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View Poll Results: How do you grade the second selection of the third round?
A 22 28.57%
B 33 42.86%
C 14 18.18%
D 5 6.49%
F 3 3.90%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-12-2013   #121
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Delano Johnson has beefed up to 290 lbs. and moved from outside linebacker to defensive end. Johnson is an athletic and powerful player who showed some of that skill set today. On the practice squad last season, Johnson has been a sleeper for us and has a chance to stick with this team if he can get the position down quickly before camp opens.

Looks like you can add Johnson to the DE group now. He was one of those tweener LB's in size, 265lbs, last season & it looks like he made the conversion. I think this could always be an option for Montgomery in the future as well if LB doesn't pan out. Im not a big fan of this pick, but there are options if he can't cut it at LB. Time will tell. I thought Johnson showed some potential last season so it will be interesting to see what he can do at DE & if he can push Jamison & Crick.
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Old 05-12-2013   #122
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

Check out the radio 610 podcast with the interview of Wade Phillips. He basically said not to worry about Montgomery handling pass coverage as a LB in his defense because requirements in that phase of LB, even the strong-side backer over the TE, are minor and just require dropping out into the flat now and then. So Wades not the least bit concerned about this and if that's the case sounds like a non-issue to me.
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Old 05-12-2013   #123
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Didn't realize that we had Delano Johnson bulk up to 290.

Checked back to last season and during the draft he was 266 playing OLB. He's now 290 and playing DE.

Will be interesting to see if he can make the 53 man roster.
I'll be looking for him when the preseason starts. 20lbs in a years time.... yeah, it's doable, & it's possible to do it the right way, packing on muscle. But my first thoughts are he's probably gotten a little pudgy.

We'll see.
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Old 05-12-2013   #124
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Check out the radio 610 podcast with the interview of Wade Phillips. He basically said not to worry about Montgomery handling pass coverage as a LB in his defense because requirements in that phase of LB, even the strong-side backer over the TE, are minor and just require dropping out into the flat now and then. So Wades not the least bit concerned about this and if that's the case sounds like a non-issue to me.
I realize Wade is a defensive genius who has made a good living & built a solid reputation as a DC based on his knowledge & information, but it was very apparent last season that our LB's were abused in coverage in certain games last season. Wade may say its not important, but I tend to believe otherwise based on the fact that our LB's were exposed & in certain games Wade had issues stopping the bleeding. If Montgomery is in there & he has issues in coverage, I'm sure the opposition will attempt to find ways to expose it very similar to what NE did by swinging their RB's out wide & isolating our LB on them 1on1 which led to big gains. I think its a bigger issue then Wade leads on imho.

Let's not forget Wade & Herring also said Bradie James could successfully replace DeMeco Ryans. I think they were completely wrong on that assumption. So an occasional misread could happen w/ even them. I'm not a big fan of the Montgomery pick as I said earlier, but time will tell & hopefully he pans out. If not, gain some weight & go to DE is always a good plan B.
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Old 05-12-2013   #125
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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I realize Wade is a defensive genius who has made a good living & built a solid reputation as a DC based on his knowledge & information, but it was very apparent last season that our LB's were abused in coverage in certain games last season. Wade may say its not important, but I tend to believe otherwise based on the fact that our LB's were exposed & in certain games Wade had issues stopping the bleeding. If Montgomery is in there & he has issues in coverage, I'm sure the opposition will attempt to find ways to expose it very similar to what NE did by swinging their RB's out wide & isolating our LB on them 1on1 which led to big gains. I think its a bigger issue then Wade leads on imho.
I'm sure Wade would love to have an All-Pro at every position, however he's in a position now where he's got to start cooking with what he's got. It doesn't do anybody any good for him to say, "Well, the situation isn't ideal, but we've got to do the best with what we've got."

& while I recall the Patriots giving us a hard time, both times, it was more about their hurry up, fast paced, snap it when they aren't looking offense than it was about "catching us" in a bad situation. If we had an Ed Reed out there telling everyone to shut up & get ready, could have been a totally different ball game.

Besides, right after the draft Herring said if he can't handle the coverage assignments, he'll be switched to the weakside.
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Old 05-12-2013   #126
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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& while I recall the Patriots giving us a hard time, both times, it was more about their hurry up, fast paced, snap it when they aren't looking offense than it was about "catching us" in a bad situation. If we had an Ed Reed out there telling everyone to shut up & get ready, could have been a totally different ball game.
Exactly.

What bothered me about our defense against the Patriots was that we're so strongly SAM/WILL oriented that whenever the Patriots shifted a TE, we had to shift our front seven. Lots of times, we didn't seem ready when the ball was snapped.

