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Old 05-24-2013   #161
Texans_Chick
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
I doubt he'll have a breakout year as well but still not seeing where he has to. Just like you brought up the defense played poor when Cody was out but Cody could have been healthy it wouldn't have mattered. He wouldn't have been on the field anyway but partially. The NT is not out there for the spread formations so his presence would have meant little hence what I disagree on. Plus Mitchell's grades in those games were actually positive. In fact, he has had more positive graded games than Cody.

Even in 2011 in a possible 1168 defensive snaps Cody got only 451. I would say the fact time was shared means Mitchell actually did show the coaches something otherwise he wouldn't have seen so much time. When Cody was down did Mitchell have to share time? Nope because no one else warranted it except spot duty.

Since we're talking PFF:

2011 Cody ranked 62nd among DT/NT Overall grade -2.8
2011 Mitchell ranked 64th among DT/NT Overall grade -3.4

Not much difference there.

2012 Cody ranked 63rd Overall grade -4.0
2012 Mitchell ranked 47th Overall grade 1.8

So actually Mitchell's PFF grade did improve unless you're going back to the time before Wade. I'm only focusing on the time with Wade here in a new defensive approach and a coach who actually knows how to tie his shoes unlike the previous incarnations we had here lol.

In any case it illustrates an actual improvement on Mitchell's part. Plus I guess I just find the whole Cody thing a reach. He wasn't good. He was a below average guy in this defense that had a moment here and there so I just can't see how Mitchell can't do the same thing. He already has actually so to me the only difference is we had two servicable guys at the spot where as now we only have one that we know of.

Guess comes down to how you want to view it. Are you looking for a heavy impact guy or someone servicable? Cody was only servicable and I am probably being generous saying that. I don't expect Mitchell to be anything more than that. Anything more is gravy which always is a good topping.

Anyway, nice talk! Feel like I drag it off topic lol. Thanks for the updates from all by the way.
Yeah, I think we mostly agree. That there isn't going to be a breakout Mitchell season. The reason why I mentioned it was because I heard some media person talk about how great Mitchell looked and breakout season this and that, and I was wondering where that was coming from.

I think the idea of two serviceable guys to one serviceable guy and a bunch of question marks is a concern.

Can't find the quote, but I also believe that Wade talked about the difficulty of having fewer guys available for a defensive rotation when Cody was out. And that they were better when he became available.
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Old 05-24-2013   #162
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Can't find the quote, but I also believe that Wade talked about the difficulty of having fewer guys available for a defensive rotation when Cody was out. And that they were better when he became available.
Kind of off subject, but ties into the d-line rotation. What are your impressions of Delano Johnson at DE thus far? I have read that he is impressing some w/ his transition, but do you believe he's capable of earning a roster spot? I realize the pads will show the true story, but if Delano gets into the DE rotation could they possibly use Crick at NT since he is being reported to have beefed up to 295lbs & some have repotted that he could be used there in a pinch. Crick could lessen the dependence on a rookie in the rotation at NT.
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Old 05-24-2013   #163
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Kind of off subject, but ties into the d-line rotation. What are your impressions of Delano Johnson at DE thus far? I have read that he is impressing some w/ his transition, but do you believe he's capable of earning a roster spot? I realize the pads will show the true story, but if Delano gets into the DE rotation could they possibly use Crick at NT since he is being reported to have beefed up to 295lbs & some have repotted that he could be used there in a pinch. Crick could lessen the dependence on a rookie in the rotation at NT.
I haven't spent the time I want watching the dlinemen because I've focused more on QB, WR, secondary. Will work on next week.

I'm guessing it will hard to say definitively in shorts. With WR/secondary, you can gauge play a little easier because a lot of what they do isn't supposed to have a ton of contact.
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Old 05-24-2013   #164
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

What's the guys name at DE who went out on IR last year, the 3rd or 4th year guy, Tom Jamison ? Apparently he's still rehabbing as it seems he's not back on the field yet, atleast I'm not hearing any reports about him during these OTAs ?
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Old 05-24-2013   #165
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

I'm not really worried about Earl Mitchell or whoever ends up lining up at NT. It wasn't inside that JJ needed help from to avoid double and triple teams, it was outside. The OLB's really let us down last year
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Old 05-24-2013   #166
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

Have to run away soon, but my Day 3 report is fixing to go live on the Chron website. Waiting for editor. Maybe up within 30 minutes?

