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Old 05-06-2013   #381
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
BTW, the Pats used those four picks on http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013-...ts-draft-picks
WR Aaron Dobson, WR Josh Boyd, CB LoganRyan, and Edge Rusher Michael Buchanan.
Sounds like a mess of pottage; no, I do not want to trade Hopkins for those guys.

Your earlier post of draft 4 or 5 WRs and hope one pans out: we already have/had a pile of Posey, Martin, Jean, Maehl, Walter, J Jones, D Jones, Anderson, Holliday, Mathis. Instead of 5 more of those lets go for someone better. If Hopkins is not better than those guys then this pick was a failure (as many picks are). But trading the pick to get 4 more JAGs is definitely a failure.

As to your argument that only spread teams need as many as 2 good WRs, I would counter that all offenses except the wishbone need at least 2 good WRs.
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Old 05-06-2013   #382
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Sounds like a mess of pottage; no, I do not want to trade Hopkins for those guys.

Your earlier post of draft 4 or 5 WRs and hope one pans out: we already have/had a pile of Posey, Martin, Jean, Maehl, Walter, J Jones, D Jones, Anderson, Holliday, Mathis. Instead of 5 more of those lets go for someone better. If Hopkins is not better than those guys then this pick was a failure (as many picks are). But trading the pick to get 4 more JAGs is definitely a failure.

As to your argument that only spread teams need as many as 2 good WRs, I would counter that all offenses except the wishbone need at least 2 good WRs.
I have you options:

If you don't like a bunch of players, trade them for future picks so that you can combine them to move put next year for a bigger difference maker.
Use the money that you would spend on your first rounder to sign a guy like Brandon Lloyd.

However, a bunch of guys don't have to be a mess.
Belichick is known to be able to pull a good player out of the piles.
Look at the WR draft history at Profootball reference .com for example; there are plenty of receivers who were drafted from the late second round through the seventh who turned out good to great.

You still have to do your homework.
A guy like Mike Wallace, for example, wasn't known to run good routes in college, but when you look up all the metrics (forty time, 10-yd split, 20-yd split, SS, 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump) they show a lethal combination that indicates an explosive receiver vertically, horizontally, and in the air.

Or you look at guys like Brandon Marshall, who also had good test numbers for his size, but wasn't a great route runner in college, and was from a small school.

Or a guy like Pierre Garçon, who had an excellent combination of those test scores, with the production to match, but also came from a small school.

Sometimes these sleepers came from an offense that was run-heavy, or that has a dual threat QB, or a poor QB, so the receiver didn't get enough chance to show case their talent.
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Old 05-06-2013   #383
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

76, I think you're completely missing the point Cak and some others are trying to make.
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Old 05-06-2013   #384
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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76, I think you're completely missing the point Cak and some others are trying to make.
I think I understand.
They got the guy they wanted.

It's just so happen that I think there are better options; that's all.
At this point in time, I'm just griping about the different options.
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Old 05-06-2013   #385
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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I think I understand.
They got the guy they wanted.

It's just so happen that I think there are better options; that's all.
At this point in time, I'm just griping about the different options.
Your different options are in fantasy land though. As stated, no one knows what offers were presented and if the Texans even had a slight interest in any of the guys you listed. The Texans got the guy they wanted. Period, point blank!

I understand you think he has limited potential, but there are much more savvy football guys in the FO who disagree with you and have done a hell of a job picking in the 1st round lately. I personally trust those guys. No offense.
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Old 05-06-2013   #386
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Your different options are in fantasy land though. As stated, no one knows what offers were presented and if the Texans even had a slight interest in any of the guys you listed. The Texans got the guy they wanted. Period, point blank!

I understand you think he has limited potential, but there are much more savvy football guys in the FO who disagree with you and have done a hell of a job picking in the 1st round lately. I personally trust those guys. No offense.
Hey, I normally agree with their picks.
The times I disagreed slightly where a guy should be picked - like Mitchell or Sharpton, whom I graded half-to-a-round later, I think I'm ahead of them.
Or when I decided on Brandon Myers over Anthony Hill, it wasn't me who was wrong.

I can go on and on, from Dominique Baber whom I saw no potential, to Nolan who I thought was very inconsistent.

In Brandon Harris and Carmichael, I figured they wouldn't leap-frog any of our CB (KJax and McCain). They are fine, but you can always use at least one of those picks at another position. I thought Cheta was a wasted pick at the time we selected him.

On Shelley Smith, I thought they shouldn't have exposed him to the waiver.
On Okam, I said I'd rather haven him slim down rather than bulk up.

I think my evaluation of the players they drafted overall is closer to their assessment.
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Old 05-06-2013   #387
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I would take a little less than what Belichik can pull off.
If that deal was there, the potential for a similar deal of slightly less value is not fantasy.

Aaron Dobson was taken by the Pats; it wasn't like he's crap that nobody wanted. You're just settling for a littler lesser receiver so you can either improve other positions and trade the remaining picks for future considerations to take a better receiver next year. Trades happened every year; it's no fantasy!
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Old 05-06-2013   #388
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Hey, I normally agree with their picks.
The times I disagreed slightly where a guy should be picked - like Mitchell or Sharpton, whom I graded half-to-a-round later, I think I'm ahead of them.
Or when I decided on Brandon Myers over Anthony Hill, it wasn't me who was wrong.

I can go on and on, from Dominique Baber whom I saw no potential, to Nolan who I thought was very inconsistent.

In Brandon Harris and Carmichael, I figured they wouldn't leap-frog any of our CB (KJax and McCain). They are fine, but you can always use at least one of those picks at another position. I thought Cheta was a wasted pick at the time we selected him.