At least, that's what I felt like while watching those games. I have to admit, I haven't gone back and re-watched them.
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Old 05-12-2013   #127
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
I realize Wade is a defensive genius who has made a good living & built a solid reputation as a DC based on his knowledge & information, but it was very apparent last season that our LB's were abused in coverage in certain games last season. Wade may say its not important, but I tend to believe otherwise based on the fact that our LB's were exposed & in certain games Wade had issues stopping the bleeding. If Montgomery is in there & he has issues in coverage, I'm sure the opposition will attempt to find ways to expose it very similar to what NE did by swinging their RB's out wide & isolating our LB on them 1on1 which led to big gains. I think its a bigger issue then Wade leads on imho.

Let's not forget Wade & Herring also said Bradie James could successfully replace DeMeco Ryans. I think they were completely wrong on that assumption. So an occasional misread could happen w/ even them. I'm not a big fan of the Montgomery pick as I said earlier, but time will tell & hopefully he pans out. If not, gain some weight & go to DE is always a good plan B.
If NE goes to a game plan of throwing to their DBS in the flat to exploit olb's that may may not be in coverage, that'd be sweet.

Also, bradie was brought in to be ilb#2. He was forced to try to do more because of injuries.
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Old 05-13-2013   #128
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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If NE goes to a game plan of throwing to their DBS in the flat to exploit olb's that may may not be in coverage, that'd be sweet.

Also, bradie was brought in to be ilb#2. He was forced to try to do more because of injuries.
Most could see Bradie James was not what was advertised by Herring & Wade during the preseason which was prior to any injury issues the team had. It was well documented that both coaches were high on James & that he could replace Ryans effectively. That was proven 100% wrong imo. My point was simply that it was a mistake & that just because they say something doesn't necessarily mean it is golden & completely true. We all know that the LB's do need to be able to cover & last season had of examples of what could happen if they cannot. Reed was injured while in coverage & NE did expose our LB coverage by putting their RB's in motion & it happened more then once. Montgomery will need to cover at some point & it seems many realize that because it wouldn't be worth noting or discussing on how he is performing in that area despite Wade & the defensive staff downplaying the issue.

As far as NE, it was pretty clear that they had plenty of options on how to attack & defeat our Texans. Isolating the LB's 1on1 against the RB's in open space was just one. Heck, they even effectively used play action against us which they see in practice regularly. I don't believe Reed alone fixes all of those issues, but he does help IF he can stay healthy.
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Old 05-13-2013   #129
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Most could see Bradie James was not what was advertised by Herring & Wade during the preseason which was prior to any injury issues the team had. It was well documented that both coaches were high on James & that he could replace Ryans effectively. That was proven 100% wrong imo. My point was simply that it was a mistake & that just because they say something doesn't necessarily mean it is golden & completely true.
Lets be serious here.

Bradie James has never been as good as Demeco Ryans. Why would he be able to be as good as him on the downside of his career?

The problem with Demeco was his playing time and production didn't justify his contract.

Bradie James was brought in to be a second or third ILB. Not the everydown guy he ended up having to be.

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As far as NE, it was pretty clear that they had plenty of options on how to attack & defeat our Texans. Isolating the LB's 1on1 against the RB's in open space was just one. Heck, they even effectively used play action against us which they see in practice regularly. I don't believe Reed alone fixes all of those issues, but he does help IF he can stay healthy.
I disagree on your assessment of the OLB's in pass coverage. Yeah, there might be a time or two where they are covering down field, but for the most part it's coverage in the flats. There hasn't been a game where a team abused our OLB's in coverage so I think that concern is misguided...JMO.

The ILB's have far greater pass coverage responsibilities. Those are the guys you see lined up on RB's when they motion out. Those are the guys that are trailing TE's up the seams.

And I don't believe Brooks Reed solves anything at ILB besides being a decent run stopper. I don't believe Brooks Reed will be on this team past his rookie contract unless he shows great improvement because I don't believe he's that good. He's solid against the run, but other than that I don't think he brings much else to the table.
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Old 05-13-2013   #130
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Lets be serious here.

Bradie James has never been as good as Demeco Ryans. Why would he be able to be as good as him on the downside of his career?

The problem with Demeco was his playing time and production didn't justify his contract.

Bradie James was brought in to be a second or third ILB. Not the everydown guy he ended up having to be.



I disagree on your assessment of the OLB's in pass coverage. Yeah, there might be a time or two where they are covering down field, but for the most part it's coverage in the flats. There hasn't been a game where a team abused our OLB's in coverage so I think that concern is misguided...JMO.

The ILB's have far greater pass coverage responsibilities. Those are the guys you see lined up on RB's when they motion out. Those are the guys that are trailing TE's up the seams.

