out in improvements, he will not be getting any better, only worse. Point is, we need a QB that can scramble WHEN NEEDED to really make our offense shine, not an over the hill player who at best can only be counted on to manage the game and hopefully not screw up.
Well, since all the arguments I was going to make regarding Schaub vs. other perceived "elite" QBs have already been pointed out by TPN, I-Cak, and TK, there's no need to repeat them.

I will add this. Schaub was picked by Kubiak to run his system. An offense that does not rely on stellar QB play to produce wins. Up in Denver, Kubiak watched for years as one of the premier QBs of his time failed time after time to win a championship. There's no doubt, I would hope, that Elway had all the tools; laser-rocket arm, elusiveness to extend plays with his legs, and the steely nerve and focus to bring his team back from behind for wins time and time again.
BUT that was not enough.
Until Elway (and by association, Kubiak) got a "horse" at RB that the other team had to respect he couldn't get a ring. Elway had had solid defenses before but never that signature running game. Three trips to the Super Bowl, three beatdowns. Only one of which was against an elite-level QB, Joe Montana in SB XXIV. The other two were against Phil Simms and Doug Williams. You tell me if either of those guys are elite QBs or simply efficient system guys.

I bring this up because I think that experience gave Kubiak the mindset that a balanced attack featuring solid running attack in combo with a respectable passing attack is more apt to lead to championships than an elite stud at QB.

I will say this, the QB in Kubiak's system has to be smart enough to recognize mismatches and effective enough to get the ball to the guys who can make plays and exploit the mismatches. When Schaub is on his game, he's that guy. When he isn't... he does what Kubiak calls "leaving plays/points on the field". That kinda crap is what we saw from Schaub in Dec/Jan and has to be minimized or Schaub will be replaced.
You can count on that.
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