On Shelley Smith, I thought they shouldn't have exposed him to the waiver.
On Okam, I said I'd rather haven him slim down rather than bulk up.

I think my evaluation of the players they drafted overall is closer to their assessment.
I get it 76...... You're an expert analyst. Your talents are clearly going to waste then I guess. You should be getting paid 6 figures with how good you are at what you do when you KNOW when the Texans have wasted a pick. Rick Smith needs to have you on speed dial. You're funny though man.... Please continue.
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Old 05-06-2013   #389
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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I would take a little less than what Belichik can pull off.
If that deal was there, the potential for a similar deal of slightly less value is not fantasy.

Aaron Dobson was taken by the Pats; it wasn't like he's crap that nobody wanted. You're just settling for a littler lesser receiver so you can either improve other positions and trade the remaining picks for future considerations to take a better receiver next year. Trades happened every year; it's no fantasy!
When you marry the girl you really want to marry you aren't worried about the other tramps on the market.
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Old 05-06-2013   #390
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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When you marry the girl you really want to marry you aren't worried about the other tramps on the market.
Very funny!

But for me, they are two totally different deals.

One is business, one is pleasure
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Old 05-06-2013   #391
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

What I do here is very normal.
Some fans don't like Matt Schaub or David Anderson, and they let it be known.

I like Hopkins, just not where he was drafted.
People think a certain guy is a reach or a bit of a stretch all the time.

Like Rey; he wasn't on board with the Mercilus pick and he still isn't.

He never talks about it a length, but he let it be known several times.
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Old 05-06-2013   #392
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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What I do here is very normal.
Some fans don't like Matt Schaub or David Anderson, and they let it be known.

I like Hopkins, just not where he was drafted.
People think a certain guy is a reach or a bit of a stretch all the time.

Like Rey; he wasn't on board with the Mercilus pick and he still isn't.

He never talks about it a length, but he let it be known several times.
The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.
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Old 05-06-2013   #393
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.
I got that from the beginning.

I'm not dense, LOL!

At any rate, I didn't even mean to drag this out so long.
I'd rather spend my time evaluating the rest of the guys.

But forums are supposed to be a place where people exchange ideas; at least, that's my thinking.
Like politics, I don't care who's right and who's wrong, and I don't take anything personal.

So, let's rest it here, shall we?
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Old 05-06-2013   #394
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.
What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.
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Old 05-06-2013   #395
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Not a catch in the NFL.....


But sick, sick, sick a55 one handed catch.



sick
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Old 05-06-2013   #396
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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You people be need to be proud of yourselves....





Heyba... whyba youba albaways talkaba like thatba? Bill?
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Old 05-06-2013   #397
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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The argument "WRs who were passed by 26 other teams" is inherently self-defeating. Anyone at any position picked #27 was passed over 26 times. That will lead you to: "J.J. Watt can't be any good - 10 teams passed over him. Blaine Gabbert is clearly better than Watt - he was picked ahead of him." And I don't think you want to go there.
Whoa...... didn't say the guy wasn't any good, said there were questions. Just like there were questions about Victor Cruz, Miles Austin, Tony Romo, Arian Foster, etc..... There were less questions about Jj Watt.
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Old 05-06-2013   #398
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?
I like Julio Jones, I wanted us to take him.

But... it's still too early. It's only year two & he's got a true #1 WR on the other side of him in Roddy White & a true go-to TE in Gonzales. Take those two away from him, put a couple of years of wear & tear on him... then we'll see.

I'm not saying that's the case for every one, that you've got to wait 4 years or whatever, but in his case, with the receivers & RBs on that team, it's hard to say.

Pierre Garcon.... I questioned what he would do without Reggie Wayne & the forehead. Look'n good so far. But it's hard to say when there's a lot of talent around the players.
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Old 05-06-2013   #399
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.
Dude, calm yourself. I sometimes say "we" when I refer to the Texans because I'm a fan. Big freaking deal. There's an easy way to ignore me if that's a problem. I honestly don't even know that I'm doing it when I do it.
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Old 05-06-2013   #400
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.
Yeah the NFL is a buisness... They're in the business of winning football games, so they can continue to sell tickets, and can get increased revenue that the playoffs bring and increased ticket prices/sales so I don't really understand your "He wants a certain type of player on his team" line. What "certain type of player" is that? Because from all I see, the only type of players Bob wants is players that'll help him win football games and the man does care what fans think about his team, it's why he spends so much money on his public relations.

You're also completely off your rocker if you think Goodell and the owners don't legitimately now care about safety. It goes back to the whole business thing. Ex Players offing themselves or killing other people in murder suicides is not a good public image and bad for business. The long term effects of concussions and other head injures sustained through years of playing football is threatening their entire existence. Trust me... They care. It's why they've sunk so much money into inserting programs (heads up) into youth football. If parents start to view football as a sport that will scramble their kid's brain.. parents will start pulling their kids out of the sport the same way they did boxing.. thus cutting off a pipeline for the NFL. The top athletes will be funneled into other sports like basketball or baseball and the NFL will become a sub par product.

But anyways, I'm just glad to learn that Hopkins is not a difference maker before he has even stepped out on the field, it's good to know now so I don't get my hopes up. I mean he only had 82 rec, 1,405 (twice as many as the next WR on his team), and 18 TDs (15 more than the next WR on his team) Yep, he sucks and has no shot at making a difference here. What's even more depressing is that it's not just him.. "most of this yrs draft picks" don't have a shot at becoming difference makers. What a complete waste this year's draft was.
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