And I don't believe Brooks Reed solves anything at ILB besides being a decent run stopper. I don't believe Brooks Reed will be on this team past his rookie contract unless he shows great improvement because I don't believe he's that good. He's solid against the run, but other than that I don't think he brings much else to the table.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...46340616,d.eWU
The link above provides what Herring had to say after the acquisition of James & what he & "others" felt about James compared to DeMeco.

."I don't mind throwing it on the table, we're pretty pleased with picking Bradie (James) up, because we feel like we gained back what we lost with DeMeco leaving, and then some, to be honest with you," Texans linebackers coach Reggie Herring said Tuesday at OTAs. "At the end of the day, whatever we lost with DeMeco, we feel very confident that we've regained it with Bradie." Here's the quote for those not wanting to read the whole story.

Im being real, it seems members of the Texans coaching staff...not so much. I realize you are saying James ended playing a bigger role then expected, but he was liability BEFORE Cushing's injury & after the injury it only magnified his shortcomings. I don't believe the fall off would have been that great had Ryans been the option in the middle as opposed to James. All I'm saying is that you can't necessarily buy into everything that the staff says & assume it is completely accurate of forthcoming. Herring felt James was just as good as Ryans & obviously you & I disagreed with that, but that didn't stop him from saying it & many believing it. I believe this is similar to the downplaying of our LB's needing to be able cover. Just for the record, I'm well aware of the fact that Ryans role didn't justify his pay. I never disputed that, I simply said that just because Herring & the coaches suggested he was replaced adequately by James doesn't mean it was true or accurate.

We will have to agree to disagree as far the LB's having issues in coverage because I clearly remember them giving up big gains in more then one game. Which included coverage by the ILB's & OLB's to be honest. In fact, thats how Reed was injured. Coverage is a responsibility of the LB's & if they are poor at recognizing their responsibilities & applying coverage it will be evident & exposed IMO. Regardless of the down playing by the coaches. My comparison of James to Ryans was simply pointing out the fact that you might have to take some of the things that are said, even by coaches, w/ a grain of salt.

I also believe we will have to agree to disagree on Reed. He is very young & has hardly fulfilled all of his potential in 2 seasons IMO. Judging him this early seems a bit shortsighted IMO. He does play the run well & is decent in coverage. He still has room to grow, but has shown some decent potential & does many things well. Will he be an All Pro? Probably not, but he is solid in many areas & should get better. I think he will develop into a good piece to the puzzle that eventually won't cost an arm & a leg to keep around & keep this team moving in the right direction IMO.

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Old 05-13-2013   #131
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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The link above provides what Herring had to say after the acquisition of James & what he & "others" felt about James compared to DeMeco. Im being real, it seems members of the Texans coaching staff...not so much.
Herring was talking about James' familiarity with the system and the reads to be made. He was not talking about overall ability.
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Old 05-13-2013   #132
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Herring was talking about James' familiarity with the system and the reads to be made. He was not talking about overall ability.
It could be spun that way, I guess. But I don't necessarily believe that. Saying you gained more from an acquisition compared to what you lost tends to imply as a whole as opposed to only certain aspects. James' knowledge was suppose to offset his declining physical abilities. Obviously his knowledge wasn't enough as he struggled & is now unemployed.
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Old 05-13-2013   #133
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

I tend to agree with tru80texan...I hear what Wade is saying about his system but color me skeptical of his optimism.

Most teams struggle defensively when facing teams who run spread type formations / offenses. But b/c his defenses rely so heavily on pressuring the qb and him not asking his OLB's to cover a ton is the chief reason his defenses really struggle when we face spread offenses. This is largely b/c he has to adjust from his 5-2 aggressive pressure look to a less aggressive package. See the NO game in 2011 and of course the GB and NE games from 2012. All those teams spread you out and force you to adjust and each of those games we gave up 30+ points......fairly quickly and fairly easily. That my friends is a trend....a bad trend.


Sure you can say "well, NO, GB and NE each have top 5 qbs and that was really the difference.." & to that i say "well, true...but that's kinda the point..."

If we struggle with terrible teams like JAX and DET that have below average to mediocore qbs that run spread type packages the majority of the time, we basically have next to 0 shot against teams who run those same spread type offenses and have elite qb play. If Wade (and Kubiak for that matter) insist on continuing to do what they do against mediocore teams then we'll most assuredly continued to get shred by big plays on defense and get shut down on offense at the most inopportune times. Good qbs and good teams simply won't allow you to do that...at least not as often as you may do it against bad teams.