Later!
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Old 05-24-2013   #167
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
What's the guys name at DE who went out on IR last year, the 3rd or 4th year guy, Tom Jamison ? Apparently he's still rehabbing as it seems he's not back on the field yet, atleast I'm not hearing any reports about him during these OTAs ?
From 3 weeks ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Any news on Tim Jamison's ACL?
I don't think I've heard a blip on that end.
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I wish it WERE an ACL. It was an Achilles though. No word I've seen. But I would be skeptical as to how much production he would show before the latter part of the season.........and would have to worry about the level of production beyond that. I don't remember reports of him undergoing surgery for it. I hope that they did not opt for nonoperative rehab.....the re-rupture rate and rate of successful recovery is not acceptable
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Old 05-24-2013   #168
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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by mussop
Cody was below average and yet Mitchell never could beat him out. That should tell you all you need to know.
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Tells me you're not on the same page with Wade.
Would that be the same Wade that started Cody over Mitchell all that time? Neither are all that great, but are stop-gap until the Texans no longer have more pressing needs.

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I'm not really worried about Earl Mitchell or whoever ends up lining up at NT. It wasn't inside that JJ needed help from to avoid double and triple teams, it was outside. The OLB's really let us down last year
Definitely onboard with this. Barwin was "ineffective" at best.
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Old 05-24-2013   #169
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Would that be the same Wade that started Cody over Mitchell all that time? Neither are all that great, but are stop-gap until the Texans no longer have more pressing needs.

Definitely onboard with this. Barwin was "ineffective" at best.
Kind of contrasting statements.

Barwin did nothing all last year and yet no one else was really given a chance. I understand Merciless was a rookie last year, but he didn't start taking reps away from Barwin really...No one else got a chance either.

I think Braman can do more on the edge that Barwin or Reed and he's not really been given a chance until this off season.

Barwin and Reed did almost nothing last year and no one really got a chance to replace them.

Shilo Keo was kept on the roster over Troy Nolan. Yet when we picked up Nolan again due to Demps injury, Nolan played over Keo.

There are a lot of politics on a football team and sometimes there are more talented players waiting in the weeds that just aren't given the chance. We see it all the time.

Now, I know Earl has played some, but he hasn't been the man at the position before. The fact that he wasn't given a chance to start ahead of Cody is hardly evidence that he's not a better player or won't become a better player now that he will get more snaps.

And if you're going to look at the coaches actions as evidence, who exactly is your starting NT right now? Cody was not brought back and no one else of significance was added. They didn't draft one high in the draft. Didn't sign any Free agents.


My opinion is that Earl will be a good NT. A plus player. I think Cody held the point better than Mitchell because he had better leverage. But I don't thin Earl sucks in that regard. But in every other aspect, I think Earl is superior. He's a far better pass rusher, and he's much better at making plays down the line. He's more active at the position than Cody was. I don't know if he's going to be a super star....But I do think he's going to be good.
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Old 05-24-2013   #170
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Now, I know Earl has played some, but he hasn't been the man at the position before. The fact that he wasn't given a chance to start ahead of Cody is hardly evidence that he's not a better player or won't become a better player now that he will get more snaps.

And if you're going to look at the coaches actions as evidence, who exactly is your starting NT right now? Cody was not brought back and no one else of significance was added. They didn't draft one high in the draft. Didn't sign any Free agents.
The bolded is pretty good evidence that he wasn't a better player LAST year than Cody. As for the rest, I'm certain Mitchell IS the current starter, but that doesn't mean he's improved appreciably yet. The fact that they didn't sign an NT or pick up a good veteran one in free agency is proof only that the Texans had other higher priorities.

I think you're equating roster / contract moves with who gets to start on your final 53. They aren't remotely similar. Do we really think the RT rotation last year was more effective without Winston?
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Old 05-24-2013   #171
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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The bolded is pretty good evidence that he wasn't a better player LAST year than Cody.
No, that's evidence that the coaches wanted Cody to start because they felt like he was the better option to start.

You think when Arian was not playing when he got here the other backs on the roster were better than him? Or were they who the coaches trusted more at that time?

I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden when Arian played against NE he magically became a better player than the guys that were ahead of him all year.
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Old 05-24-2013   #172
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Do we really think the RT rotation last year was more effective without Winston?
That's the point. The coaches are wrong sometimes. Just because they feel they have other viable options or just because they start another guy doesn't mean that it's the correct decision.

That's exactly my point. The fact that Cody started over Mitchell proves nothing other than the coaches that makes those decisions felt Cody should be the starter last year.

Sometimes when you are too close to a situation you make decisions on other things beyond actual performance.
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Old 05-24-2013   #173
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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No, that's evidence that the coaches wanted Cody to start because they felt like he was the better option to start.
Yes, that's called being better.

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That's the point. The coaches are wrong sometimes. Just because they feel they have other viable options or just because they start another guy doesn't mean that it's the correct decision.
Evidently, you missed the point entirely. That confusing player effectiveness with roster / contract moves. Hard choices have to be made sometimes. I seriously doubt the coaches were telling Rick Smith "Cut Winston, we'll be better off without him".
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Old 05-24-2013   #174
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Yes, that's called being better.
No, I think I outlined it correctly.