We are now at that stage in our development where we are trying to ascend from good to great. And from here on out, we're only going to be able to do that by beating the top teams with top qbs. Adjustments need to be made & i just don't think Wade or Kubiak truly understand that.
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Old 05-13-2013   #134
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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I tend to agree with tru80texan...I hear what Wade is saying about his system but color me skeptical of his optimism.

Most teams struggle defensively when facing teams who run spread type formations / offenses. But b/c his defenses rely so heavily on pressuring the qb and him not asking his OLB's to cover a ton is the chief reason his defenses really struggle when we face spread offenses. This is largely b/c he has to adjust from his 5-2 aggressive pressure look to a less aggressive package. See the NO game in 2011 and of course the GB and NE games from 2012. All those teams spread you out and force you to adjust and each of those games we gave up 30+ points......fairly quickly and fairly easily. That my friends is a trend....a bad trend.
Couldn't disagree with both of you more.

When wade goes to his packages to defend against the pass the OLB's drop down and just become regular ol' edge rushing DE's. The OLb's have very little to do with pass coverage other than providing pressure.

The reason we struggled against those teams is because 1) they have great QB's and it's not unusual for them to play well 2) our edge pass rush has not been all that good 3) we've had trouble covering in the middle area of the field
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Old 05-13-2013   #135
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Couldn't disagree with both of you more.

When wade goes to his packages to defend against the pass the OLB's drop down and just become regular ol' edge rushing DE's. The OLb's have very little to do with pass coverage other than providing pressure.

The reason we struggled against those teams is because 1) they have great QB's and it's not unusual for them to play well 2) our edge pass rush has not been all that good 3) we've had trouble covering in the middle area of the field
And 4) our offense didn't keep up and keep the other offenses on the sideline.
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Old 05-13-2013   #136
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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And 4) our offense didn't keep up and keep the other offenses on the sideline.
A little bit of that too...
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Old 05-14-2013   #137
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Couldn't disagree with both of you more.

When wade goes to his packages to defend against the pass the OLB's drop down and just become regular ol' edge rushing DE's. The OLb's have very little to do with pass coverage other than providing pressure.

The reason we struggled against those teams is because 1) they have great QB's and it's not unusual for them to play well 2) our edge pass rush has not been all that good 3) we've had trouble covering in the middle area of the field
& again the bolded is part of the issue. He's hell bent on sending his OLB's to pressure the qb no matter what & you're not going to get away with that against competent qbs. You've got to play much more cautious and pick your spots b/c that ultra-agressiveness against spread type offenses/formations makes it hella easy for qb's to read the chain reaction..... especially if you run a ton of man coverage like we do.

You're right, we had issues covering in the middle of the field in those games...particularly in the NE games..However it was largely b/c the 2 guys that are most responsible for covering parts of the middle of the field (MLB, safety) were more often than not busy covering recieving threats 1 on 1 at the LOS or in the flats....voiding their normal area of coverage in the process and opening us up to big plays deep. That, or they were being put in terrible positions coverage wise when it might've made more sense for the play side OLB to take some of that coverage responsibility and drop back in a zone. At least then you don't get a Daryl Sharpton getting shaken out of his jock by a Wes Welker coming out of the backfield running a jerk route
But b/c he doesn't ask his OLB's to do much covering, someone has to pick up the slack.

Either way, Lots of the holes in Wade's defenses are created b/c he doesn't lean on his OLB's enough in coverage. I also doubt we'd run as much man as we do if he leaned more on his OLB's in coverage.
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Old 05-14-2013   #138
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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& again the bolded is part of the issue. He's hell bent on sending his OLB's to pressure the qb no matter what & you're not going to get away with that against competent qbs. You've got to play much more cautious and pick your spots b/c that ultra-agressiveness against spread type offenses/formations makes it hella easy for qb's to read the chain reaction..... especially if you run a ton of man coverage like we do.
I have no idea what you're talking about. 7 guys in coverage with 4 rushing is standard. Are you saying Wade should employ a three man rush and let QB's get all the time they need to read the field?

What is ultra aggressive about sending 4?
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Old 05-14-2013   #139
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. 7 guys in coverage with 4 rushing is standard. Are you saying Wade should employ a three man rush and let QB's get all the time they need to read the field?

What is ultra aggressive about sending 4?
The Texans do send a 5-man blitz often (perhaps among the most in the league); however, against the spread, they would be most likely in nickel or in dime (no OLB).

The point about the OLB being in coverage becomes moot.
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Old 05-14-2013   #140
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Default Re: Draft Grade - Round 3/2 Sam Montgomery

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I have no idea what you're talking about. 7 guys in coverage with 4 rushing is standard. Are you saying Wade should employ a three man rush and let QB's get all the time they need to read the field?

What is ultra aggressive about sending 4?
I think he's talking about always sending 5: the two OLBs and the three down lineman.
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