Quote:
Evidently, you missed the point entirely. That confusing player effectiveness with roster / contract moves. Hard choices have to be made sometimes. I seriously doubt the coaches were telling Rick Smith "Cut Winston, we'll be better off without him".
Evidently you're missing the point. And I like how you completely ignored my Arian Foster example as well as countless other examples that I shouldn't have to name of better players sitting behind players that started.

It's the same reason you have good players taken in the draft in the later rounds and top players taken that are bust. The same reason you have undrafted Free agents go on to have great careers.

Your logic is silly. I can see if you want to debate actual points regarding their performances, but resorting to the "well the coaches didn't start him" card is kinda weak. This is a message board. We're all aware that the coaches have more information and knowledge than the rest of us, but that doesn't mean their moves are gospel.
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Old 05-24-2013   #175
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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The fact that they didn't sign an NT or pick up a good veteran one in free agency is proof only that the Texans had other higher priorities.
Right. And with the defense going into the 3rd season under Wade, the NT position has not been a high priority. So as a fan, I'm not going to get that worried about a position the team is not overly concerned with. The Texans have not been dominated on the ground, and the NT comes off the field on passing downs.

Having said that, I have a good feeling about this Chris Jones. Maybe he will be what so many are looking for at NT?
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Old 05-24-2013   #176
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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That's the point. The coaches are wrong sometimes. Just because they feel they have other viable options or just because they start another guy doesn't mean that it's the correct decision.
Correct.

See: Unitas, John Constantine

See: Blanda, George Frederick
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Old 05-24-2013   #177
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Evidently you're missing the point. And I like how you completely ignored my Arian Foster example as well as countless other examples that I shouldn't have to name of better players sitting behind players that started.
We've had this conversation before but...

Arian is a HORRIBLE example.

He, himself, said that he was in a bad place after not being drafted. When he was put on the practice squad, he gave up and stopped really trying because he thought he didn't have a real chance of playing.

Then when he saw a PS player on MNF get called up, he had a talk with Kubiak and he rededicated himself. As the season went on, he learned the playbook and when he was ready, they started giving him some snaps.

Was Arian more talented than Chris Brown and Ryan Moats? Yeah. Was he ready to play? No.

Also, you make it sound like Arian was just put in the last game of the season and that's not what happened. He was activated for the Titans. Then he saw some action against the Seahawks and he didn't look good. Then they put him in against the Rams and what did he do? He fumbled.

THEN he had a good day (97 yards, 1 TD) against the Dolphins and he finished up with a good day against the Patriots.

They worked him in slowly because he wasn't ready. Not because of some bias against rookies.
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Old 05-24-2013   #178
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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We've had this conversation before but...

Arian is a HORRIBLE example.

He, himself, said that he was in a bad place after not being drafted. When he was put on the practice squad, he gave up and stopped really trying because he thought he didn't have a real chance of playing.

Then when he saw a PS player on MNF get called up, he had a talk with Kubiak and he rededicated himself. As the season went on, he learned the playbook and when he was ready, they started giving him some snaps.

Was Arian more talented than Chris Brown and Ryan Moats? Yeah. Was he ready to play? No.
I think that makes Arian the perect example. Who knows why Mitchell didn't start? Maybe Wade had it against him or eating the last chicken wing. Maybe he didn't "push" enough.

I heard Kollar say even though Mitchell didn't start, he had as many snaps as Cody, meaning they probably saw it as a 1a & 1b kind of thing.
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Old 05-24-2013   #179
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Tells me you're not on the same page with Wade.
No coach is perfect. I think he is gambling with Mitchell and the NT position as a whole and there is a better than good chance that its going to backfire on him.

This whole "the NT comes out on passing downs" craze is just plain silly. Did Jay Ratliff come out on passing downs? I guarantee you if Wade had a really good NT he wouldn't come out on passing downs. The fact that Wade pulls them here just shows that our NT's (Cody and Mitchell) are nothing more than serviceable.

He'll Mitchell 's best attribute is supposed to be his ability to penetrate. Yet he comes out on passing downs. You guys drink your Mitchell juice all you want. I'm going to wait till be shows me something consistently in games before I stop worrying about the middle of our defense.
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Old 05-24-2013   #180
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Default Re: Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).

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I think that makes Arian the perect example. Who knows why Mitchell didn't start? Maybe Wade had it against him or eating the last chicken wing. Maybe he didn't "push" enough.

I heard Kollar say even though Mitchell didn't start, he had as many snaps as Cody, meaning they probably saw it as a 1a & 1b kind of thing.
Arian is a horrible example of someone who should have been playing earlier in the season.
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